Your Strategy to Conquer this Region: The North

[Nyrhex]

It's a bit problematic with only 30,000 men... are there any reserves/sellswords to replace losses?

I attack from Essos. Braavos is my departing points, and where supply would be purchased from at first. I assume I have as much surprise as JonCon had when attacking from no-where, and that the Stark in Winterfell has no fleet (pre-ACOK, Manderly has no navy), and can only raise around ~25,000 men on a short notice (I include Robb's host, the ~3,000 Mountain Clansmen, the ~2,000 men from the Western North who rallies to oust the Greyjoys, and other garrisons from the Eastern North like Ramsay's, Arnolf's, and Hother's).

My strategy is basically: Surprise, Speed, Aggression, Propaganda. In that order.

Opening Moves:

1. Use 20 war galleys to smash any resistance and main portion of my transport fleet to land 15,000 men at White Harbor. Establish it as my new base of operations in the north.

2. Second fleet with 7,500 men is to take Widow's Watch, move along the Broken Branch using barges for supply (and transport if possible), and take Hornwood.

3. Third fleet with 7,500 men is to land men at the Weeping Water, move along it using barges for supply (and transport if possible), and take the Dreadfort.

No lord at those locations has the power to stop any of my forces, and it should play out close to how fast the Golden Company took half of the Stormlands. I now control about a third of the North, and have knocked out two of the three main forces (Manderly and Bolton).

Consolidating Forces:

4. March 5,000 men from the army at the Dreadfort, and 5,000 men from the army at Hornwood to meet up at the White Knife, at a point they could cross to the Western half of the North.

5. 10,000 men from the army at White Harbor are to use river barges and make thier way north. Both field armies are to link up at Castle Cerwyn ASAP.

The Starks don't have the men to oppose me on a short notice, especially when the two main bannermen are out of the game along with Hornwood, the forces at the Neck and Umber and Karstark are separated from the main Stark army by my forces or simply too far away to arrive in time.

Main Offensive:

6. Take Winterfell and destroy whatever host the Starks have managed to scrounge up.

7. Split army to two equal hosts who would defeat the remaining Northen lords and secure the North. One is to move north clockwise, and take Deepwood Motte, Last Hearth, and Karhold. The second host is to move south counter clockwise, and take Torrhen's Square, Barrowton.

8. The Neck and Bear Island are to be left alone for now. Too much effort for too little gain. The southern host is to secure the southern border against any forces which might try and rally at Moat Cailing to threaten White Harbor or Barrowton. Bear Island and Flint's Finger are to be taken similarly to how Black Walder took Seaguard: With hostages from the main Stark host. If not possible, they would be stormed the moment enough tranpsorts and warships can be built or transported to the Sunset Sea.

All the major houses are to provide hostages. Strong garrisons are to be established in all major holdings. I should try and balance legitimising as many bastards as possible (they are to be given seats to rule as my bannermen. With them owing thier rule to me, they are more likely to remain loyal) and having my own high ranking officers marry into as many ruling houses as possible (bastards or not), and establish themselves as the ruling elite. Think fArya and Ramsay Snow Bolton, Amerei Frey Darry and Lancel. House Stark is to be extinguished, with the exception of one female (I guess Sansa, since she is the older one), which I would marry.

This would require no fuck ups on my end, no extra luck on the Starks', and mainly playing my propaganda right if I want to keep the North.

[Bennis of the Brown Shield]

Make alliances with some other Southern lords and call my banners, and slowly start marching towards the North. Roose Bolton gets frightened, kills the Stark lord, and surrenders the region to me.

That's how it worked in ASOIAF.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

Boats

What?

[Señor de la Tormenta]

Uhm, this is really hard. I need more men.

With this numbers my best hope is to land on the other side of the wall and try to plot something with the wildings. Promise everything they want and use my westerosi knowldge to assault the wall, or ship them to the other side. Of course, they wont listen to me and probably the Starks will crash me before I can do anything. If it works use them as fodder as much as I can. Of course I would give them as much armor and weapons as I can.

