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A Sandor Clegane Discussion


Fool of a Took

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Returns as a knight of the Faith. Becomes the owner of Lady Forlorn. Takes part in Sansa's trial by Seven in which Robert Strong is defeated. Is forgiven by Arya. Becomes a kingsguard knight. Braves dragon's fire, possibly slays a dragon. Backs down in battle against Jon as he will not fight Sansa's brother. Refuses to go with Sansa when she asks him to escape with her.


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Returns as a knight of the Faith. Becomes the owner of Lady Forlorn. Takes part in Sansa's trial by Seven in which Robert Strong is defeated. Is forgiven by Arya. Becomes a kingsguard knight. Braves dragon's fire, possibly slays a dragon. Backs down in battle against Jon as he will not fight Sansa's brother. Refuses to go with Sansa when she asks him to escape with her.

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"Let it go before you end up like me." or something

Nah that's something for Stoneheart to say to Arya.

For Sandor it's more look at all this epic good shit I'm doing, imagine if you'd killed me how fucked the realm and your sister would be, that's why you don't get to decide.

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Nah that's something for Stoneheart to say to Arya.

For Sandor it's more look at all this epic good shit I'm doing, imagine if you'd killed me how fucked the realm and your sister would be, that's why you don't get to decide.

Creepily, I could see LS just patting Arya on the head and saying keep up the good work.

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3. I think he's going to try for the Vale via boat to look for the Stark girls. I like the idea of him joining the burned men clan, they'd like him. As for resolving his desertion/murderous rampage criminal charges, I think when he gets to the Vale it will play out like this:

He's busted and opts for trial by combat for obvious reasons. Sansa's all "Harry the Heir darling, this crispy jerk beat me up in King's Landing, be a doll and kill him for me? You'll totally beat him, he's not even a knight like you" and Harry arrogantly tries and gets beaten within inches of his life (born-again Sandor is nice like that, maybe) So then Sandor's declared innocent and then Sansa runs over to Littlefinger and is like: "Daddy dearest, this guy knows who I am, but he won't sell me out to the queen if he has a nice job, and we need swords. Wanna hire him?" And then boom, Sandor's ready to help Sansa and gets paid to do it, yay.

Haha, Sansa manipulating Harry so he gets killed in order to escape her bethrotal/marriage would be very Littlefingerish... but the problem is that LF would see right through that. Cleans hands? Maybe Sansa has someone else suggest Harry to face the Hound in a trial?

Oh yah, I think Sansa really wants Sandor to live and would fight dirty for his sake. It would REALLY tick off Sandor if she falsely accused him of beating her, and then he'd want to smash up her pretty knight boyfriend even worse and he'd win his trial easily and without any qualms about causing Sansa more pain. It's dark but not evil, total Littlefinger-ish move.

Well, she doesn't have to accuse him openly, she just needs to whisper in Harry's ear (or make sure someone does)

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I would really love it if he teaches arya to forgive. That would be awesome. He knows what bitterness, rage and desire for revenge leads so he is the perfect one to help her.

I love this! It would be wonderful.

And he tried before. When Arya was down after RW, he tried to talk to her about her mother, and made her get out of a funk. Got her up in the morning, and kept her busy and occupied. He knows that if you get to that dark place and stay there, well, it is hard to climb out. He knows, he lived it, he still was even at that point, but he didn't want that for her. It is very subtle, but it speaks volumes.

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I would really love it if he teaches arya to forgive. That would be awesome. He knows what bitterness, rage and desire for revenge leads so he is the perfect one to help her.

That's nice - I would like to see it happen also - and then both of them get killed after :devil:

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It is widely speculated that Sansa will eventually kill LF and I think she will need a pretty big catalyst to do so: the fact she trusts Sandor has already been established and he was in the Throne room to witness her father being betrayed by LF. Also if it was LF who persuaded Joff to kill Ned, so there is a good chance Sandor may know about it from Joff and relay this info to her.

The chance of him ending up having to fight Frankengregor is another possibility. Although it is difficult to speculate how this scenario will arise as Cersei is almost certain to win her trial by combat. Edit: my money being on Lancel bitting the dust against Sir Robert Strong.

