Lannister Bias

[Ser Creighton]

Yeah, about that...George wrote the stuff about Nymeria. ;)

George wrote all the notes if I am not mistaken. But as co authors you are part of the process and heavily associated with tied to everything in the book. Which just for the record I am enjoying and cudos to you, but people are going to talk about things like this. It's just part of the process.

Now weather it was you or George or anyone, she does appear pretty shinny to me. Which is a little different from the norm, perhaps Yandal is a big fan. But it's not really possible for me or anyone to know exactly who wrote what and why it was written that exact way. There are three authors an narrator in the form of an unreliable POV, conjecture, applied supposition, assumptions, facts, contradictions, and there all suppose to be there, and that's the Martin style, and that's great but that just makes it that much harder to decipher. No less fun, but clearly this style will make a reader look at it with more critical eye, because the reader has to be more cautious, because not everything is what it seems.

For you it may seem a hell of a lot easier because you wrote it, you worked directly with the source, you received 300,000 words worth of material. You can just pop in and say yeah Martin wrote that, but I can't do that, how would I know, all I know is he supplied you with the notes, everything else for me is an educated guess.

So ok Martin made here pretty squeaky clean. I find that different given the series. I don't know if it means anything but it is different than what I am used to with the series.

Like the Aerys II section that is a lot more of what I am used to in terms of characters. Sure Aerys is crazy but there was good there once, and he had a lot of pain and the effect the miscarriages had on him. The bias nature of Pycelle, the little dig about Tywin not eating off another mans leavings. The Nym stuff felt more like it was a tale about this woman rather than a studied historical account.

ETA. Look I am not the person to give you advice on your book, or your joint project or however you 3 refer to it. I get it, it probably was not that fun when some crazies attacked the Amazon review section, and I have no doubt after the years of work you put in on this and all the time and effort that maybe a little part of you might be a little protective of this book, but give it a little time. It's very cool that one of the authors is talking to the fans about the book. But you have been working on this book for years and you probably know it better than anyone. The rest of us have only had it for a few days, and it's really dense and really detailed and it's a lot to absorb.

Like when I first read Dance it was my least favorite book, but after awhile it became my favorite book, well that or Swords. I appreciated at lot more really picking up on everything that is in it. But it took time at least for me.

Anyway you just got to write a book with Martin, you should be partying your ass off not reading the ramblings of a poster you can't stand.

[Ran]

Aerys II is contemporary, though. Look at, I don't know, Benedict the Just as a comparison to Nymeria.

Benedict, like Nymeria, are sort of national heroes in a distant past and the way they're talked about is going to be different than how Aerys II is talked about. Similarly, the stories of Theon Stark -- this tremendous warrior who basically kicked everyone's ass and then some -- could very well also be rather exaggerated. Yandel (and Gyldayn, and every other maester cited who did not live contemporaneously to the events they wrote about) can only go by their sources.

[Lion of the West]

Even I have to agree that many things were kind of smoothed for the Lannister's benefit. But given that I've read lots of stuff in inofficial sources going the opposite way it was kind of a nice change.

[Ser Creighton]

Aerys II is contemporary, though. Look at, I don't know, Benedict the Just as a comparison to Nymeria.Benedict, like Nymeria, are sort of national heroes in a distant past and the way they're talked about is going to be different than how Aerys II is talked about. Similarly, the stories of Theon Stark -- this tremendous warrior who basically kicked everyone's ass and then some -- could very well also be rather exaggerated. Yandel (and Gyldayn, and every other maester cited who did not live contemporaneously to the events they wrote about) can only go by their sources.

Ok yeah I get that, umm just a heads up I did an ETA in the previous post which explains a little better, I guess of how I am looking at the book right now. Your reply though is a perfect example, of what I was saying in the ETA it's very easy for you to just pop that off the top of your head. I have only had the book for a few days like the rest of us and I am still getting a feel for it and absorbing all of it, I can't state enough how much it is to absorb. We the fans are just scratching the surface of this thing, you are not a fan here, your an author you are on a completely different level of understanding with this book.

[Ran]

Just take our occasional comments as a bit to elucidate stuff that isn't clear. No harm, no foul. :)

[Free Northman Reborn]

Aerys II is contemporary, though. Look at, I don't know, Benedict the Just as a comparison to Nymeria.

Benedict, like Nymeria, are sort of national heroes in a distant past and the way they're talked about is going to be different than how Aerys II is talked about. Similarly, the stories of Theon Stark -- this tremendous warrior who basically kicked everyone's ass and then some -- could very well also be rather exaggerated. Yandel (and Gyldayn, and every other maester cited who did not live contemporaneously to the events they wrote about) can only go by their sources.

Now don't come and spoil my enjoyment with that kind of comment! Theon Stark rules!

[Ser Creighton]

Just take our occasional comments as a bit to elucidate stuff that isn't clear. No harm, no foul. :)

You know just for the record, and I don't speak for everyone obviously. But the people I talk to are really enjoying The World of Ice and fire, and you do deserve that credit. You got us info we would not have had otherwise, and it is entertaining and I am currently on my first reread and have only had the book for a few days. Take that how you want. But it's a good, and you clearly put in a lot of effort and I don't think it has been said enough and the illustrations are great, and I see a lot of happy fans. Look I don't know you or Linda at all, but a sincere congratulations on your success.

See I can do a elucidate comment as well.

[Mithras]

Harwyn Hardhand seems more badass than Nymeria.

[LordBloodraven]

Harwyn Hardhand seems more badass than Nymeria.