The second posibility is to try to plot with Boltons and arrange with them a quick assault together either on WH or LH, in order to low the Stark forces by making one of the big houses to switch sides, and an other being crushed. Not an easy task anyway, and I lack of a step 2 anyway. Without Boltons I probably would do the same on WH, but probably fail.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Ok, apparently folks are taking that situation serious. Let's look at it:

Step one: I send my 20 warships out. Lord Manderly's 50 sink them.

Step two: The KitN tells me to try again, he'll even let me land unmolested since I'm now lacking a fleet.

Step three: I send my 30,000 men against the 70,000 men of the North and lose.

Step four: The KitN tells me to try again, he won't raise any troops this time.

Step five: I face the most difficult enemy of all, logistics, and lose.

Step six: The KitN suffers a heart attack from laughing at me floundering and dies. I win.

I swear your estimates of the North's numbers go up every time. 70,000 men? Seriously?

[TallTyrion]

It's a bit problematic with only 30,000 men... are there any reserves/sellswords to replace losses?

I attack from Essos. Braavos is my departing points, and where supply would be purchased from at first. I assume I have as much surprise as JonCon had when attacking from no-where, and that the Stark in Winterfell has no fleet (pre-ACOK, Manderly has no navy), and can only raise around ~25,000 men on a short notice (I include Robb's host, the ~3,000 Mountain Clansmen, the ~2,000 men from the Western North who rallies to oust the Greyjoys, and other garrisons from the Eastern North like Ramsay's, Arnolf's, and Hother's).

Opening Moves:

1. Use 20 war galleys to smash any resistance and main portion of my transport fleet to land 15,000 men at White Harbor. Establish it as my new base of operations in the north.

2. Second fleet with 7,500 men is to take Widow's Watch, move along the Broken Branch using barges for supply (and transport if possible), and take Hornwood.

3. Third fleet with 7,500 men is to land men at the Weeping Water, move along it using barges for supply (and transport if possible), and take the Dreadfort.

No lord at those locations has the power to stop any of my forces, and it should play out close to how fast the Golden Company took half of the Stormlands. I now control about a third of the North, and have knocked out two of the three main forces (Manderly and Bolton).

Consolidating Forces:

4. March 5,000 men from the army at the Dreadfort, and 5,000 men from the army at Hornwood to meet up at the White Knife, at a point they could cross to the Western half of the North.

5. 10,000 men from the army at White Harbor are to use river barges and make thier way north. Both field armies are to link up at Castle Cerwyn ASAP.

The Starks don't have the men to oppose me on a short notice, especially when the two main bannermen are out of the game along with Hornwood, the forces at the Neck and Umber and Karstark are separated from the main Stark army by my forces or simply too far away to arrive in time.

Main Offensive:

6. Take Winterfell and destroy whatever host the Starks have managed to scrounge up.

7. Split army to two equal hosts who would defeat the remaining Northen lords and secure the North. One is to move north clockwise, and take Deepwood Motte, Last Hearth, and Karhold. The second host is to move south counter clockwise, and take Torrhen's Square, Barrowton.

8. The Neck and Bear Island are to be left alone for now. Too much effort for too little gain. The southern host is to secure the southern border against any forces which might try and rally at Moat Cailing to threaten White Harbor or Barrowton. Bear Island and Flint's Finger are to be taken similarly to how Black Walder took Seaguard: With hostages from the main Stark host. If not possible, they would be stormed the moment enough tranpsorts and warships can be built or transported to the Sunset Sea.

All the major houses are to provide hostages. Strong garrisons are to be established in all major holdings. I should try and balance legitimising as many bastards as possible (they are to be given seats to rule as my bannermen. With them owing thier rule to me, they are more likely to remain loyal) and having my own high ranking officers marry into as many ruling houses as possible (bastards or not), and establish themselves as the ruling elite. Think fArya and Ramsay Snow Bolton, Amerei Frey Darry and Lancel.

This would require no fuck ups\ on my end, no extra luck on the Starks', and mainly playing my propaganda right if I want to keep the North.

