Morgul-Blade Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I'm finally getting around to a reread and I have come across a line in an Eddard chapter that caught my eye. In the part where Littlefinger takes Ned to his brothel to meet Cat, he thinks to himself that they do need Littlefinger's help. The line that follows reads, "It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man he despised." To my knowledge, Ned didn't ever side with the Lannisters during Robert's rebellion, nor did the Lannisters have much part in the Greyjoy rebellion. (It is always referred to as Robert and Ned quashing Balon's rebellion). Obviously, this could merely be a reference to any man in his armies that he had a personal disdain for, but I feel like it could be referring to the Tower of Joy, or the events immediately thereafter. Has anybody else given this thought? Am I just reading too far into things? [The latter is very likely - after joining the forums it's easy to see conspiracy everywhere!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Under the sea starfish ride on the backs of seahorse to make war with crabs, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The most obvious suspect would be Jaime Lannister during the sack of King's Landing. He fought with Jorah during the Greyjoy rebellion and spent half his POVs mentioning how he had no honor years later. For an honorable man, Ned is awfully condescending towards a lot of people who don't live up to his standards so, it could be any number of people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Amey Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Ned despites the fact that a king's guard (Jamie) Killed/betrayed a man he was sworn to protect, and now he has still a king's guard protecting a king. That is like a secret serviceman shooting/betraying one president, but gets to stay and protect the other one. He Also don't like the fact that Tywin swoop in at the last minute to in Ned's mind slaughter babies and defenseless princesses and they are rewarded as heroes and a marriage. That gets on his bad side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 The most obvious suspect would be Jaime Lannister during the sack of King's Landing. He fought with Jorah during the Greyjoy rebellion and spent half his POVs mentioning how he had no honor years later. For an honorable man, Ned is awfully condescending towards a lot of people who don't live up to his standards so, it could be any number of people Yes, how terrible of Ned to have standards regarding regicide and slavery and loyalty, what an ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yes, how terrible of Ned to have standards regarding regicide and slavery and loyalty, what an ass I really don't get the taboo on slavery in a society where lords rule over the "lowborn" with near enough absolute power anyways. Regicide? What was Ned going to do? Walk into the Red Keep and ask, "Your Grace, would you please have your son return my sister?" He was every bit as sworn to that same king, so he's every bit a traitor as Jaime Lannister was. Ned rebelled when his sister was taken captive, Jaime killed Arrys when he was ordered to kill his father. It's good to have standards, and to know when to set them aside but Ned is rather hypocritical in judging others and ignoring the fact that his situation wasn't that different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeyBanana Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I really don't get the taboo on slavery in a society where lords rule over the "lowborn" with near enough absolute power anyways. Regicide? What was Ned going to do? Walk into the Red Keep and ask, "Your Grace, would you please have your son return my sister?" As Warden of the North we swore loyalty to that same king, so he's every bit a traitor as Jaime Lannister was. Ned rebelled when his sister was taken captive, Jaime killed Arrys when he was ordered to kill his father. It's good to have standards, and to know when to set them aside but Ned is rather hypocritical in judging others and ignoring the fact that his situation wasn't that different. :bs: He shows that he's not at all like this when he asks himself what he would do (and Cat) if his children's lives would be threathened like the twincest kids were by his investigation, or when he speaks of men that fought for Aerys and were probably present when his father and brother died. Does he judge or despise Rhaegar or Arthur Dayne or Barristan? Nope. He also didn't know about Aerys' intent on burning KL. Not sure why it's a problem to acknowledge that Ned had every reason to dislike and judge the Lannisters and Jorah. I really like Jaime and Jorah, don't get me wrong here, but that doesn't make them exempt from their crimes. But yes, you're right, he shouldn't have been so judgemental. I mean, they weren't as bad as he thought after all, right? Right?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis'_Barber Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I doubt Ned had a very high opinion of Roose Bolton either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I really don't get the taboo on slavery in a society where lords rule over the "lowborn" with near enough absolute power anyways. While there is little enough difference in practice a lot of the time, there's a LOT of difference in theory and mentality. While a Lord can often get away with treating his subjects badly, there is a limit, unless he's very powerful - see, for example, Roose who goes out of his way to keep his shenanigans relatively discreet. A slave cannot own property, marry or change jobs - even the poorest peasant can, at least in theory, do all those things. At its core, the difference is whether you acknowledge the basic humanity of the "lower class" or not. Slavers, as a rule, do not whereas feudal lords, as a rule, do. Exceptions occur in both camps, I'm sure - it's not like there's any particular shortage of cruel or uncaring Lords in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think it's Tywin Lannister during the Greyjoy Rebellion. Robert probably had both Ned and Tywin in his war council at several points during that war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofless Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yes. So far there'sJaime,Tywin,Jorah,Roose Any more candidates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaynsa Starne Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 :bs: He shows that he's not at all like this when he asks himself what he would do (and Cat) if his children's lives would be threathened like the twincest