97 replies to this topic

[mnyquist]

I think it'd be really cool to have some more information on the various Deities in the world.

Sure, we know that the majority of people worship The Father, Mother, Maiden, Crone, Smith, Warrior and Stranger, but how do they interact? Is there a creation myth, perhaps?

Now ditto that for the old Gods, the Lord of Light and maybe even the gods of the Dothraki.

I know it's a lot, but how cool would that be?

[cybroleach]

mnyquist, on Sep 11 2006, 16.23, said:

I think it'd be really cool to have some more information on the various Deities in the world.

Sure, we know that the majority of people worship The Father, Mother, Maiden, Crone, Smith, Warrior and Stranger, but how do they interact? Is there a creation myth, perhaps?

Now ditto that for the old Gods, the Lord of Light and maybe even the gods of the Dothraki.

I know it's a lot, but how cool would that be?

Well i not sure what you mean here since the Seven and Rhollor seem pretty well fleshed out.
However on a simalar note the Old Gods and their worship is very mysterous (i dont know if this is intensional or just the Northerners nature) but it be nice to get a better understanding of what their worshipers beleive: like why they cant name their gods, are their times when they are required to pray, mythos related to these gods, if their are any devotes (preists) of the order.

[Ran]

Interesting. Hadn't really gone too far in discussing that side of things. I'd guess that material would fit best into any stuff we do on particular regions.

[mnyquist]

cybroleach, on Sep 12 2006, 14.39, said:

Well i not sure what you mean here since the Seven and Rhollor seem pretty well fleshed out.
However on a simalar note the Old Gods and their worship is very mysterous (i dont know if this is intensional or just the Northerners nature) but it be nice to get a better understanding of what their worshipers beleive: like why they cant name their gods, are their times when they are required to pray, mythos related to these gods, if their are any devotes (preists) of the order.

What I was going for was kind of how the gods relate to each other. Are the father and mother married, ala Zeus and Hera? Does the smith often walk among mortals for some reason? Did they come from anywhere? How was Westeros created? Are the gods said to reside somewhere? (perhaps far across the ocean, or on an entirely differfent plane of existance.) Things along those lines. We know who the gods are, but we really dont know that much about the mythology of them.

[Werthead]

We know something from ADWD spoilers:

SPOILER: ADWD

The Seven apparently appeared incarnate among the people of the Hills of Andalos (south of Pentos in the Free Cities), which became the basis for the religion of the Faith of the Seven and the start of the Andal culture. It may be that the Seven encouraged the Andals to migrate to Westeros.

Finding out creation myths and the like could be interesting though.

[Ran]

Mostly the Andals went west because they were trying to get away from Valyria. ;) Typical displacement pattern.

[Mister Manticore]

mnyquist, on Sep 12 2006, 16.54, said:

What I was going for was kind of how the gods relate to each other. Are the father and mother married, ala Zeus and Hera? Does the smith often walk among mortals for some reason? Did they come from anywhere? How was Westeros created? Are the gods said to reside somewhere? (perhaps far across the ocean, or on an entirely differfent plane of existance.) Things along those lines. We know who the gods are, but we really dont know that much about the mythology of them.

I would say that it's likely that the Worship of the Seven is not so big on the Greek Mythology-stories, and more on the philosophical, at least somewhat among the more learned.  But I could be wrong.

[Werthead]

Ran, on Sep 21 2006, 23.00, said:

Mostly the Andals went west because they were trying to get away from Valyria. ;) Typical displacement pattern.

Erm, wasn't the Valyrian Freehold only founded 5,000 years ago (according to the Astapori slavers in ASoS)? And the Andals went to Westeros 6,000 years ago?

Unless you know something we don't... ;)

[Ran]

Ghis fell to Valyria five thousand years ago, during the fifth and final of its wars with Valyria.  I suspect Valyria's growth into a power began at least several hundred years prior to that, and perhaps a thousand or more.

In any case, I mentioned that I had speculated the Andals invaded Westeros because of being displaced by the Valyrians, and he chuckled and said that was basically it -- they were trying to get away.

Edited by Ran, 22 September 2006 - 02:49 PM.

[Werthead]

Very interesting, since the Rhoyne, which was nearer to the Freehold than the Andalos Hills, didn't fall to the Valyrians until only 1,000 years ago (4,000 years after the fall of Ghis). Maybe there was a threat of the Valyrians advancing west, but for some reason they never did advance and instead went east or north, or just stayed in their own borders? Finding out the distance from Valyria to the Free Cities would be a good clue to this, and hopefully one solved by the new map in ADWD.

The stop-start expansion of Valyria could be an interesting topic for the world book ;)

Edited by Werthead, 23 September 2006 - 06:47 PM.

[cybroleach]

Maybe their High Septon got a message from the Gods telling him of the Valyrians and their Dragon's and that unless they sailed west it would mean death to their people.

[Werthead]

It would be interesting to get the Rhoynar-Andal relationship as well. It's said that the Rhoynar taught smithing to the Andals, but not much else about the relationship is revealed.

[Lyanna Stark-Targaryen]

I would love that.  I like the Seven as a concept, the idea that you can pray to the different faces has been done before, but I like it a lot in ASOIAF for some reason.  The Stranger in particular intrigues me.  At the same time, I'd LOVE to know more about the Old Gods.