Good strategy and it could work with more men. But after Storming White harbour, the Dreadfort, and Karhold you wouldn't have any men left to hold the North. I don't now if 7500 men could even take the Dreadfort. If they could you would probably lose more than half when taking the castle.

[Free Northman Reborn]

The Reach could ship their entire 100,000 men to the North, and even assuming not a single ship is lost in the initial voyage, they would not have enough men to conquer the North.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

It's a bit problematic with only 30,000 men... are there any reserves/sellswords to replace losses?

I attack from Essos. Braavos is my departing points, and where supply would be purchased from at first. I assume I have as much surprise as JonCon had when attacking from no-where, and that the Stark in Winterfell has no fleet (pre-ACOK, Manderly has no navy), and can only raise around ~25,000 men on a short notice (I include Robb's host, the ~3,000 Mountain Clansmen, the ~2,000 men from the Western North who rallies to oust the Greyjoys, and other garrisons from the Eastern North like Ramsay's, Arnolf's, and Hother's).

Opening Moves:

1. Use 20 war galleys to smash any resistance and main portion of my transport fleet to land 15,000 men at White Harbor. Establish it as my new base of operations in the north.

2. Second fleet with 7,500 men is to take Widow's Watch, move along the Broken Branch using barges for supply (and transport if possible), and take Hornwood.

3. Third fleet with 7,500 men is to land men at the Weeping Water, move along it using barges for supply (and transport if possible), and take the Dreadfort.

No lord at those locations has the power to stop any of my forces, and it should play out close to how fast the Golden Company took half of the Stormlands. I now control about a third of the North, and have knocked out two of the three main forces (Manderly and Bolton).

Consolidating Forces:

4. March 5,000 men from the army at the Dreadfort, and 5,000 men from the army at Hornwood to meet up at the White Knife, at a point they could cross to the Western half of the North.

5. 10,000 men from the army at White Harbor are to use river barges and make thier way north. Both field armies are to link up at Castle Cerwyn ASAP.

The Starks don't have the men to oppose me on a short notice, especially when the two main bannermen are out of the game along with Hornwood, the forces at the Neck and Umber and Karstark are separated from the main Stark army by my forces or simply too far away to arrive in time.

Main Offensive:

6. Take Winterfell and destroy whatever host the Starks have managed to scrounge up.

7. Split army to two equal hosts who would defeat the remaining Northen lords and secure the North. One is to move north clockwise, and take Deepwood Motte, Last Hearth, and Karhold. The second host is to move south counter clockwise, and take Torrhen's Square, Barrowton.

8. The Neck and Bear Island are to be left alone for now. Too much effort for too little gain. The southern host is to secure the southern border against any forces which might try and rally at Moat Cailing to threaten White Harbor or Barrowton. Bear Island and Flint's Finger are to be taken similarly to how Black Walder took Seaguard: With hostages from the main Stark host. If not possible, they would be stormed the moment enough tranpsorts and warships can be built or transported to the Sunset Sea.

All the major houses are to provide hostages. Strong garrisons are to be established in all major holdings. I should try and balance legitimising as many bastards as possible (they are to be given seats to rule as my bannermen. With them owing thier rule to me, they are more likely to remain loyal) and having my own high ranking officers marry into as many ruling houses as possible (bastards or not), and establish themselves as the ruling elite. Think fArya and Ramsay Snow Bolton, Amerei Frey Darry and Lancel.

This would require no fuck ups\ on my end, no extra luck on the Starks', and mainly playing my propaganda right if I want to keep the North.

1. You are grossly underestimating the Dreadfort. A Stark, with no other opposition, took two years to force it to surrender. While your little army is besieging the castle, Karstarks, Umbers, and Hornwoods, which should be about 8,500 in total + 5,000 Bolton men, will crush you.

2. Hornwood is not on the Broken Branch. That's a show thing, and the app says all lands around the Branch are Manderly lands.

3. Assuming you manage to take Ramsgate and Widow's Watch, you'll need to take the Hornwood, which will be prepared for you.

