Prue Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Of course it is evil. What else can a cultural imperialist thing from the USA be? At least it is far enough away in the year from the proper dress up festival that is carnival. Although it might sadly be competing with local walk-around-with-lantern-to-collect-treats festivals such as saint Martin's day (11/11). :(This. I highly disapprove of Halloween trying to replace the St Martin's day traditions.Especially as St Martin's day had a good cause: the children carried pretty lanterns they made themselves, and had to sing a song to get sweets. And the festival is in remembrance of St Martin who gave half of his coat to a beggar. Teaching children to value charity, and that you have to work to get a reward. Halloween teaches children to disguise themselves and threaten people with 'trick or treat' to get sweets. Training to be a robber. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 This. I highly disapprove of Halloween trying to replace the St Martin's day traditions. Especially as the children at least had to carry a lantern and sing a song to get sweets, and in remembrence of St Martin who gave half of his coat to a beggar. Instead of trying to look ugly and threaten people with 'trick or treat'. This is kind of funny. When I was a kid, I lived in a very catholic town and many of the older people would make us sing or dance for our candy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prue Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I will make sure not to be home tonight. But I already bought sweets for St Martin's day. Other regions of Germany who are deprived of St Martin's day and carnival traditions are free to adopt Halloween instead, though. I don't oppose Halloween because I think it's evil per se. Just because it replaces better traditions and because it was introduced for commercial reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofless Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hallowe'en = Holy evening. The night before All Saints Day. Evil? No, of course not. A celtic holiday that celebrated the end of harvest time with bonfires and games. The belief (or pretend belief) that all the dead came back to life, from what I remember as a child in Ireland, at midnight.The devil? No. Just ghouls, ghosts and the occasional goblin. The Irish and Scots took this tradition with them to North America and instead of carving turnips to make lanterns out of they used the pumpkin. In Ireland, back in the day, there was actually no trick or treating. Just tricking! You would dress up as a ghost or ghoul and go out and annoy your neighbours. Tie a string around the door knocker and hide around a hedge and pull the string. Innocent things like that to let the adults think that the dead had risen from their graves and were out walking about.A large part of it was also playing games. Dunking for apples, trying to bite apples with your hands behind your back that were hanging from a string, etc. A lot of the games centred around apples :) Then you would have a traditional Hallowe'en apple pie. If you were lucky, your slice of the pie had a silver sixpence in it.After that there would be the bonfire and fireworks. You would throw potatoes into the bonfire and eat them charred black and steaming hot. Good times - but no mention or thought of the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 It isn't celebrated by children and families, but it's still a massive excuse to throw parties for young adults in Belgrade. Well, young adults in Belgrade hardly need an excuse to throw parties, do they? It's not celebrated at all but it does make a good theme for a party, especially when it's on a Friday like today. ;) There's no trick-or-treating, no pumpkin carving, no pumpkin carving or anything. Just costume parties and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think Halloween can be more anti-social than evil. I have no problem with young children dressing up and knocking on doors.I have no problem with Halloween parties. I have a problem with groups of kids/young adults 14+ demanding money or sweets when they can't even be bothered to dress up. often if you give them a sweet they will tell you they prefer money, and they want £ not pennies. they are often rude and somewhat intimidating - especially for some of the older generation. Most of the time they will leave you alone after swearing at you. You might get your windows egged or your plants dug up / pots broken. Being out does not mean you won't be effected. We have come home after being out for the evening with our garage graffitied mums car tires slashed, the hanging basket emptied and worst a firework though our front door. - we where so lucky that it went out. admittedly that is an extreme example, normally the worst you can expect is minor nuisances. I think its getting better here though, there is a big push for people to trick or treat only those houses that put a pumpkin in the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Then you would have a traditional Hallowe'en apple pie. If you were lucky, your slice of the pie had a silver sixpence in it. We have something like that for Christmas. You put a coin or a nut or something in a loaf of home made bread and whoever gets it is supposed to have a better luck than usual in the upcoming year. And usually the host is supposed to offer a small amount of money to buy it from the lucky finder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox Irradiata Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I am also enough of an old grouch to dislike being disturbed several times during an evening This. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Halloween is fun for kids and adults alike. I grew up friends with a girl who had been raised to believe it was evil...and every year her church put on a "hell house". I went with her one year, and that was some sick twisted shit...it even included an abortion doctor and his patient in "hell"- and people took their kids to this instead of trick-or-treating. Maybe my definition of evil is messed up, but I can't see how it is more evil to let the kids dress up and get some candy over taking them to church to see all the people who will burn in hell.My daughter is going as a unicorn and my son is going as Star Lord. