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Wealth and Power of House Velaryon


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Upon reading the TWOIAF, it was mentioned there that during the height of their power, House Velaryon was the wealthiest noble house in Westeros, eclipsing the wealth of both House Lannister and House Hightower at one point..



The fabled Corlys Velaryon, Lord of Driftmark was said to be the wealthiest lord in the realm during his time and provided Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen almost half her army during TDoTD..



Before the Civil War, it was said that the towns of Hull and Spicetown were the chief ports in the Blackwater Bay, even surpassing King's Landing itself..



House Velaryon is an ancient Valyrian family, as old and storied as the Targaryen themselves.. The Velaryons also provided many consorts and brides for House Targaryen and held the office of Lord Admiral and Master of Ships to an almost hereditary manner..



Nowadays, House Velaryon is nothing more than a shadow of their former glory.. With the sack of High Tide, stripping the keep with all its riches, the burning of Spicetown and the eventual fall of the Targaryen dynasty, do you guys think House Velaryon can reclaim their lost glory? and what do guys think if the Velaryons still had the same power and wealth during Robert's Rebellion or Battle of the Blackwater? Could their power and wealth change the tides of those wars?


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Upon reading the TWOIAF, it was mentioned there that during the height of their power, House Velaryon was the wealthiest noble house in Westeros, eclipsing the wealth of both House Lannister and House Hightower at one point..

The fabled Corlys Velaryon, Lord of Driftmark was said to be the wealthiest lord in the realm during his time and provided Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen almost half her army during TDoTD..

Before the Civil War, it was said that the towns of Hull and Spicetown were the chief ports in the Blackwater Bay, even surpassing King's Landing itself..

House Velaryon is an ancient Valyrian family, as old and storied as the Targaryen themselves.. The Velaryons also provided many consorts and brides for House Targaryen and held the office of Lord Admiral and Master of Ships to an almost hereditary manner..

Nowadays, House Velaryon is nothing more than a shadow of their former glory.. With the sack of High Tide, stripping the keep with all its riches, the burning of Spicetown and the eventual fall of the Targaryen dynasty, do you guys think House Velaryon can reclaim their lost glory? and what do guys think if the Velaryons still had the same power and wealth during Robert's Rebellion or Battle of the Blackwater? Could their power and wealth change the tides of those wars?

Apparently Alyn went on to be a great adventure in his own right winning glory and not once but twice conquering Planky Town. I think what broke it was the shattering of the Targ fleet the night of Dany's birth, because I imagine the Targ fleet was really just the Velaryon.

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Apparently Alyn went on to be a great adventure in his own right winning glory and not once but twice conquering Planky Town. I think what broke it was the shattering of the Targ fleet the night of Dany's birth, because I imagine the Targ fleet was really just the Velaryon.

Where does it ever say the Targ fleet was shattered? There was no fighting at or near Dragonstone IIRC.

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Where does it ever say the Targ fleet was shattered? There was no fighting at or near Dragonstone IIRC.

I don't remeber where exact, but it was describing when Dany was born a great Storm came and i think smashed it to pieces.

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Where does it ever say the Targ fleet was shattered? There was no fighting at or near Dragonstone IIRC.

The Targaryen fleet defending Dragonstone was destroyed by the same storm that gave Dany the nickname "Stormborn". Once word reached King's Landing that the fleet was smashed, Stannis set sail to take the castle.

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I don't remeber where exact, but it was describing when Dany was born a great Storm came and i think smashed it to pieces.

You are correct. The storm during which Dany was born destroyed the Targ fleet.

I kind of get the impression that the house had fallen out of favor before then, though. I think it might sort of be due to Daeron II's Dornish marriage. Before then the Velaryons were the closest Targ relatives and biggest allies. But when Daeron II married Myriah the favor switched somewhat to Dorne. And for whatever reason the Targ/Velaryon marriages stopped (I think that there must not have been a Velaryon woman available for Rhaegar or that's who Aerys would have chosen).

And of course, the Velaryon power in the Targ era was a function of their kinship with them. Robert, despite being part-Targ, doesn't seem to treat them as kin, so it makes sense that their influence in the Baratheon era is limited. Even so, Davos notes that Lord Velaryon is so high above him in rank that they could never work together as equals.

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The fall of the Velaryon's seems to be a slow process-we saw that they were horribly weakened during the Dance, with much of their army and navy being destroyed, and Driftmark being ravaged by the invading armies of the Three Daughters-Spicetown was never rebuilt, for example.



