Why are the Lannisters still hated so much compared to other houses?

[EddardBos]

This seems like a simple question on the surface level, but after thinking about it, I realized that there are many more likeable or at least redeemable Lannisters in the series than there are villainous ones. The Lannisters remain almost as hated as the Freys, which is strange to me, considering House Frey is essentially a pyramid scheme with plenty more villains than likeable ones. For the likeable/redeemable Lannisters, we have:

Kevan Lannister: He's the type of guy who would make a good right-hand man in any situation. He sincerely loved his wife, children, and brother, and did everything that was asked of him. He also seemingly had a good deal of common sense and knew how to deal with very difficult situations, which is why Tywin valued his council so much. The only negative thing that I can say about him is he never questioned his brother's orders even when he should have, but that is because he grew up in Tywin's shadow and was basically born to be a follower.

Jaime Lannister: We all know about his earlier faults, but I think we're going to see a satisfactory redemption of Jaime Lannister by the time the series ends. He realizes who his sister really is now and wants nothing to do with her machinations. He worked very hard not to break his oath to Catelyn concerning taking up arms against the Tullys and sent Brienne on her mission to find Sansa with Oathkeeper.

Tyrion: We all know how cool Tyrion is.

Gerion Lannister: He seems like that cool uncle that every kid likes to see at family gatherings. While almost everyone else tried to bring Tyrion down because of his physical faults, Gerion boosted Tyrion's self-esteem by rewarding him for his mental gifts. He was adventurous and had a great sense of humor by all accounts, and it's too bad he's not going to play a major part in the series.

Daven Lannister: I can't really find anything negative to say about him. I know he is a minor character, but from what I read, it seems like he has an excellent sense of humor and is extremely devoted to his family, so much so that he refused to shave or cut his hair until his father's death was repaid in kind. He doesn't show any hints of malice from what I remember, and even the Blackfish holds him in high regard, especially compared to his other enemies.

Genna Lannister: Another very minor character, but an interesting one nonetheless. She has a sharp tongue and a great deal of common sense. It's entertaining to read the passages where she bosses her Frey husband around. She has a keen eye for people's strengths and faults, and isn't afraid to criticize her family members or allies when they deserve it.

Joanna Lannister: She was apparently an excellent mother and good person. I think it speaks volumes about her personality that she was the only one who could control Tywin and that this incredibly stoic man was hurt so deeply by her death. Theories aside, I think the reason why Tywin never married again was simply because he loved her so much and could never love another woman as much as he loved Joanna.

Lancel Lannister: Sure he's a dimwit, along with being arrogant and humorless, but I think all of his major faults can be attributed to his burning desire to be like Jaime, who he's looked up to his entire life. He realized his past mistakes, but unfortunately has become overly pious to try to compensate for them. He's just a kid who still has a lot of time to change his personality, and is definitely not past the point of no return like Joffrey was. I think he's well-meaning, but just doesn't know how to deal with his low self-esteem.

Tytos Lannister: As a lord, he did a poor job, but he seems to have been a fun-loving guy who just wanted to avoid conflicts by pleasing everyone. He's not the type of guy you want as a leader, but he would make an excellent friend.

Tygett Lannister: We don't learn too much about him in the stories, but we do learn he was an excellent fighter and was kind to Tyrion. He was apparently a nicer version of Jaime.

So who do we have for villainous Lannisters?

Cersei and Tywin are the only two Lannisters I would describe as villainous, but I find many more faults with Cersei than I do with Tywin. That might sound strange, but Tywin was the man he was because of his upbringing. He grew up watching his father get laughed at by his own bannermen and having enemies defy the house, which could have resulted in the entire extinction of the house, if it wasn't for his Machiavellian actions to restore House Lannister's honor. After he dealt with that situation, he worked for a mad and insecure king who treated him like a personal servant, even though Tywin was one of the greatest Hands in the realm's history and served Aerys very well. Tywin's orders regarding the Targaryen children were inexcusable, but many of his other harsh orders were necessary to ensure stability and survival. People act like he was a dick just for the sake of being a dick, but he didn't take harsh measures because it gave him pleasure, as evidenced by him criticizing the Mountain and his henchmen for their pointless torturing and executions. I believe he told Gregor Clegane that he should have better things to do than brutalize peasants.

I can't excuse Cersei's actions because she is basically just a spoiled brat who grew up with a silver spoon in her mouth, and is still angry that she didn't get to marry Rhaegar Targaryen and that daddy made her marry someone else.

[Lord Lannister]

It's easy to hate those at the top. They novels pretty much do present them as the antagonists at first with the exception of Tyrion as the anti-hero.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

If an asshole Stark appears, would people hate Sansa, Bran or Robb? Would they say "the Starks are all evil assholes"?. Doubt it.

It's the same. The main Lannisters are presented as villainous, causing damage to our "heroes" (even Tyrion), and our main antagonist right now is Cersei.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Liars rapists and attempted child murderers and sociopaths with a lot of screen time. I don't think they get a lot of hate to be honest.

[Humble Maester]

If an asshole Stark appears, would people hate Sansa, Bran or Robb? Would they say "the Starks are all evil assholes"?. Doubt it.