kids were by his investigation, or when he speaks of men that fought for Aerys and were probably present when his father and brother died. Does he judge or despise Rhaegar or Arthur Dayne or Barristan? Nope. He also didn't know about Aerys' intent on burning KL. Not sure why it's a problem to acknowledge that Ned had every reason to dislike and judge the Lannisters and Jorah. I really like Jaime and Jorah, don't get me wrong here, but that doesn't make them exempt from their crimes. But yes, you're right, he shouldn't have been so judgemental. I mean, they weren't as bad as he thought after all, right? Right?!Let's not forget that by killing Aerys, Jaime looked like he was involved with the plan of the sack, in which innocent children were brutally murdered and Elia was raped and THEN brutally murdered. Before I got a Jaime pov, I assumed he was partially responsible for those as well. Ned was being perfectly reasonable by judging Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Let's not forget that by killing Aerys, Jaime looked like he was involved with the plan of the sack, in which innocent children were brutally murdered and Elia was raped and THEN brutally murdered. Before I got a Jaime pov, I assumed he was partially responsible for those as well. Ned was being perfectly reasonable by judging Jaime. Yup, the one who is an ass in that scenario is Jaime, for feeling above explaining himself, particularly when he had perfect good reasons for his actions, not to mention knowledge of Wildfire caches that could have been very dangerous. He even has the gall to feel slighted because Ned dares to judge him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Amey Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think it's Tywin Lannister during the Greyjoy Rebellion. Robert probably had both Ned and Tywin in his war council at several points during that war. Tywin Never left Casterly Rock. ONly after the battle of Trident did he feel that the Targs day were finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaynsa Starne Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Yup, the one who is an ass in that scenario is Jaime, for feeling above explaining himself, particularly when he had perfect good reasons for his actions, not to mention knowledge of Wildfire caches that could have been very dangerous. He even has the gall to feel slighted because Ned dares to judge him!Pretty much. I mean, I love Jaime, but he was definitely being a little shit then. Guess we know where Joff got that from.Anyway, as to the OP, it can pretty much refer to any frenemy in Ned's history. Like Roose Bolton. Ned didn't trust Roose. Or the Lannisters. Maybe some other douchy Northern lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Tywin Never left Casterly Rock. ONly after the battle of Trident did he feel that the Targs day were finish. Greyjoy Rebellion: Victarion burns the Lannister fleet in port, Robert calls his banners, Ned answers. While, after the Battle of Fair Isle, the main Northern host probably make it to the sea at Seaguard and the Lannisters, obviously, at Lannisport, it's very likely that Robert planned the invasion of the Iron Islands by gathering all his generals, which put Ned, Tywin, Robert and Stannis in the same tent. Ned already despises Tywin at that point due Elia and the children, yet he has to make a common cause with him against the Ironborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Amey Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Greyjoy Rebellion: Victarion burns the Lannister fleet in port, Robert calls his banners, Ned answers. While, after the Battle of Fair Isle, the main Northern host probably make it to the sea at Seaguard and the Lannisters, obviously, at Lannisport, it's very likely that Robert planned the invasion of the Iron Islands by gathering all his generals, which put Ned, Tywin, Robert and Stannis in the same tent. Ned already despises Tywin at that point due Elia and the children, yet he has to make a common cause with him against the Ironborn true and very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singer's stew Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ned despites the fact that a king's guard (Jamie) Killed/betrayed a man he was sworn to protect, and now he has still a king's guard protecting a king. That is like a secret serviceman shooting/betraying one president, but gets to stay and protect the other one. He Also don't like the fact that Tywin swoop in at the last minute to in Ned's mind slaughter babies and defenseless princesses and they are rewarded as heroes and a marriage. That gets on his bad side. Or maybe because Ned wanted to kill Aerys personally but Jaime robbed him that right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw4950 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 ned didnt really like a lot of people. he was happiest trying to raise his family the right way in secluded winterfell. ned hated being in power and seemingly didnt understand how everyone else couldnt think the same way he did. hell, i got the impression that ned didnt even really like robert. obviously he liked the man that was his friend when they were younger and bs-ing with him as friends, but as a king, ned rarely saw eye to eye with anything robert did. part of the reason ned and robert barely saw each other after his rebellion was the fact that ned didnt agree with the way robert did things from the start (pardoning jaime and looking the other way with the mountain ect). the only thing that somewhat put them back on the same page after the sack of kings landing was them both grieving over lyannas death. to answer your question more directly, that line could mean a lot of people. looking back on it, the only person ned really seemed to relate to was stannis since he also had a code of justice and duty. with that said, ned also didnt know the main reason stannis left kings landing was because he got pissed off robert chose ned as hand of the king. there was also that whole stannis started burning people stuff too that im sure ned wouldnt have been too fond of. so, ya, ned basically looked down on or was condescending towards just about everyone outside of winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Net Nomad Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I thought Ned only hated Jorah after he sold slaves, which was well after he fought alongside Ned in the Greyjoy rebellion wasn't it? So he would have had no reason to hate him at that time. I may be wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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