Also for a side character who maybe dead, he has been referenced quite a bit in AFFC and ADWD by Jaime, Kevan, Cersei, Brienne and in every single Sansa chapter (which given the characters haven't been connected since ACOF is strange from a literary viewpoint unless it was going somewhere).

Then again I also thought Stoneheart, the Ironborn, Aegon, Arienne, Tysha etc were important but they have been completely cut from the TV show, so who knows.

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While a Cleganebowl would be awesome, a Sandor vs. Gregor/Robert Strong matchup at this point would feel too forced, in my opinion. A lot of people want to see Sandor kill Gregor for what Gregor did to him when they were growing up, but I hope he lives the rest of his days in peace. The last fight took a heavy physical toll on Sandor, and even if he somehow completely recovered, I don't think it would make any sense for Sandor to drop his identity as the Gravedigger, leave the peaceful Quiet Isle, assume his identity as the Hound again, and somehow position himself to fight Gregor/Robert Strong. If the Gravedigger is really Sandor, which seems to be the case, I think it would be an appropriate, non-cliche happy ending for this tormented man. The Elder Brother said the Hound is dead, and I hope that angry and tormented aspect of Sandor's personality stays dead. The Hound personality was awesome and badass while it lasted, but its time has come and gone.

Actually that would be the only thing that would make sense for him to drop his identity, after all - It was the "fuel that kept his fires burning". "The hope of seeing his brothers blood was all he lived for".

The Elder Brother states that Oberyn took this from him. It's logical to assume that losing "all he lived for" is why he's now digging graves/living a life of obscurity. It's also logical to assume that with this vengeance again becoming a possibility, it could see him return to his killing ways. Especially as him working for the Faith gives him a very likely outlet into that trial.

It's been perfectly setup IMO. I think it will happen. I wouldn't be too disappointed if it doesn't though and the Hound is left in peace,

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imo theres too much evidence to say that the gravedigger isnt sandor. the big question isnt if hes alive, its if hell make a return. for a 'dead' character who didnt really have a big impact on the story (in comparison to the other dead characters who get brought up a lot), they do mention him enough later in the series. i have to assume this and the brienne chapter is for a reason. if he does return to the fold then it wouldnt make any sense for it to be as a minor character. even if its a quick appearance it should have a big impact.



the elder brother said he has miraculous healing powers, or something along those lines, so his injuries shouldnt be a factor. its not too likely but i could definitely see him kind of using the elder brother just for those healing abilities. im not saying hell start cutting down monks but it wouldnt be out of character for the hound to simply get up, leave and if anyone questions him he tells them to go f-off when hes back to 100%. if he does return he might not really be a changed man.



ya, sandor is a huge dick and a lot creepier with sansa in the books, but hes shown that hes really not that bad of a guy when compared to his reputation. i would like to see him come back pretty much unchanged. the most popular theory besides fighting ungregor is that hell save sansa somehow. could see him being a bit nicer to her and arya if they ever meet again but being pretty much same old a-hole sandor to everyone else.



since there are tons of theories on what hell do ill throw out another one that isnt likely but along the same lines. he could get tired of being on the quiet isle and his repentance to the elder brother was him thinking he was never going to fight again. he joined up with the lannisters pretty much so he could kill people but it would be law rather than murder. when he realizes hes not basically crippled he leaves the quiet isle for the NW since hes still a wanted man because of deserting. same idea as why he became a soldier even though he never wanted to be a knight. some jon snow, stannis and hound moments could be fun.



again, im just trying to throw some new ideas out there even though they are pretty damn unlikely.


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It is widely speculated that Sansa will eventually kill LF and I think she will need a pretty big catalyst to do so: the fact she trusts Sandor has already been established and he was in the Throne room to witness her father being betrayed by LF. Also if it was LF who persuaded Joff to kill Ned, so there is a good chance Sandor may know about it from Joff and relay this info to her.

I have heard this before, but i have a major problem with it. Sandor had a bunch of talks with Sansa after Ned was betrayed and beheaded about liars in Kings Landing. Why did he never mention this to her then and there? Telling her later after he had ample time and reason to inform her of such things before makes no sense.