We see them making decisive contributions during a campaign in the Stepstones, dealing with the Red Kraken, and the Conquest of Dorne. These contributions are all naval, though, and I think this is because they never really reached the heights of manpower or money they did during the Dance.



After that there isn't really much-Alyn goes on some adventures, but they lose much of their prominence in their ties to the Targs when the Royal family starts marrying with Dorne, Aegon and his sons all married for love, and Aerys and Rhaegar, well.



They threw in their lot with Aerys during the Rebellion, their Lord probably died during the sack (it would be odd if the Master of Ships wasn't in KL considering the Royal Fleet didn't do much of anything during the war) and then their fleet, the one remaining source of their power and prominence is destroyed by a terrible storm.



This would have been bad enough for the Velaryon's of old, but such a loss was nothing short of catastrophic in their reduced state. Lacking the influence or funds to replace their losses entirely, and with their old royal favor replaced by a tainted association with the Mad King, the House would struggle to rebuild a fleet.



This brings us to the current Velaryons. We know that they have four warships confirmed, which seems lacking for the House that practically was the Royal Navy. It could be that the current head saw that their status as Lords of the Waters was replaced, and so sought to emulate his ancestor by focusing his efforts on instead building primarily a merchant marine, but this is just me guessing.



As for why they chose to support Stannis so faithfully, even giving up their old gods, I think the answer lies in Stannis own contempt for Dragonstone, which doubtless was known by his bannermen. Now, the Velaryons are at their weakest, but their strength lies in their mastery of the Narrow Sea and the Blackwater. If they were to be given Dragonstone and the Houses sworn to it as their lands and vassals respectively, say by a prickly king who nonetheless rewards loyalty faithfully and who hates the Targaryen seat anyway, they could claw their way beyond even their old strength, holding all of the old islands and thus having a stranglehold on Blackwater trade.



If we assume Lord Monford desired the Lordship of Dragonstone and hoped to gain it through loyal service to Stannis, then his conversion to R'hllor, his constant eagerness to come to grips with the enemy (and give an undeniable contribution to the cause), and his eventual death can all be seen as the result of him trying to be as vital to the cause as his ancestor's during the Dance, though it seems his own plan ended in much the same way, with blood and fire.



As for them possibly making a comeback? It might happen, though with Dragonstone fallen and their remaining strength up north, ruled by a child lord, I doubt it. Maybe Aurane will make a triumphant return with a vast pirate fleet, supporting a claimant or just striking out for himself. Of course, he could just stay in the Stepstones and start a new branch of the family.


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The fall of the Velaryon's seems to be a slow process-we saw that they were horribly weakened during the Dance, with much of their army and navy being destroyed, and Driftmark being ravaged by the invading armies of the Three Daughters-Spicetown was never rebuilt, for example.

We see them making decisive contributions during a campaign in the Stepstones, dealing with the Red Kraken, and the Conquest of Dorne. These contributions are all naval, though, and I think this is because they never really reached the heights of manpower or money they did during the Dance.

After that there isn't really much-Alyn goes on some adventures, but they lose much of their prominence in their ties to the Targs when the Royal family starts marrying with Dorne, Aegon and his sons all married for love, and Aerys and Rhaegar, well.

They threw in their lot with Aerys during the Rebellion, their Lord probably died during the sack (it would be odd if the Master of Ships wasn't in KL considering the Royal Fleet didn't do much of anything during the war) and then their fleet, the one remaining source of their power and prominence is destroyed by a terrible storm.

This would have been bad enough for the Velaryon's of old, but such a loss was nothing short of catastrophic in their reduced state. Lacking the influence or funds to replace their losses entirely, and with their old royal favor replaced by a tainted association with the Mad King, the House would struggle to rebuild a fleet.

This brings us to the current Velaryons. We know that they have four warships confirmed, which seems lacking for the House that practically was the Royal Navy. It could be that the current head saw that their status as Lords of the Waters was replaced, and so sought to emulate his ancestor by focusing his efforts on instead building primarily a merchant marine, but this is just me guessing.

As for why they chose to support Stannis so faithfully, even giving up their old gods, I think the answer lies in Stannis own contempt for Dragonstone, which doubtless was known by his bannermen. Now, the Velaryons are at their weakest, but their strength lies in their mastery of the Narrow Sea and the Blackwater. If they were to be given Dragonstone and the Houses sworn to it as their lands and vassals respectively, say by a prickly king who nonetheless rewards loyalty faithfully and who hates the Targaryen seat anyway, they could claw their way beyond even their old strength, holding all of the old islands and thus having a stranglehold on Blackwater trade.

