Video Game Culture 8: everyone is a winnar

[Relic]

Which is why we should... stop talking about it?

How bout you try reading what I wrote?

What have you accomplished in 8 threads other than snark, bickering, and telling people to put other people on ignore? You aren't getting anywhere talking to the gg idiots, so go to the source. The culture that gives birth to them. Might have more luck there. Unless you only want to come on here and show us how angry you are all the time.

[paddington]

Which is why we should... stop talking about it?

Nope, it's why you should be looking at prosecuting people for posting extreme sexual abuse/harrasement online. An for that to be effective I am guessing some of the annomity would need to be removed.

[l2 0 5 5]

I only discovered this topic during the seventh thread (unfortunate, I know) and pardon if this has been brought up, but I've noticed a more hostile community of gamers when I play a multiplayer game (Halo, TF2, etc..) that allows a larger field of players, as opposed to a smaller, more intimate setting like Left 4 Dead, where only four people max can play together. Yeah, you get the occasional ass who gets enjoyment out of throwing a molotov on top of everyone, but for the most part, everyone is cooperative and respectful of each other, regardless of gender.

I'm curious if anyone else has had this experience.

[Solmyr]

Nope, it's why you should be looking at prosecuting people for posting extreme sexual abuse/harrasement online. An for that to be effective I am guessing some of the annomity would need to be removed.

Removing anonymity should make any sane person feel less safe on the internet. If I am harassed or receive even a death threat on the internet, I would not put much stock in it, due to the current level of anonymity. Strip the anonymity and even rational people would have cause to fear for their safety.

[Relic]

Removing anonymity should make any sane person feel less safe on the internet. If I am harassed or receive even a death threat on the internet, I would not put much stock in it, due to the current level of anonymity. Strip the anonymity and even rational people would have cause to fear for their safety.

One of the answers is definitely better moderation. Strict bans for slurs, threats, and other unacceptable behavior. If you clean up chat in game you start conditioning people to act differently. Of course this requires companies to ban a percentage of their income, which no one really wants to do. However, i think you would see a drastic improvement in a very short amount of time if a hardline approach was taken to deal with douchebaggery.

[Relic]

I only discovered this topic during the seventh thread (unfortunate, I know) and pardon if this has been brought up, but I've noticed a more hostile community of gamers when I play a multiplayer game (Halo, TF2, etc..) that allows a larger field of players, as opposed to a smaller, more intimate setting like Left 4 Dead, where only four people max can play together. Yeah, you get the occasional ass who gets enjoyment out of throwing a molotov on top of everyone, but for the most part, everyone is cooperative and respectful of each other, regardless of gender.

I'm curious if anyone else has had this experience.

Not really, no. I played a fair bit of League of Legends back in the day, and even tho teams were limited to 5 people the amount of vile shit that was being thrown around in chat was absolutely disgraceful. Riot seemed interested in cleaning up and improving the experience for people who didn't appreciate the flaming culture, but 'm not sure how much they actually accomplished. I haven't played a game of League in like 18 months, but im pretty sure if i would find not much has changed.

[Guy Kilmore]

One of the answers is definitely better moderation. Strict bans for slurs, threats, and other unacceptable behavior. If you clean up chat in game you start conditioning people to act differently. Of course this requires companies to ban a percentage of their income, which no one really wants to do. However, i think you would see a drastic improvement in a very short amount of time if a hardline approach was taken to deal with douchebaggery.

I still think that a Jerk pool is the way to go. Enough people flag you as a dink, then when you log in you just share the que with other dinks. Company makes their money, the dinks can keep on dinking with the other dinks, and the other customers are free from the dinkage. Of course it would, again, take resources to enforce.

[TrueMetis]

I still think that a Jerk pool is the way to go. Enough people flag you as a dink, then when you log in you just share the que with other dinks. Company makes their money, the dinks can keep on dinking with the other dinks, and the other customers are free from the dinkage. Of course it would, again, take resources to enforce.

Sounds like the leavers set up blizzard's putting in for Heroes of the Storm.

[TerraPrime]

While the name "GamerGate" is perhaps not very wide known outside of the internet-active subgroup of gamers, the phenomenon of some gamers lashing out aggressively at others who are trying to promote inclusive and diverse gaming environment or who offer criticism of sexism, racism, and homophobia in games and/or gamers, should not be new to anyone who play the mainstream multiplayer games on consoles and computers. So the outcome of this quick survey of your friends really doesn't do much to address the issues other than to say that your friends don't really attention to the backchannels of gaming, i.e. they don't follow gaming blogs or don't read gaming culture sites. The issues are still there and they still need to be addressed, whether it is known under a particular banner or not.

[eyenon15]

I still think that a Jerk pool is the way to go. Enough people flag you as a dink, then when you log in you just share the que with other dinks. Company makes their money, the dinks can keep on dinking with the other dinks, and the other customers are free from the dinkage. Of course it would, again, take resources to enforce.

Would this solve the issue of being inclusive?

Say there is a multiplayer game that is dominated by players with harassing and sexist attitudes. If a female player gets on the mic and calls out people for racist or sexist attitudes, couldn't enough of the other players get together and report the female player that criticizes the sexist or harassing nature?

