The rise of racism: UK edition

[Maltaran]

ETA: Though maybe it's different in the U.K. Are people of Indian origin usually referred to as Asian there?

Yep, Asian in the UK generally means subcontinental, as opposed to the US where it usually means East Asian.

[Alex.]

I'd assume subcontinent if I heard "Asian", though that night be affected by my Vines family who are very insistent they are Chinese and not Asian. Don't know if that's normal.

[Malik Ambar]

My daughter's considering UK as an option for higher education. Good or bad idea? I mean can she manage herself, is it like really hostile, or tough for lone foreign students there now? (Indian here, btw).

[Malik Ambar]

I'd read an account from a Hindu man in the UK where he didn't like the use of the term "Asian" since that lumped him in with the Pakistanis, and therefore Muslims.

Is that a common mindset?

Maybe it was because of the recent attacks on Sikhs and hindus when poor vigilantes ' confused ' them for al qaida ?

[polishgenius]

I'd assume subcontinent if I heard "Asian", though that night be affected by my Vines family who are very insistent they are Chinese and not Asian. Don't know if that's normal.

I'm pretty sure thinking of 'Asian' as being from the subcontinent is the usual thing in the UK. What Americans call Asian would in the UK be East Asian or ocasionally, to the horror of the US audience, 'oriental'.

[Nymeria10k]

In the UK, at least where I leave, 'asian' usually refers to indian/pakistani people, not particularly sure why. Oriental people are referred to as oriental. Interestingly enough, I had this discussion with a Canadian friend once, where he is, asian people usually means oriental and indian/pakistanis are just indian/pakistanis.

I think part of why racism is becoming so rampant here is that people create divides where there are none.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/11227004/British-Muslim-woman-why-cant-I-make-any-white-friends.html

Take this for example. I saw this on facebook so I mentioned that it is articles like these that drive us apart. I have many non-muslim friends and we all get along just fine. In fact I don't think many people are intolerant of other cultures, it's this 'we aren't welcome' mentality that pisses others off. In my experience, most people don't really give a damn what you are or what beliefs you have, if you treat others how you want to be treated then you'll be respected by others.

Some people agreed, but there were also the typical 'go home' comments which really is ignorant.

This is what I said:

You know what I find really ignorant? When people tell me, in no uncertain terms, to 'go back to your country' because I'm not wanted, or I can go elsewhere to practice my culture.

1. I do not agree with any form of extremism at all, and I can safely say that this is the opinion of the majority of muslims in the UK as well. Every group/society, whether religious or otherwise, has its bad eggs and muslims do too. It is not wise to judge all muslims on the actions of a select few when you yourself would find it scandalous if you or someone else from your group were to be judged that way. Many like myself are content to practice our beliefs in peace without harming anyone or going against the law.

2. You can't just tell every muslim or anyone who isn't sufficiently 'british' to 'go home. First of all, Samantha is correct. Britain has always been a melting pot of cultures and if you have a problem with people not being british enough to live here then by your logic most of the british population has no right to live here. Second of all, I can't just 'go home'. Home to what country? I'm 20 years old, I was born in the UK and I have lived and worked in the same city my entire life, I have never lived outside UK and this is the place I call home. This definition would apply to a whole lot of other people too, on what basis do you decide who has the right to live here and who doesn't? If two people, one muslim, one non muslim, both have grown up and worked in the UK, how can you decide that the muslim has no right to live here because of their beliefs? If wearing the hijab in public makes me frightening in anyway (I don't wear the veil) then it is just shallow and ignorant, sorry to say.

Articles like the above are simply crude and ignorant, trying to create a divide where there is none. Like I said, every society or group has its bad eggs but the majority of people are not intolerant. From my experiences, I have met people from all walks of life, both online and in real life, and I have rarely (never in real life) had to deal with abuse because of my religion. To put it into context, I have had people be rude to me and make nasty comments but that is because of my actions as a person, not as a muslim, it is not religion that defines us but our behaviour as a person. Judging a religion of 1.6 billion people by the actions of a few is like saying an entire box of eggs is rotten because it has a single broken egg in it. Illogical.

[deleted01]

My daughter's considering UK as an option for higher education. Good or bad idea? I mean can she manage herself, is it like really hostile, or tough for lone foreign students there now? (Indian here, btw).

It depends on where she's thinking about studying. There are certain areas that are not yet multicultured - the south west, for example. It may be easier in places like London and Birmingham, off the top of my head. Generally I wouldn't describe our attitude as hostile - most people simply don't care what colour someone's skin is or what religion they subscribe to. There are some bad apples, of course, but generally people are alright, particularly in places that are a vibrant mixture of people. Someone else with different experiences may have more to say on this matter though.

The only thing I'd say about our higher education is that it's damn expensive, particularly for foreign students.

[Nymeria10k]

My daughter's considering UK as an option for higher education. Good or bad idea? I mean can she manage herself, is it like really hostile, or tough for lone foreign students there now? (Indian here, btw).

