What the hell did happen at Summerhall?

[Lord Varys]

Well, that is not really supported by the text of any of the novels. It makes little sense to me to completely ignore all the hints about Varys' youth we have been given in the books (born a slave in Lys, an apprentice mummer in his childhood, castrated in Myr by the sorcerer, teaming up with Illyrio in Pentos shortly thereafter).

As I see the character, those are not just fancy tales. Some details may be missing (say, Varys' heritage and motivation). Varys could be Maegor's or a Blackfyre descendant, but even if he is, I think we should operate under the assumption that he was actually born in slavery, did spent his childhood among mummers, and was castrated in Myr in exactly the way he described to Tyrion.

Depending on his age, TWoIaF gave us a pretty interesting new clue for Varys' ancestry:

He could be the son of the fourth Daemon Blackfyre, the one Maelys killed to take over Golden Company. Maelys could have sold his young pregnant wife into slavery, and no one would have ever learned that there was still another Blackfyre from the male line (or a sister of Daemon's suffered exactly that fate).

On Summerhall:

Well, I really abhor this obsession with blood sacrifice. Nothing suggests that Egg intended to sacrifice himself or infant Rhaegar. That makes no sense to me.

Aegon V was not mad, nor did he believe in the prophecy about the promised prince (he was not supportive of Jaehaerys' notion to marry Aerys to Rhaella, after all). All Egg wanted to do was to bring the dragons back because he dreamed about their return, and because he felt they would help him with his reforms. He was not a mad nut case.

Since Betha is not described as being dead, I'd think she was alive to see Summerhall (and died there). I really hate those idea that all the queens die prematurely.

[Gerion Lannister]

I thought the setup indicated by TWOIAF is the possibility of another historical text penned by "Archmaester Gyldayn".

I'd expect this and not the end of the D&E novellas to give us a full description of what happened at Summerhall.

[Clueless Northman]

The fragment states that there were *seven* dragon eggs brought to Summerhall.

So the purpose was probably not to sacrifice one or two people to hatch one or two dragons, but more probably to try to hatch all of them if possible.

Egg might have tried to do this with wildfire - probably assuming wildfire was hot enough to heat the eggs and bring some life back to the dragons.

At least, the catastrophe is obviously due to wildfire wrecking havoc throughout the palace.

This going bad was obviously totally unexpected and Egg must have thought the whole thing was perfectly safe, since he gathered many Targaryens there - clearly to improve the chances of hatching dragons, or to be able to tie dragons and Targs as soon as they hatched. Which might explain why he brought Rhaella there - Egg wanted future king Rhaegar to have his dragon since the very beginning, and said dragon would already be a fierce beast when Rhaegar would come of age.

As for why... If he tried to sacrifice Rhaegar, I can see Dunk intervening to stop it, and the whole thing backfires badly.

Still, the way Barristan thinks about it, he implied that it was more probably some noble faction who might have sabotaged the whole thing, and what should've been a controlled use of wildfire went terribly wrong. The only thing that looks weird is that if this was treason by some nobles, there should've been a bloody punishment right after, and the whole sorry thing should be as infamous as the Defiance of Duskendale or the Red Wedding, but instead we only know of "the tragedy of Summerhall". Or was the treason dealt with secretly afterwards?

[walkingWITHcersei]

The most gruesome theory I read was the suggestion that Aegon V tried to sacrifice newborn Rhaegar to hatch the eggs.

Yea and there's a theory (preston Jacobs on YouTube can't remember his name on here) that the cache of missing wildfire Jamie was unable to locate, post sacking of KL, ended up in the base of the ToJ, and that some blood sacrifice was about to go down there as well. Explains why the KG would stop Ned from seeing his sister, and explains how Ned and a tiny crannogman alone (reputedly lol) were able to take down the tower. It's looking more and more to me that Rhaegar did steal and rape Lyanna, and that he might have been planning something really fucked up Rhollor style at the Tower.

[jet199]

Seeing how important misreading dragon dreams have been in the Dunk and Egg tales so far I think it is likely that someone had a dream about a dragon being born at Summerhall. Aemon says that dreams killed his brothers so I am thinking that Egg had the dream that got everyone there and organised the ritual.

However I don't think Egg will turn out to be the main person pushing the dragon ritual or prophesy. The world book says that Egg though that dragons would be useful but surely he would have learnt that dragons in dreams usually represent Targs rather than actual dragons. Also I think if Egg thought forcing through his reforms with dragons was ever going to be a good long term plan then he was more crazy than Aerys which I haven't seen any sign of yet. I think it is likely that someone else was pushing for dragons, someone who Egg would be happy to help out, and my theory is that person was Jaehaerys.