Would there be enough reported players to form their own pool that way?

[Inigima]

Relic:

Re: addressing Gamergaters, so far I think it's gone well. The refusal to accept such horrid behavior and the negative media coverage is the appropriate response, and the "movement" has not fared well. I am satisfied to continue calling out unacceptable behavior like threats and harassment.

Re: League of Legends, there are still jerks, but I think Riot has done a good job and the situation is much improved.

[Relic]

Relic:

Re: addressing Gamergaters, so far I think it's gone well. The refusal to accept such horrid behavior and the negative media coverage is the appropriate response, and the "movement" has not fared well. I am satisfied to continue calling out unacceptable behavior like threats and harassment.

Look, so am I but in term of these treads...well we might as well be yelling into a vacuum. I'd be more in branching out this discussion than debating with the same three people endessly.

[Shryke]

Look, so am I but in term of these treads...well we might as well be yelling into a vacuum. I'd be more in branching out this discussion than debating with the same three people endessly.

Well, thankfully, no one is doing that right now and instead talking about the movement in general. Which is a nice change. I don't have to skip past most pages anymore.

[Relic]

Well, thankfully, no one is doing that right now and instead talking about the movement in general. Which is a nice change. I don't have to skip past most pages anymore.

You'll note my response originally was to this:

"I am unsure why another issue of the Video Game Culture thread series begins with an opening post about Gamergate. This greatly narrows the context of the discussion." posted by Solmyr

[Guy Kilmore]

Would this solve the issue of being inclusive?

Say there is a multiplayer game that is dominated by players with harassing and sexist attitudes. If a female player gets on the mic and calls out people for racist or sexist attitudes, couldn't enough of the other players get together and report the female player that criticizes the sexist or harassing nature?

Would there be enough reported players to form their own pool that way?

Same thing would still happen, the dinks would be playing with the dinks and the non dinks with non dinks, at least in a game dominated by harassing players. I don't think that is really the case though for most games and because it would take several reports over several games, I think that would be hard to manage. I also think if a moderating team randomly listens to a couple of reported ones or whatever, it wouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Other games have or propose this system. I thing DOTA2 and League of Legends has it for people who abandoned games and get constantly downgraded.

Not saying that this method would solve sexist attitudes or whatever, but might cut down on some of the harassment that others experiences.

[eyenon15]

Same thing would still happen, the dinks would be playing with the dinks and the non dinks with non dinks, at least in a game dominated by harassing players. I don't think that is really the case though for most games and because it would take several reports over several games, I think that would be hard to manage. I also think if a moderating team randomly listens to a couple of reported ones or whatever, it wouldn't be that hard to figure out.

Other games have or propose this system. I thing DOTA2 and League of Legends has it for people who abandoned games and get constantly downgraded.

Not saying that this method would solve sexist attitudes or whatever, but might cut down on some of the harassment that others experiences.

I like the idea, I was just trying to think of ways it could backfire or be exploited.

Whatever games do I would hope they include some serious type of appeal process and not just you are kicked out and that's that.

[Shryke]

You'll note my response originally was to this:

"I am unsure why another issue of the Video Game Culture thread series begins with an opening post about Gamergate. This greatly narrows the context of the discussion." posted by Solmyr

It still seems a silly comment since Gamerghazi is the story in video gaming culture right now.

[TerraPrime]

Guy and eyenon:

No system will be perfect, but having a system in place is better than not having a system in place. One of the clear signs that an organization is sensitive to issues of online harassment is whether they have a formal policy defining the consequences for it, or not.

Like for instance, Wert posted a pic of the convention he went to where there was a prominent sign board outlining what behaviors are considered to be harassing and then listing the consequences of being caught harassing others. Simply having a sign up will make the environment better even if nobody makes a complaint on it.

So, comparing LoL's voting system to WoW's complain-to-GM system, the LoL system gives players more stake in the game and more incentive to be nicer to each other, imo.

[Guy Kilmore]

Guy and eyenon:

No system will be perfect, but having a system in place is better than not having a system in place. One of the clear signs that an organization is sensitive to issues of online harassment is whether they have a formal policy defining the consequences for it, or not.

Like for instance, Wert posted a pic of the convention he went to where there was a prominent sign board outlining what behaviors are considered to be harassing and then listing the consequences of being caught harassing others. Simply having a sign up will make the environment better even if nobody makes a complaint on it.

So, comparing LoL's voting system to WoW's complain-to-GM system, the LoL system gives players more stake in the game and more incentive to be nicer to each other, imo.

I would agree with this. Having a system that people understand will curtail a ton of behavior, even just published guidelines. Its like having a lock on a screen door, it keeps the honest people honest. Having a system that is enforced will further curtail people who might be more willing to push on that screen door.

[eyenon15]

Sure a system is better than nothing. Just because it's better than nothing doesn't mean discussion should stop on how to make it better than better than nothing.

Better than nothing is a pretty mediocre place to end progress.

From a buyer perspective, something is better than nothing.

Not so sure from the developers standpoint, something will be better than nothing in every case.

I mean (correct me if I'm wrong) LoL and WoW both have a system in place , aren't there still complaints about harassment even though there are systems in place?

I've never played either of those games so I'm not sure about what they have.