The rise of racism: UK edition

[Crixus]

http://www.independent.co.uk/biography/yasmin-alibhai-brown

She's a renowned journalist, known for writing on politics, religion and such.

I find this article alarming and depressing, possible hyperbole notwithstanding. One point stood out: the fact that post 2001, it's become more acceptable and 'normal' to spout certain racist views openly and without fear of reprisal. I might be wrong but I have seen such stuff more and more frequently (especially online).

I also agree fully with her point regarding Islamist arseholes. These are people who have no basic concept of freedom or equality, yet they migrate to places like the UK and take advantage of the laws there to say shit like, 'we'll bring Shariah here!'

Fuckwads. I'd literally actually die before succumbing to Shariah here, and I was raised a Muslim (till I realized Abrahamic religions are terrifying, sadistic and false). I can imagine how horrifying such talk would be to people in other, secular countries.

[Pliskin]

The comments on the article are frightening.

[Crixus]

Yup. A few nuggets:

Diversity and multicuturalism are not to enrich us despite some aspects enriching us such as greater choice in food. Always the plan was, for over a century ago, to annihilate the white race and Christianity and divide and conquer so the ruling Talmudic Judaites who believe Christ boils in excrement in hell and sex with 3 year olds is OK and work to create usury upon us gentiles.

The usual rants of 'thengobackhomeok!'. Because no one is allowed to criticize the country they live in, ever.

The photograph tells it all. The ethnic insists in dressing as if he still in his tribal environment. He insists on speaking in his tribal tongue. He insists on treating his wife and daughters as possessions. He insists on living in a ghetto with others of his kind.

Even better, some of these cretins are using their FB to comment; so utterly confident that they have the moral high ground.

[Nymeria10k]

People have the right to live/work wherever they want, but you can't force someone to follow your beliefs. I say this as a muslim who was born and raised in the UK, and has lived here all my life so far. It's debatable whether there are certain 'rules' you must follow, e.g some might argue that if you're living in the UK you should at least be able to speak English. If you're working, then yes, you should be able to speak decent English, that's just common sense. My mum learnt English when she came to the UK after marriage and has been working for 10 years.

With regards to Islam, I look down extremely upon those who try to force their beliefs on others. It's one thing to engage in a discussion about religion, informing others about your beliefs, and another to try to force someone to agree with your point of view. It's unacceptable in any reasonable discussion, why should forcing your beliefs be acceptable when it comes to religion?

What I dislike is how some people judge an entire religion based on a few select people. We're not all suicide bombers wearing burkas trying to force Shariah in the UK or whatever these racists think. Muslims like me are content to follow English law and practice our beliefs in peace. We do adhere to Shariah principles but compatible with English Law. For example my parents want my help on making a will since I have some knowledge of trusts and wills from my studies. This will, while following Shariah guidelines, is also compatible with English Law. I don't see what's wrong with practising your own beliefs as long as it's not against the law, or bothering anyone seriously. Not all Muslims are violent but we have our assholes too, as every religion and group or whatever does. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs but spewing hatred and ignorance to a person who has nothing to do with the assholes causing trouble doesn't really help anyone. What does it do? Make you feel better? Do you do it for self-satisfaction? If so, you are a sad, sad person, gaining a sort of perverse pleasure out of other people's suffering who have done nothing wrong.

Also something interesting from my POV. I have seen plenty of racism online, there's no shortage of it. But in real life I have never been subject to a racist attack, whether verbally or physically. I wear the hijab wherever I go (not the burka though) and nobody has ever said anything untoward to me, at least not in a racial context. I don't like how some people hype all the hate up, I'm pretty sure a lot of people are more tolerant than one might think. In fact, people tend to be really curious about why I wear the hijab and other facets of my religion.

[Crixus]

Nymeria:

I agree fully about not all Muslims being alike/violent/bigoted etc. And the entire point should be the freedom to practice one's own culture/religion while also accessing the tools to live functionally and productively in the society one has migrated to. As you point out, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Re RL racism: personally, I think it's the online syndrome: people are a lot more willing to posture and spew hatred online than in real life.

[paddington]

I also agree fully with her point regarding Islamist arseholes. These are people who have no basic concept of freedom or equality, yet they migrate to places like the UK and take advantage of the laws there to say shit like, 'we'll bring Shariah here!'

Fuckwads. I'd literally actually die before succumbing to Shariah here, and I was raised a Muslim (till I realized Abrahamic religions are terrifying, sadistic and false). I can imagine how horrifying such talk would be to people in other, secular countries.

Noone I have ever met is worried about the UK being brought under Shariah law, it's almost impossible for it to happen. I really don't understand how some people can make such a fuss about it and the news media should know better. Frankly if the party for Shariah law could form an oppostion in parliment, I maybe a little concerned, but thats not going to happen in my lifetime, or probably my grandchildrens lifetime.

I think some of its online syndrome, but then I also imagine the internet gives a somewhat save area for people to express those views. In real life they could be open for prosecution, so I don't think all of it is just because comments sections are cesspools.

[Alex.]