4. Assuming you take Hornwood, if you meet at Castle Cerwyn, you can't leave WH unprotected So let's leave 5,000 men there. Your army besieging Castle Cerwyn right now should be about 10,000 men. And the Boltons, Karstarks, Umbers, Dustins, and Starks are coming.

5. You miraculously manage to take Cerwyn. You have about 8,000 left and you face approximately 15,000 Northmen. You lose.

6. Your army at WH runs away.

An option is to not defend WH but risk the Lockes take it bloodlessly and cut off your supply line. But then you're still outnumbered, 13,000 to 17,000, and surrounded on all sides.

[Nyrhex]

Good strategy and it could work with more men. But after Storming White harbour, the Dreadfort, and Karhold you wouldn't have any men left to hold the North. I don't now if 7500 men could even take the Dreadfort. If they could you would probably lose more than half when taking the castle.

I am not talking about throwing lives away at a fully garrisoned fortress, I am talking about smashing peace-time garrison of a couple hundred men total from the castle and the area around it with several thousand men, with surprise on my side. Think Golden Company in the Stormlands. Manderly has the most at White Harbor, but it's still a hell of alot fewer men than KL's 2,000 men. More like 200-500 men tops. Take the seats of power, capture noble hostages, destroy any opposition, and move on.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

I swear your estimates of the North's numbers go up every time. 70,000 men? Seriously?

I think 65,000 is more likely, with a Northern population of around 8,000,000~9,000,000, but 70,000 is not improbable.

[Chaircat Meow]

I would ship my army to White Harbour and disembark some distance away to avoid a close confrontation with their fleet and then march to the city. Seize all grain, victuals and lay waste to the country along the White Knife and then besiege the town. The Stark will have to muster his army at Winterfell and march to engage me. I would raise the siege and march to meet him at a place of my choosing. Pull a Hastings there and then take the North, starting with White Harbour because of its strategic importance.

[m'lady Melisandre]

Here's a new series of topics starting with the conquering of the North.

You are in command of an army. You can start from ONE of these regions: Iron Islands, Riverlands, Vale, Essos. However, you CAN divide your army and send it to attack different parts of the region.

Your army numbers 30,000 men, a third of which is cavalry. You have enough money to buy transport for all of them and twenty warships should you need to sail on water.

The North isn't involved in any other war so it will rally under the Starks against you, however slowly or not. On your side though, we're assuming the North is independent and has no allies in Westeros to call on. Also, no access to story characters on your side whichever region you choose to come from.

What is your strategy to conquer it?

Political Marriage, strong economic relationships, corruption.. some assassins working in the shadows if needed.. I would start with the Vale, I would say it's the easiest to join with Winterland.

[TallTyrion]

I am not talking about throwing lives away at a fully garrisoned fortress, I am talking about smashing peace-time garrison of a couple hundred men total from the castle and the area around it with several thousand men, with surprise on my side. Think Golden Company in the Stormlands. Manderly has the most at White Harbor, but it's still a hell of alot fewer men than KL's 2,000 men. More like 200-500 men tops. Take the seats of power, capture noble hostages, destroy any opposition, and move on.

Yeah the Stormland castles seems pretty weak and lightly garrisoned though. Jon says that even with 200 men the Dreadfort is still formidable. I think Stannis had about 3000 men at that point and attacking the Dreadfort would be a suicide mission.

Also the Stormlands in tiny compared to the North. The march from Widows watch to the Dreadfort would probably take as much time as marching across the whole of the Stormlands. After your initial strike on White harbour the element of surprise is lost. Soon as Manderly gets attacked he sends Ravens to Winterfell. The Starks would inform all other major castles and they would no longer have peace time garrisons.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

I am not talking about throwing lives away at a fully garrisoned fortress, I am talking about smashing peace-time garrison of a couple hundred men total from the castle and the area around it with several thousand men, with surprise on my side. Think Golden Company in the Stormlands. Manderly has the most at White Harbor, but it's still a hell of alot fewer men than KL's 2,000 men. More like 200-500 men tops. Take the seats of power, capture noble hostages, destroy any opposition, and move on.