If we assume Lord Monford desired the Lordship of Dragonstone and hoped to gain it through loyal service to Stannis, then his conversion to R'hllor, his constant eagerness to come to grips with the enemy (and give an undeniable contribution to the cause), and his eventual death can all be seen as the result of him trying to be as vital to the cause as his ancestor's during the Dance, though it seems his own plan ended in much the same way, with blood and fire.

As for them possibly making a comeback? It might happen, though with Dragonstone fallen and their remaining strength up north, ruled by a child lord, I doubt it. Maybe Aurane will make a triumphant return with a vast pirate fleet, supporting a claimant or just striking out for himself. Of course, he could just stay in the Stepstones and start a new branch of the family.

you are forgeting the fact that monfred threatened Stannis to withdraw his forces if he didnt act right then.... that doesnt seam like the kind of behaviour of someone who expects to be in the best terms with him.

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you are forgeting the fact that monfred threatened Stannis to withdraw his forces if he didnt act right then.... that doesnt seam like the kind of behaviour of someone who expects to be in the best terms with him.

It is a wrinkle. However, Stannis is put-out enough by having feast with his lords when he summons them for war that I doubt he would visit or meet with them regularly in times of peace.

Lord Velaryon could have concocted this plan when he believed Stannis intended to crown himself King, only to find that the prickly nature of his liege was too much for him to stand when they were actually meeting for extended periods of time, prompting him to try and get Stannis to stop brooding through threats, or his pride wouldn't allow him to be held in thrall to a sullen lobster lord who called him for battle then bid him wait.

Or Lord Velaryon doesn't care for Stannis the man and simply wants to get to battle so his House doesn't find their lands sacked by an enemy invasion. Again.

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The Velaryons used to field around 10'000 men with around 90-100 ships, that's Redwyne or Hightower level stuff. Corlys toured the world and grew rich form the stuff he bought back.

But after the sacking of Spicetown and High Tide, that was all lost. Alyn was real loyal to the Targs and also embarked on journeys, but his power was small, only his influence was high.

Now they have four ships and 500 men. (Although they recently acquired 10 huge new ships).

They lost their Valyrian blood, and they lost their wealth and might. I think they would have similar wealth to the Celtigars.

Yeah the Velaryons have lost so much.

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The biggest blow to their power would have been the destruction of the royal fleet off Dragonstone and Robert's victory. He would have cut them down to size again, especially due to their blood ties to House Targaryen.


In fact, from our current POV we should very much assume that Robert named Stannis Lord of Dragonstone to have a very loyal guy in charge of the island who ensured that the Velaryons did not end up backing Viserys III during an invasion.



It does not seem that the Dance fully broke their backbone, their real decline must have begun later. Perhaps their had a succession of shitty lords, or another sea battle - perhaps during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion - cost them even more ships?

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I was hoping to get a confirmation that they supported another Blackfyre pretender and that was the final thing that led them to fall from grace. Sadly, we didn't get that, which makes the possibility less likely.


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I really doubt the Velaryons would back a Blackfyre. And if they did support them in the first one, they would have been mentioned by now, and less and less houses back Blackfyre's each time. Very unlikely.
They are practically Targs, and easy to assualt from Dragonstone or KL. Neutral sure, but not rebel.

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Veltigar,



that was my original guess, too. But the Robert thing is also not that bad since this could be a pretty big hint that Robert's takeover did have consequences from some ancient houses - we already know about the Darrys, Whents, Conningtons, and Merryweathers, after all.


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The Velaryons were the main supporters to the Targaryens, intermarrying with them, getting their own dragons and commanding their fleets, but they proved dangerous: Lord Corlys Velaryon supported Prince Daemon's invasion of the Stepstones, and later became strong supporters of the Blacks. Later, princess Elaena Targayren, who was the daughter of a Velaryon consort queen took her uncle Alyn Velaryon as her lover and sired a litter of bastards together...



The Targayren probably thought at some point: "These Velaryons believe themselves our equals, riding our dragons, supporting a Targayren against another and impregnationg our princesses...we should take them a peg or two down".



Plus Robert probably dramatically reduced their wealth and power due to their long history as allies to the Targayrens.


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Smooth.

Hey, that's probably how the Targaryen saw it. Those people saw themselves as close to gods, resorted to incest to keep their blood pure, and then that bastard-born Alyn comes and impregnates a Targaryen princess, making not one but three bastards...can you imagine their outrage?

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