Basically what Dracarya said. Manchester isn't a bad option either, very multicultural and diverse here, there are more foreigners here than natives. I'm sure she'd feel right at home :) and there are plenty of indian students here (myself included except I'm not from india)

Just bear in mind it is extremely expensive here, it depends on the course, but it is very expensive for foreign students over here, I think it's around £16,000 a year? Not sure. And accommodation is very expensive too, especially in the first year (can get it for cheaper after) depending on whether it is self-catering or catered, you're looking at anywhere between £100-£130 a week. It really depends where you go. Subsequent years can be anything from £60+ a week. This is in Manchester, if she happens to go to London or somewhere like Bristol then it will be even more expensive. Just make she knows about the costs involved :)

[Raja]

Marting RR,

Yeah, essentially what Dracarya said in her post. You're going to find idiots everywhere, and the UK is no exception. But by and large, the people are nice enough. I'm sure you've looked into the expenses, it's especially true of courses like Medicine where it can go up to 23-24 per year in the final couple of years. That being said, it depends on the courses you're taking, I know medicine is one of the more expensive ones. It's expensive, but probably not even close to how expensive the US can be for foreign students.

[polishgenius]

In the UK, at least where I leave, 'asian' usually refers to indian/pakistani people, not particularly sure why.

Because there are three times as many people in the UK from or descended from India, Pakistan or Bangladesh than the rest of Asia put together. Largely, I'd imagine, due to the legacy of the Empire and the fact those countries are in the Commonwealth.

[Which Tyler]

Only 3 times?

[TerraPrime]

Because there are three times as many people in the UK from or descended from India, Pakistan or Bangladesh than the rest of Asia put together. Largely, I'd imagine, due to the legacy of the Empire and the fact those countries are in the Commonwealth.

The endogenous population is a factor, too. Hong Kong and Singapore were also Crown colonies, but you don't see as many ethnic Chinese in the UK. I don't know if the UK had a different immigration policy regarding India as it did HK and Singapore, but my impression as I was growing up in HK is that it's pretty fucking difficult to immigrate to the Mother Land as a colonist. You'd have to be rich and/or high skilled to be considered and low-skill labor were simplu not wanted.

[ljkeane]

There was a period post war when the government was actively encouraging immigration from Pakistan and India (and the West Indies) because there was a labour shortage. You probably could have emmigrated reasonably easily as a British subject from Hong Kong in the same time period, but I don't think there was an active policy of encouraging it. Later on though there was a deliberate policy of making it more difficult to emmigrate from Hong Kong because they were concerned about how many people might want to do it prior to 1997.

[polishgenius]

I don't know anything about where it is and has been easier to emigrate to the UK from, but don't forget that Hong Kong and SIngapore are single cities, as opposed to three of the ten most populous countries in the world.

[deleted01]

Re university: a lot of people go into halls, for ease, but they really are extortionate. I used the UCAS website to find housemates and moved straight into a house. £80 a week all inclusive, 5 minute walk from the uni, only 4 others to deal with. Halls never appealed to me - too many people I don't know, too small, too noisy, usually no parking, and very expensive. You just have to watch any of the student TV programmes to see why halls can be so terrible.

Halls may be easier for foreign students, but with t'interwebz, it's pretty easy to find like-minded people (whatever that means to an individual) to move into a house with.

[lessthanluke]

Re university: a lot of people go into halls, for ease, but they really are extortionate. I used the UCAS website to find housemates and moved straight into a house. £80 a week all inclusive, 5 minute walk from the uni, only 4 others to deal with. Halls never appealed to me - too many people I don't know, too small, too noisy, usually no parking, and very expensive. You just have to watch any of the student TV programmes to see why halls can be so terrible.

Halls may be easier for foreign students, but with t'interwebz, it's pretty easy to find like-minded people (whatever that means to an individual) to move into a house with.

Different for everyone. I loved living in halls in my first year and would never have just moved straight into a house.

[deleted01]

Different for everyone. I loved living in halls in my first year and would never have just moved straight into a house.

Of course. As someone who doesn't drink and doesn't particularly like parties, I would have been in the minority in halls. Luckily I found housemates who were either the same as me, or were considerate with their nights out. Halls are a bit more of a risk, because of the sheer number of people. But if the above is your thing, or you don't mind the things I mentioned before, halls are great.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Different for everyone. I loved living in halls in my first year and would never have just moved straight into a house.

:agree: I'm in student accommodation now and I feel as if I'd be missing out if I wasn't.

[lessthanluke]

Of course. As someone who doesn't drink and doesn't particularly like parties, I would have been in the minority in halls. Luckily I found housemates who were either the same as me, or were considerate with their nights out. Halls are a bit more of a risk, because of the sheer number of people. But if the above is your thing, or you don't mind the things I mentioned before, halls are great.

Yeah I love drinking and parties so halls were a lot of fun.

[Alex.]

I was one of about three people in my entire halls who wasn't a medical student. That was an eye opener, let me tell you