But the problem is that in peace times (not alike the SL now) the Lord has 1000 men that can be called at arms in the sourrandings in a few hours. Add the ravens factor, and everybody will know from you after the first strike.

Is the better plan we can do anyway, with the amount of men given.

[Nyrhex]

1. You are grossly underestimating the Dreadfort. A Stark, with no other opposition, took two years to force it to surrender. While your little army is besieging the castle, Karstarks, Umbers, and Hornwoods, which should be about 8,500 in total + 5,000 Bolton men, will crush you.

2. Hornwood is not on the Broken Branch. That's a show thing, and the app says all lands around the Branch are Manderly lands.

3. Assuming you manage to take Ramsgate and Widow's Watch, you'll need to take the Hornwood, which will be prepared for you.

4. Assuming you take Hornwood, if you meet at Castle Cerwyn, you can't leave WH unprotected So let's leave 5,000 men there. Your army besieging Castle Cerwyn right now should be about 10,000 men. And the Boltons, Karstarks, Umbers, Dustins, and Starks are coming.

5. You miraculously manage to take Cerwyn. You have about 8,000 left and you face approximately 15,000 Northmen. You lose.

6. Your army at WH runs away.

An option is to not defend WH but risk the Lockes take it bloodlessly and cut off your supply line. But then you're still outnumbered, 13,000 to 17,000, and surrounded on all sides.

1. I am not talking about sending them a postcard with the exact time and place I would attack. I would not allow Roose time to marshall his forces (closer to 4,000 after a year of training a new garrison, but beside the point). Think Rodrik at Winterfell. I won't waste time with a siege, because I don't havew the time. I would use ropes and ladders and storm it the same day I arrive.

2. I can still use the Broken Branch to ship supply and men most of the way.

3. So? They would have more time than any of the other first targets, but it's still not enough to actually raise thier banners. Even what they can raise is minor compared with the other targets, and my host outnumbers them greatly.

4. I did. 15,000 take it from the garrison, 10,000 men march north. About 5,000 men (minus minor losses) are still there untapped even after step 8. The Boltons are out of the game, the Umbers and the Karstarks are farther away than my forces, and there are now 20,000 men poised to attack Winterfell.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Frankly speaking, Bright Blue Eyes has if anything understated how catastrophic your defeat would be.

[TallTyrion]

1. I am not talking about sending them a postcard with the exact time and place I would attack. I would not allow Roose time to marshall his forces (closer to 4,000 after a year of training a new garrison, but beside the point). Think Rodrik at Winterfell. I won't waste time with a siege, because I don't havew the time. I would use ropes and ladders and storm it the same day I arrive.

2. I can still use the Broken Branch to ship supply and men most of the way.

3. So? They would have more time than any of the other first targets, but it's still not enough to actually raise thier banners. Even what they can raise is minor compared with the other targets, and my host outnumbers them greatly.

4. I did. 15,000 take it from the garrison, 10,000 men march north. About 5,000 men (minus minor losses) are still there untapped even after step 8. The Boltons are out of the game, the Umbers and the Karstarks are farther away than my forces, and there are now 20,000 men poised to attack Winterfell.

Storming Castle costs your army a lot of men. That's why most armies prefer a siege. Even with 200 men garrisoned at the Dreadfort your army would lose thousands storming the walls of the castle.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Stannis has probably the most battle hardened force of southron knights that exists in Westeros, and yet Jon said that his entire force would be cut to pieces if they tried to march a hundred leagues down the kingsroad next to the Umber lands, because the Umbers know every rock and every tree along the way.

Note that this is not even a march across difficult terrain. It is down the Kingsroad. Note too that this is not a first choice Umber army at full strength. It is the dregs of the Umber forces, those left behind after the Greatjon took his prime forces south with Robb. And Jon says they would cut Stannis's veteran 1300 knights to pieces before they ever reach the Dreadfort.

The distances involved in moving large armies across the North mean that familiarity with the terrain becomes a much greater advantage, as armies are exposed to the terrain for much longer periods while on the march.