Noone I have ever met is worried about the UK being brought under Shariah law, it's almost impossible for it to happen. I really don't understand how some people can make such a fuss about it and the news media should know better. Frankly if the party for Shariah law could form an oppostion in parliment, I maybe a little concerned, but thats not going to happen in my lifetime, or probably my grandchildrens lifetime.

I think some of its online syndrome, but then I also imagine the internet gives a somewhat save area for people to express those views. In real life they could be open for prosecution, so I don't think all of it is just because comments sections are cesspools.

The media is a massive, massive problem in this regard. Hate and fearmongering is the order of the day, every single day and it's bound to have an effect.

[Crixus]

paddington: I live in Pakistan and technically, Shariah (the fullblown evil version) isn't in force here. Religious parties have their supporters, but they have never managed to make a clean sweep, much less gain substantial seats. Politics here is largely ethnically motivated (which is another shitstorm), but people seem to have given their opinion emphatically: they haven't voted in religious parties, because they don't want Shariah.

So I completely agree that having it installed in the UK is ludicrous, and can never happen; what I find abhorrent is how such people shriek about Shariah in a non-Muslim country. They're fanatical zealots who fervently believe they're meant to convert the world. Shudder.

I also think such shit adds fuel to the conservative, UKIP lot's fire.

Re the media: hell, I watch Fox News for a laugh, and it never ceases to stun me. The sheer... absence of sense is frightening, especially when you consider how people buy into this rubbish.

Case in point: a Fox anchor interrogating Reza Aslan about why he wrote a book on Jesus, as he himself is a Muslim. No matter how many times he tried explaining that he was, in fact, a religious scholar with a boatload of degrees behind him, she reverted with: 'but being a Muslim, why did you feel the need to write about Christ'? She stripped away his identity (scholar, writer) so he was just another scary 'Muslim'. Further, she seemed to imply that no Muslim had the 'right' to write on Jesus/Christianity. Which is nothing but regressive bigotry.

I suppose I should denounce Karen Armstrong the next time she writes on Islam: how dare she???!

[paddington]

The media is a massive, massive problem in this regard. Hate and fearmongering is the order of the day, every single day and it's bound to have an effect.

It does, my 12 yr old nephew expressed his worry about Islamic terrorists to me not so long ago. He is constantly bombarded by negetives, he isnt a stupid kid, or nasty, just worried.

[SheRa Seastar]

Noone I have ever met is worried about the UK being brought under Shariah law, it's almost impossible for it to happen. I really don't understand how some people can make such a fuss about it and the news media should know better. Frankly if the party for Shariah law could form an oppostion in parliment, I maybe a little concerned, but thats not going to happen in my lifetime, or probably my grandchildrens lifetime.

I think some of its online syndrome, but then I also imagine the internet gives a somewhat save area for people to express those views. In real life they could be open for prosecution, so I don't think all of it is just because comments sections are cesspools.

My brother in law is terrified of Sharia law, he's convinced it's slowly creeping across the country. He doesn't go online, but he is the stereotypical, knuckle dragging mail reader, so racist he wouldn't let some Albanian children look at his fireworks, waiting until they'd left his street before lighting them, as though they couldn't just look up and see them.

I'm meeting idiots like him all the time lately. These people scare me more than any terrorist threat or sharia law does. Unfortunately these idiots are reacting to the idiots on the other side, shouting about infidels and whatnot. A young Muslim girl on the Stacey Dooley programme about Luton a couple of years ago said something along the lines of, it's usually the ones with the most ridiculous ideas who make the most noise, then all the normal people get tarred with the same brush.

The real problem is idiots. Race is just the unoriginal thing they are being idiotic about.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Well, how about the paradigm that we are dealing with a 1500 year old war for global domination between Christianity and Islam.

Only now we have a third major player in the mix - the adherents of secular humanism (who form the bulk of the members of this forum, no doubt). And the unfortunate thing is that the secularists come largely from the former Christian camp, thus weakening and shrinking the Christian bloc decade after decade, while the Islamic bloc is gaining strength and numbers year after year.

I foresee a future - if current trends continue - where the bulk of the Christian world drifts off to secularism, while the Islamic world remains largely untouched by this threat.

So one day soon, you will have Islam as the dominant world religion, with Christianity largely irrelevant, while the former Christians now turned secular humanists are left scratching their heads at why Islam showed no vulnerability to what the post-religious West thought was an inevitable move towards atheism for all of humanity.

Christianity is the only loser in this whole process, with Islam being the biggest winner. The secular humanists think they are winning the overall battle, but in reality they are just unbarring the gates from the inside for Islam to conquer all.

[Alex.]

BE SCAREDDDDDD

ETA: I'm more scared of people thinking they're in the middle of a 1500 year old war than I am of #CreepingSharia tbh.

[Free Northman Reborn]

Just putting it out there.

The ultimate goal of Christianity is after all to turn all people on earth into Christians. Hence the very reason for the existence of missionaries all through the ages. At its heart, it is indeed aimed at world domination.

And the same presumably applies to Islam.