It's the same. The main Lannisters are presented as villainous, causing damage to our "heroes" (even Tyrion), and our main antagonist right now is Cersei.

Cersei first, then the Great Other :P

But yeah the Lannisters we see aren't very nice in the conventional way like Starks.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

Hated by readers? Or hated by Westeros?

I don't think that anything Kevan, or even post-Brienne Jaime, can make up for the fact that Tywin, Cersei, and Joffrey are/were basically three of the most villainous characters in the story thus far.

[morticia]

Do you mean hated by the readers or hated by the other characters?

[Stannis's Lawyer]

First, there are lots of Lannister fans. Even Tywin has fans, though the Cersei fans are all probably trolls.

Second, the Lannisters are disliked compared to the Starks because the main Lannisters are all much darker characters.

-Tywin: Murderer, sacked the Riverlands. Treatment of Tyrion. Orchestrated RW. ETC

-Cersei: Well...

-Jaime: Child defenestration. Also, attitude in the first two books. And incest.

-Tyrion: Rape. Some people dislike his attitude.

-Kevan: Participated in destruction of the Riverlands

There aren't any really white Lannisters, in the way Ned or Jon is.

[Lointain]

They seem to be pretty much generally loved - it isn´t only respect fron Tywin that keep all the Westerlands loyal to them: it is thousands of years of Lannister rule - in their own lands.

And they also seem to have a lot of fans around here: Tyrion and Jaime mainly, but also some Tywin fans and, even, Cersei fans.

[EddardBos]

Cersei first, then the Great Other :P

But yeah the Lannisters we see aren't very nice in the conventional way like Starks.

Not all the Starks would be seen as "nice in the conventional way," if we knew more about them, especially Starks in any generation besides the present one. Brandon could definitely be viewed as a douche, and earlier Starks were harsh, violent, and stern people. Earlier generations of Starks were almost definitely resemble the current generation of Karstarks than the current Starks, but now it seems like a lot of the personality traits that are associated with the Starks' First Men ancestry have been smoothed out, except with Arya and Rickon, who are wild-natured children. I would attribute this to the Stark children's southron Tully ancestry.

[somethingorother]

First impressions. Is there anyway of not thinking them as villains through the first three books? Tywin is ruthless and is easily seen as the main bad guy. Jaime has no redeemable qualities and Cersei even less. Joff is a monster. Tyrion is the black sheep and seen as the only good Lannister. Its not until ASOS do you see Jaime was a hero in the kingslaying and is only now starting to be honorable. And now you are only getting glimpses of minor Lannister characters not being as awful as the main characters. The story is written so that you now think differently on previous characters.

[Raving Stark the Mad]

All that being said, I feel the Lannisters are some of the best written villains, especially in fantasy, that I have ever read. The only one even remotely one-dimensional is Cersei.

[morticia]

In the eyes of Westeros:

Jamie will always be remebered as the kingslayer, no matter what he does.

Tyrion is the kinslaying, kingslaying imp monster.

Cersei is cruel, manipulative, promiscuous and framed Maragery Tyrell, the much-loved queen. She was also blamed when KL went hungry. There are rumours she has incest relations with her brother.

Tywin ordered his band of monsters to burn, rape, pillage, murder and steal from all their foes. He is widely known for being strict and cruel in his punishments.

Kevin is Tywin's right hand man, therefore no better than Tywin.

Lancel was arrogant, and impatient before he became a pious pratt.

Joffrey was also blamed when KL went hungry, and was known for being cruel.

(These aren't my opinions, I think the Lannisters are awesome. Mainly because of how well they are portrayed by GRRM.

I don't particularly like Tywin, Cersei or Joff, but I still think they are great characters.)

[The Wolves]

Most of them are monsters that's why they're hated

[Lord Lannister]

Kevan Lannister really seemed like a decent sort to me. The proverbial man who follows orders and does his duty no matter what. When he was Regent and held absolute power he showed every sign of wanting to reign in Cersei's excesses and follies, but sadly never got the chance.

[Yukle]

Kevan Lannister really seemed like a decent sort to me. The proverbial man who follows orders and does his duty no matter what. When he was Regent and held absolute power he showed every sign of wanting to reign in Cersei's excesses and follies, but sadly never got the chance.

I agree. He was the only one I find to be good hearted. Lancel played a part in killing Robert, Tyrion raped a woman, Cersei is nuts and Jaime murdered squillions.

Kevan is a nice bloke.

[Oberyn Out]

I would strongly disagree that being a man who follows orders and does his duty no matter what is a good thing, but on the other hand I do agree Kevan seems like a nice bloke once Tywin shuffles off.

[Dofs]

For many people the first impression just did not waive off.

[The Gallows Knight]

Interesting characters who for the most part are fighting a self interested war of usurpation and have a few members with a lot of pages dedicated to them who are absolutely horrible people?

On a side note, I've always thought that a lot of times a reader's overall opinion of the Lannisters depends on their feels about Jaime. If you turned around and grew to like him you might be more likely to like the Lannisters, if he is still the knight of incest, adultery, attempted child murder, and actual murder in your mind probably not so much a Lannister fan.

[Mark Antony]

though the Cersei fans are all probably trolls. .

Whoa not cool. I don't have to think Cersei is a model citizen for her to be my favorite Lannister.