Now, if the leftover Umber dregs can do that to Stannis's hardened forces, what could the full Umber strength achieve on their home territory? What could the Bolton, Manderly, Dustin, Karstark etc. forces achieve on their home territory?

The idea of raiding the White Knife region until it forces the Starks to meet you in battle utterly ignores the fact that the Northern forces would have the same advantage that the Umber forces had over Stannis's troops up in the Umber territory. Only now you would be talking about 30,000 prime northern elite soldiers, instead of a couple of thousand Umber leftovers.

30,000 Northern first choice soldiers would smash armies 100,000 strong on their home turf. Because they would bleed the enemy dry long before the main engagement. They would wear them down, and pick the ground of their battles according to their local knowledge of the terrain, and 8000 years of smashing all invaders that tried to conquer them.

Based on the hints in the World Book, the North has been dealing with invaders for most of their history - when not fighting wars of consolidation in their own territory. Every bannerlord's territory has likely seen hundreds of battles all over the area over the course of 8000 years. A well educated Northern lord likely knows the history, details and outcome of every major battle that has taken place in his territory in recorded history. So they know which hill and which river or canyon has which tactical or strategic advantage.

You could not take the North with 100,000 troops. Even if you could get the 100,000 troops there in the first place.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

1. I am not talking about sending them a postcard with the exact time and place I would attack. I would not allow Roose time to marshall his forces (closer to 4,000 after a year of training a new garrison, but beside the point). Think Rodrik at Winterfell. I won't waste time with a siege, because I don't havew the time. I would use ropes and ladders and storm it the same day I arrive.

2. I can still use the Broken Branch to ship supply and men most of the way.

3. So? They would have more time than any of the other first targets, but it's still not enough to actually raise thier banners. Even what they can raise is minor compared with the other targets, and my host outnumbers them greatly.

4. I did. 15,000 take it from the garrison, 10,000 men march north. About 5,000 men (minus minor losses) are still there untapped even after step 8. The Boltons are out of the game, the Umbers and the Karstarks are farther away than my forces, and there are now 20,000 men poised to attack Winterfell.

1. Roose mustered about 3,000 during the Wot5K to go south on short notice, and there were additionally hundreds left at the Dreadfort, meaning about 4,500 Bolton men that can be mustered quickly. It takes time to reach the Dreadfort, meaning Lord Bolton would be forewarned from WH and WW. So let's say he musters the amount Roose did when he went south, which is 3,000. 3,000 men on top of a castle can delay 7,500 men below it long enough for the 5,500 Umber and Karstark men to arrive.

2. The Hornwood is actually probably pretty far from the Branch.

3. The Hornwoods have more than enough time. When WH falls that means Ramsgate and WW will be warned, so you'll probably lose lots taking these two castles. And by the time you reach the Hornwood the full Hornwood army of about 2,000 will face your army, which should be about 6,000 now if we account for the losses taking WW and RG. You'll win, but it won't be a very easy fight.

4. So about 9,000 from WH plus about 4,000 from Hornwood, besieging a castle that borders the Starks and the Dustins. 5,000 Dustins + Some Tallharts will be marching northeast and the Starks southwest. The Bolton-Karstark-Umber army should also be arriving. And the siege of Cerwyn should take some time.

5. Okay, so Bolton + Karstark + Umber + Dustin + Tallhart + Stark v. Approximately 12,000 soldiers. Not much of a fight.

[Stannis's Lawyer]

I am not talking about throwing lives away at a fully garrisoned fortress, I am talking about smashing peace-time garrison of a couple hundred men total from the castle and the area around it with several thousand men, with surprise on my side. Think Golden Company in the Stormlands. Manderly has the most at White Harbor, but it's still a hell of alot fewer men than KL's 2,000 men. More like 200-500 men tops. Take the seats of power, capture noble hostages, destroy any opposition, and move on.

Most of the Stormlander soldiers perished at the BW. I doubt the GC could take, say, Griffin's Roost as it was in 150 AC.