[Crixus]

Yup. Islam is very open about its mission of universal conversion, actually.

[Nymeria10k]

Crixus: I agree with regards to online racism. It's easier for people to hide behind a screen and spew hatred, what are the chances you'll ever meet the targeted individual? The internet is sort of a safe place to throw out your hatred and is more 'tolerant' than say, spewing out hate in public. In public it might not be acceptable. On the internet, acceptable or not, you get your point across whether people agree or not, what are the chances they'd hunt you down or whatever? Very slim. So win-win for the racists online.

Honestly Alex just summed up the whole thing. Media is the catalyst that drives all this hatred imo. If media didn't have the power it did, where do you think this issue would stand?

Also Crixus. Can you show me where it is stated that Islam wants everyone converted to Muslims? I was always aware that the message is being spread but not that Islam was forcing everyone to be a muslim. Only dickheads like ISIS/ISIL or whatever stupid name they've come up with would do that. The point is to inform people, not force them. The choice is entirely theirs. That's how I see it anyway, obviously a *select* group of idiots would take that too far..

[paddington]

Christianity is the only loser in this whole process, with Islam being the biggest winner. The secular humanists think they are winning the overall battle, but in reality they are just unbarring the gates from the inside for Islam to conquer all.

Islam isn't and wont conquer the UK. It's around 5% of the population, and largely concentrated in larger urban areas. Frankly some of the poorest urban areas, I'd imagine if we invested, in education, housing, health that would go some way in reducing the amount of British Muslims getting radicalised. Also not invading anyone for a little while might help.

My bet is being able to have a decent standard of living, with decent prospects and nice housing would be something of a liberalising force in most communites.

[JoeyBanana]

Well, how about the paradigm that we are dealing with a 1500 year old war for global domination between Christianity and Islam.

Only now we have a third major player in the mix - the adherents of secular humanism (who form the bulk of the members of this forum, no doubt). And the unfortunate thing is that the secularists come largely from the former Christian camp, thus weakening and shrinking the Christian bloc decade after decade, while the Islamic bloc is gaining strength and numbers year after year.

I foresee a future - if current trends continue - where the bulk of the Christian world drifts off to secularism, while the Islamic world remains largely untouched by this threat.

So one day soon, you will have Islam as the dominant world religion, with Christianity largely irrelevant, while the former Christians now turned secular humanists are left scratching their heads at why Islam showed no vulnerability to what the post-religious West thought was an inevitable move towards atheism for all of humanity.

Christianity is the only loser in this whole process, with Islam being the biggest winner. The secular humanists think they are winning the overall battle, but in reality they are just unbarring the gates from the inside for Islam to conquer all.

Nonsense. Islam is divided as ever and groups like ISIS only make it worse, or better, depending on your POV.

Whereas the catholic church in particular, is..let's say...quite clever or devious at using humanitarian aid and welfare to convert & expand their areas of influence and in some cases, even power. Additionally, as opposed to Iran & Saudi-Arabia, the Vatican is an "accepted" theocracy that has no existing external or internal threaths endangering its sovereignty and will never have to fear a revolution. Be afraid of their return, my friend, it's not some odd coincidence that people like Dawkins keep warning about religion, especially the christian one.

I was exaggerating of course, but see, you can make a case for everything to be on the "rise" or a future menace.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

My uncle keeps sharing statuses from the Britain First facebook page and it really pisses me off.

[Wise Fool]

Well, how about the paradigm that we are dealing with a 1500 year old war for global domination between Christianity and Islam.

Only now we have a third major player in the mix - the adherents of secular humanism (who form the bulk of the members of this forum, no doubt). And the unfortunate thing is that the secularists come largely from the former Christian camp, thus weakening and shrinking the Christian bloc decade after decade, while the Islamic bloc is gaining strength and numbers year after year.

I foresee a future - if current trends continue - where the bulk of the Christian world drifts off to secularism, while the Islamic world remains largely untouched by this threat.

So one day soon, you will have Islam as the dominant world religion, with Christianity largely irrelevant, while the former Christians now turned secular humanists are left scratching their heads at why Islam showed no vulnerability to what the post-religious West thought was an inevitable move towards atheism for all of humanity.

Christianity is the only loser in this whole process, with Islam being the biggest winner. The secular humanists think they are winning the overall battle, but in reality they are just unbarring the gates from the inside for Islam to conquer all.

That's not really a paradigm so much as an insane rant. You're like one step removed from the commenters on the article going on about the Jews.

Not even one step removed, really. It's the same thing. You think it's different, that your grandiose Nostradamus-like predictions and generalizations about Islam are especially true where similar bullshit about Jews is, of course, false -- except it's not different.

In the end, you're demonstrating what the article is about, in a sense. Lots of racism about. Apparently in the UK it's becoming more in-your-face and up-front. But most of the time it's hidden in layers of delusional idiocy.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I'd read an account from a Hindu man in the UK where he didn't like the use of the term "Asian" since that lumped him in with the Pakistanis, and therefore Muslims.

Is that a common mindset?