No way. I like Harwyn Hardhand though

[Piolina]

The bias is against the Targaryens and also against the Starks. He is biased against the Old Gods and their powers and the First Men. I wrote on my blog earlier today about this and I collected few examples. One of them is when the Starks took back Bear Island from the Ironborn, Yandel mentions that the Starks won the wrestling match with "words" (something very doubtful considering the nature of the Ironborn. Another one in which the Others were just a tribe of First Men that moved south due to the Long Winter as opposed to being a mythical, dangerous race. The book mentions that the Night's Watch and the Starks coloured the Others differently to make themselves look like heroes. These are some of the points that I was able to collect for my blog. I am focusing about the North now (it is hard to read fast when you have two little ones to take care of).

[King Tyrion I]

Pro-Lannister/Baratheon as mentioned....and also Arryn. I think Yandel may have strained something bending over to kiss Jon Arryn's rear.

I think the "dedication" works for the time when Tommen has just ascended the IT and Tywin is his acting Hand. (And we all know about Tywin's reputation.)

So, even as a maester you're well advised making your peace with the worldly authorities.

I guess that's why it's "biased" in a way.

(Mind you, I'm a Lannister supporter, but I'm not saying this because I favor the Lannisters.)

[Fae Boleyn]

Yandel is not necessarily biased on the historical facts, but his sources are. And he is completely sucking up to Robert, but that's it. Ran/Linda have said that the intention was that Elia stuff was supposed to be somebody else tinkering with the manuscript, indicated by a changed color for the page.

Really? I have the kindle version so nifty bits like that aren't present. But that's pretty cool if true, I wonder who might have done that.

But yeah, Yandel is going to paint the ruling family in a good light - if nothing else, to get his book published. Not to mention, it's good for a fledgling dynasty, especially one under threat, to have credentials. Joffrey and Tommen may be "sons" of a usurper/king by conquest, but they have ruler blood in their veins - look at their grandfather! It's part history, part PR so Yandel can get his book published, and part overreliance on Pycelle's word when I'm sure there were other maesters at the Red Keep.

[Ran]

Well, we proposed that the texture change should be there when we wrote it. Didn't happen for budgetary/time reasons, but that was the idea we had in our minds.

[Lord Varys]

Such things should be kept in mind if you ever get around to make a special edition of this thing. After all, George loves such things, and this book could not be more heavily illustrated, so you would have to do something else...

[HexMachina]

Pro-Lannister/Baratheon as mentioned....and also Arryn. I think Yandel may have strained something bending over to kiss Jon Arryn's rear.

Really? It seemed to me like Yandel downplayed Jon Arryn's role. "And Robert ruled gloriously for 20 years. Oh, and.some guy called Jon helped out a little, from.time to time."

[Jasta11]

Can you provide a single example of him trying to turn Rhaegar against Aerys? Tywin isn't to blame for everything, I am sure Aerys was more than capable of driving a wedge between himself and his son without Tywin's help.

Yeah, from what we saw Aerys was more than capable of making enemies by his lonesome even before Duskendale. Afterwards he went into full-blown lunacy mode. Maybe Tywin is more to blame than what the Maester implies, but I strongly doubt he's a big culprit in this affair.

[Ser Lepus]

The guy comes as obviously pro-Lannister, the way he licks Tywin's butt and tries to put the fault of Elia and her children's deaths on somebody else, probably due to the fact that the queen is a Lannister, the crown prince is half-Lannister, and Robert is indebted to the Lannisters, but it could also be in part due to accepting Pycelle as an objetive source of data instead of as the Lannister agent he is.

Also, if he was trying to curry favour by licking Tywin's boots, he committed two mistakes: 1.-Robert wouldn't be pleased to read that overly favourable portrayal of Tywin, and 2.-Tywin wouldn't like having his father's failings exposed that way for all to read.

[The hairy bear]

But Yandel couldn't know Robert's true felings towards Tywin. From an external perspective, Robert had married her daughter, kept Jaime in the kingsguard against every opinion, and took two Lannisters as squires. Any outsider would think that they were on good terms. And if his inside source in teh Council is G.M. Pycelle...

[Yukle]

I have not read the World book but I have a curiosity from what I have skimmed here. I heard it mentioned that there was something of a bias towards some of the more deplorable actions committed by the Lannisters, particularly the fate of Rhaegar's family. Is this true? Does the maester come off as very pro Lannister in his portrayal of the events here?

If it is a yes then it seems odd to me that there would be so many indications that the Lannisters have a strong connection to the conclave. It would make three connections; Pycelle, the one in White Harbor, and this one (if it is true).

The book begins with a dedication to Joffrey (which has been quite evidently rubbed out and replaced with Tommen's name). This is meant to explain the inconsistencies with some of the stories that Yandal writes and some that are in the novel.

For instance, he dismisses the value of the Night's Watch entirely and even speculates that the Others may not have ever been real. Although he says the building of the Wall must've been for some cataclysmic reason, given the effort it'd take, he doesn't really elaborate or care much. This is contrary to the first-hand accounts that the Night's Watch have made of the Others by 298 and 299. It's consistent with the Iron Throne's disbelief that the Others exist and the the hand presented to them was that of a Wight.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

I’m more concerned with inaccuracy than purported bias. Can any of the information regarding Tywin or the Lannisters be discounted or disproved.

I came away more impressed with Tywin than every before, knowing more of his full backstory. I will never approve of his brutality, but seeing how he was truly treated by Aerys, and how weak/disappointing his father was, I came away with a better understanding of him.