[Brienne=Azor]

I'm going out on a limb here. Does anyone think the following things are possible?
1) All these gods/goddesses are aspects of the "many faced god"?
2) The 7 if they were incarnate in the past are coming back again through characters we know and love?
  Consider this: Stranger = arya
Mother = dany
Warrior = Brienne (or Jon, because I think Brienne will be Azor A'hai)
Maiden = Sansa
      Smith = Gendry
Crone = Margery's grandmother (can't believe I can't think of her name, but she's one of the few "wise" women portrayed in the story.)
Father = This one is the toughest for me... I want to say Ned, but I think the "gods incarnate" need to live until the end of the war.
  ... I guess my award for the father would go to Davos

  If Azor A'hai is different from the Warrior (which he/she might not be if these are indeed, faces of the many faced god) then I believe it's Brienne for a few reasons, but I posted all of those in another post.

Another wackadoodle theory I have is that Dany will never make it back to Westeros. She will take over her original home. The Targs came from Valaryia right? Why not take over there. I believe that the Wall is one of the hinges of the world, and Valaryia is the other. Evil things are bottled up within, and all those folks in Essos will have to fight fiery evil back down in Valaryia, while the WEsteros residents beat back the cold evil in Essos.  The difference is this: Some of the Westeros folks are actually ready for the battle.
That theory is admittedly a bit more farfetched.

[The only son]

Brienne=Azor, on 12 October 2011 - 04:51 PM, said:

I'm going out on a limb here. Does anyone think the following things are possible?
1) All these gods/goddesses are aspects of the "many faced god"?
2) The 7 if they were incarnate in the past are coming back again through characters we know and love?
  Consider this: Stranger = arya
Mother = dany
Warrior = Brienne (or Jon, because I think Brienne will be Azor A'hai)
Maiden = Sansa
Smith = Gendry
Crone = Margery's grandmother (can't believe I can't think of her name, but she's one of the few "wise" women portrayed in the story.)
Father = This one is the toughest for me... I want to say Ned, but I think the "gods incarnate" need to live until the end of the war.
  ... I guess my award for the father would go to Davos

  If Azor A'hai is different from the Warrior (which he/she might not be if these are indeed, faces of the many faced god) then I believe it's Brienne for a few reasons, but I posted all of those in another post.

Wow what a great theory!

IMO I find it difficult for the Stark children ,who have been choose/helped by the Old Gods< would become one of the seven incarnate. Arya makes sense though....Jon and Sansa pray to the Old Gods.

Some of the other charactes you mentioned have not had any chapters dedicated to them. Not sure if it matters.

Davos is spot on if your theory is correct.

[voodooqueen126]

I think the Valyrian gods were like Greco-Roman ones.
and also Golden Legend like book would be awesome in Westeros...
so inaccurate and anti-firstmen, but so right for the period of history.
http://www.amazon.co...duct/0140446486

[Bad Dog]

I second the interest in the gods of Valyria.

Also, what exactly does the 7-pointed Star contain? Does it have stories in it like the Bible, or is it some kind of catechism?

[BrosBeforeSnows]

mnyquist, on 11 September 2006 - 03:23 PM, said:

I think it'd be really cool to have some more information on the various Deities in the world.

Sure, we know that the majority of people worship The Father, Mother, Maiden, Crone, Smith, Warrior and Stranger, but how do they interact? Is there a creation myth, perhaps?

Now ditto that for the old Gods, the Lord of Light and maybe even the gods of the Dothraki.

I know it's a lot, but how cool would that be?

I want to know more about the Goat Lord of Qohor (not really, but I do like saying "Goat Lord of Qohor").

Also, how did the Lhazareen ever get into worshipping sheep when they were surrounded by horselords and dragonlords? Seems like a pretty lame god to turn to when you're surrounded by a bunch of cold-blooded killers.

[voodooqueen126]

have I already said I want to know about the religion of the Norvosi and I seriously do want to know about religion in Qohor and Lorath too.

[Brienne=Azor]

The only son, on 12 October 2011 - 05:47 PM, said:

Wow what a great theory!

IMO I find it difficult for the Stark children ,who have been choose/helped by the Old Gods< would become one of the seven incarnate. Arya makes sense though....Jon and Sansa pray to the Old Gods.

Some of the other charactes you mentioned have not had any chapters dedicated to them. Not sure if it matters.

Davos is spot on if your theory is correct.

Oh yea, what was I thinking on that. That's what I get for posting before thinking it through... :-)
Actually though, part of what I was thinking was that the 7, and the old gods, R'hollor, etc. might all be different "faces" of the many faced God. (Hence the faces on the Weirwood trees - many faces = many faced God.)  So, I guess what I said would still sort of work. I know it's far fetched, and I'm likely overthinking, but this story has a pending apocolypse feel, so maybe the many faced god is gathering folks in Westeros AND Essos to help fight the battle against impending evil. He/she/it is just using it's many faces to rally folks.
All of that said, that's why I LOVE reading this series. I can speculate all day, be wrong 99.99 percent of the time, but still love every minute of my wrong-ness.