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Why don't people listen to what GRRM says? He has specifically stated that "Cleganebowl" will not happen. Same with Grand Northern Conspiracy et cetera.





Hey folks,



I would like to get some peoples' thoughts and feelings about the Hound/Gravedigger with a few questions, and feel free to add anything you'd like:



1. Do you think Sandor's story is finished or do you think he'll come out of retirement? I don't just mean as another cameo, but actually factor back into the story in a somewhat major way?



2. Do you prefer his story to be finished or would you like him to make an impact?




3. If you believe he will return, how do you think his storyline would play out? i.e. Fight Gregor, a little Sansa relationship, etc.




I'll start off with my thoughts, or should i just say a stream of consciousness. I don't feel strongly one way or the other on whether or not GRRM will leave him at the Quiet Isle, but if I had to guess, I think that his story is over.



I would prefer for GRRM to bring him back, but would definitely have an appreciation with the whole, the Hound is dead, but Sandor is alive and in as much peace as possible idea.



If he does return, I don't see him fighting Gregor. I somewhat like the idea of SanSan, but not necessarily in a romantic way. I think Sansa will rule Winterfell at the end of the series. I can see Sandor being the Castellan or help her in a major way in gaining her seat at Winterfell.



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Personally I don't think his story is finished & that he will make a major impact in the next two books.



His return for me is likely to be for Cersei's trial. I think Bran's first raven dream foreshadows this, The giant armoured in stone, is Robert "The Mountain" Strong, The shadow with the terrible face of a Hound, is of course Sandor & the shadow armoured like the Sun, golden and beautiful, is Cersei.



For me their fates are intertwined & Brans vision was a vision of Cersei's trial.



I would like Jaime & Brienne to stop at the quite isle (not sure if its on the way to the Vale) on their way to rescue Sansa & for Sandor to channel his inner Hound & go with them to kill that little Git Littlefinger...... Wishful thinking.


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I doubt either the Hound or LS teach Arya to forgive.



We have the Ghost of HIgh Heart who can see the future and says that she is dark heart, blood child, and smelling of death. Nothing about that implies a path of forgiveness. The Hound tries to teach her mercy and to kill to end suffering her next kills are utterly without mercy. He doesn't have that much influence over her. Back to what I was saying Jon saying you will be sewing through winter. That is interpreted as she'll be killing through winter. Wolves are at their predatory height during winter not before. This matters because she has a bond with a wolf that likes to hunt and kill people. Nymeria influences her. GRRM said killing becomes almost a game for children in Arya's position. She's not there yet. I would say she is poised to get worse not better. I have no problem with that.



Plus, I think she's not really in a situation where she is poised to end up like Sandor. Most of Sandor's kills are on orders. Arya's murders are her hunting her victims and making her own decisions that she wants to kill them which is serial killer behavior and thus far more akin to Ramsay than Sandor without his excessive sick shit especially with her now checking off the kills having a sexual element to them.



She is like him with the child soldier thing but Sandor is the literal child soldier. Arya compares to them psychologically. She's not an actual child soldier. The FM aren't a paramilitary group or armed forces. Sandor worked for the equivalent of a corrupt gov.'t. Plus, the author said it was an assumption that she would be an assassin which coincides with most of her kills not being on orders. But still I'm sure when he looked them up he researched the statistics. Most of them don't change. Oh, and she also has a Macbeth moment. In that story the cycle of violence never stops.



Not to mention if he leaves the Quiet Isle and continues killing on orders only this time it's to help the Starks he really can't tell her anything.


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One of the most reliable tropes in ASOIF is GRRM's detailed descriptions about characters' physical features (i.e. Jaqen/Alchemist, Gendry, etc). One of the sellswords hired by Littlefinger has a physical description that matches up well with the Elder Brother. He has a little stubble when Brienne sees him. In the Vale, he has a beard so the timeline syncs up as well. I think the Elder Brother is in the Vale to help Sandor rescue Sansa and the plan is in already motion. Both men come out of retirement to help the Starks.



How great would it be for the sellsword to say, "I need my squire," and Sandor comes out holding a whetstone. Imagine Littlefinger's dismay. Then Sansa gives him the, "Sup now?" look.



This is not an original idea. Sorry, I can't find the OP about it.


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