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofless Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 We have something like that for Christmas. You put a coin or a nut or something in a loaf of home made bread and whoever gets it is supposed to have a better luck than usual in the upcoming year. And usually the host is supposed to offer a small amount of money to buy it from the lucky finder. We also had it for Christmas. The silver sixpenses were baked into the Christmas pudding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Not to mention what they did to Easter. Take a perfectly good pagan holiday about fertility and spring, and stick it with some ghoulish story about torture, execution, and grave robbing. Hey, don't forget the zombies! They seem to be pretty popular these days, too :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 in new orleans, it is traditional on all hallow's eve to spend one's time requesting favors in a local necropolis, rather than an inhabited neighborhood. if the unkindly dead refuse reasonable requests, it is permissible to desecrate the pertinent mausoleum. that said, the preferred favor to give to minor children, should they be so audacious as to disturb the living, is cigarettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhangel Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Ask me tomorrow morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 This was me and my kids last year, dressed up for Halloween: http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/s389/sj4iy/halloween2013_zps1b06ad8e.jpg ...I don't see how anyone could think they were evil :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted October 31, 2014 Author Share Posted October 31, 2014 Adorable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sj4iy Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Adorable! Thanks :) I thought he made a great 10th Doctor XD I am a terrible 11th Doctor, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 ...I don't see how anyone could think they were evil :/ It's because some people think that having fun in a way other than theirs is not just wrong, but evil even. Halloween is fun for kids and adults alike. I grew up friends with a girl who had been raised to believe it was evil...and every year her church put on a "hell house". I went with her one year, and that was some sick twisted shit...it even included an abortion doctor and his patient in "hell"- and people took their kids to this instead of trick-or-treating. Maybe my definition of evil is messed up, but I can't see how it is more evil to let the kids dress up and get some candy over taking them to church to see all the people who will burn in hell. In the Bible, Satan's bodycount is way, waaaaaay lower than God's. I like throwing that bit of info in conversation with overzealous Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think it's also worth noting that any British person complaining that it's evil should take note of the fact that five days later, we celebrate the torture, 'confession', and burning of an accused terrorist by recreating him in effigy and chucking him on a bonfire. And then setting of an outrageous amount of fireworks.It's started catching up recently (though I've not been in the country for last year or this so I dunno), but for most of my life, Guy Fawkes' Night was a far bigger deal in England than Halloween. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddington Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think it's also worth noting that any British person complaining that it's evil should take note of the fact that five days later, we celebrate the torture, 'confession', and burning of an accused terrorist by recreating him in effigy and chucking him on a bonfire. And then setting of an outrageous amount of fireworks. It's started catching up recently (though I've not been in the country for last year or this so I dunno), but for most of my life, Guy Fawkes' Night was a far bigger deal in England than Halloween. It used to be the pope we burnt in effigy. Halloween's been rasing in popularity for years, I do think it's peaked though, didn't get any T&T last year. Bonfire night would probably have more of an official acceptence, council run bonfires and firework displays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The witchcraft/evil connotation derives from the original pre-Christian holiday of Samhain in celtic Ireland. I assume most people know about this (and Woofless gives some description) but it was a harvest seasonal celebration -- including butchering of cattle for winter, driving the remaining live cattle through bonfires to purify them before moving them indoors for winter, and lots of propitiations in gratitude for the harvest and in hope of a soft winter. It was also a liminal celebration of the equinox when our world overlapped with the spirit/fairy world and the spirits of the dead and dangerous fairies/demons walked among us. People would wear masks and costumes to hide from these or in mimicry/mummery as part of the celebration. Like most pre-Christian festivals, it was adopted by Christianity (All Hallows Eve, literally the Eve of All Souls Day) but the pre-Christian rituals have survived stronger than the Christian theology that was overlaid on the rituals. So even though I hate righteous indignation from religious fundies, Halloween does have some supernatural, pagan roots, even if this has been completely supplanted in the US by candy and cute costumes for kids, chainsaw horror movies for teenagers and slutty costumes for adults. Of course, if they want to cancel Halloween then what about Christmas with it's celebration of the Mithras birth, the pre-Christian German tradition of evergreen trees in the home and Saturnalia parties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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