The elopement of Jaehaerys and his sister does not seem like a love match to me. It seems more like either a power grab or something done for the sake of prophesy. I wonder if Jaehaerys is where the rot starts to set in with TPTWP prophecy being seen as something which needs to be brought about. Certainly Egg doesn't approve of the marriage of Aerys and Rhaella, even though TPTWP is supposed to be born of their line, and lets it go ahead to please Jaehaerys who is the one pushing for it. I wonder if Jaehaerys thought he was TPTWP and then later thought that his son would be, like Rhaegar did later. Then asked the GHH who told him something (it is unlikely she was specific, see her other prophecies) which made him believe it would be his grandson (there might be something suspicious going on here with Jenny getting Duncan the Small away from the throne and then her friend heavily influencing the person next in line, maybe the CofF were making a play at getting rid of the Targs).

This could be interesting as if Aerys was brought up thinking he was important to the destiny of the world by his father and then one day he was told it wasn't him who was special but Rhaegar so he had to give up the love of his life and marry his sister you would expect him to come out of it seriously messed up. It would explain why he was so jealous and suspicious of his son and why they had such a strained relationship. It would also mean that Rhaegar's strangeness didn't come just from his personality but from an obsession his Grandfather had and inflicted on him, and both his parents, from before he was born. It could also explain why Jaehaerys and Aerys were so happy to just get rid of Egg's reforms after he died, Jaehaerys was only ever concerned about his own plans and Egg probably loved him so much that he refused to see that his son was too screwed up to rule. What do the rights of the small folk matter if the world is going to end? They should just be grateful that their Targ saviour deems to rule them.

My prediction for what went wrong at Summerhall is that there was a ritual planned to hatch dragon eggs and it was a nice and safe ritual. Then the night before the ritual was supposed to happen either Jaehaerys or Aerys had a dragon dream which showed Summerhall burning to the ground and a dragon arising out of the ashes. The dreamer takes this literally and sets fire to the palace. I don't think it was a planned thing, I think it was a mixture of obsession with prophecy and madness. If there was Blackfyres involved I think they may have more been involved in encouraging the madness or stopping people from escaping once the fire had started. However, the Targs are quite capable of wiping themselves out without extra help.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Dunk saved Jaehaerys and Rhaella, and then went back for Egg but couldn't save him--maybe because Egg wouldn't let him? Yeah, the ending of the D and E novella is going to be very depressing...

Considering that Martin plans to finish them after he finishes ASOIAF, we won't be long n this world to read them anymore... luckily.

[SeanF]

Yea and there's a theory (preston Jacobs on YouTube can't remember his name on here) that the cache of missing wildfire Jamie was unable to locate, post sacking of KL, ended up in the base of the ToJ, and that some blood sacrifice was about to go down there as well. Explains why the KG would stop Ned from seeing his sister, and explains how Ned and a tiny crannogman alone (reputedly lol) were able to take down the tower. It's looking more and more to me that Rhaegar did steal and rape Lyanna, and that he might have been planning something really fucked up Rhollor style at the Tower.

If Aegon V did try to sacrifice his grandson to hatch dragons, I'd conclude that he had fallen prey to his family's madness. It would be massively out of character for him to do something that evil, and only explicable if he'd lost the ability to distinguish right from wrong.

I'm sure Ser Duncan would have drawn steel to prevent it.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

My sincere opinion, fire magic. They used wildfire and it was a ritual performed by a witch, the Ghost of High Heart.

I guess it can be considered as a dark magic, so maybe it would involve life sacrifice? and maybe it was out of control and killed Aegon V, Duncan the Small, Duncan the Tall, Jenny of Oldstone and probably many others?

We'll discover in the final novella of The Tales of Dunk and Egg, probably.

[Mithras]

I see no reason to believe the fancy tales Varys told about himself without confirmation from independent sources. And people normally lie about themselves.

They bought clams and cockles from her, told her true tales of Braavos and lies about their lives, and laughed at the way she talked when she tried to speak Braavosi.

[Lord Varys]

Pycelle claims that Varys 'was born a slave in Lys'. It is conjecture to assume that Pycelle is just repeating stuff Varys has cooked up/invented.

The idea that infant/young Varys was some sort of super hero who was not actually shaped by the things he suffered in his early lives makes little sense to me in regard to his character.

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

I never suggested that Varys and Illyrio worked together at Summerhal.

A possible scenario of mine is that Varys is the son of Maegor Targaryen and he inherited much of Aerion's hatred along with an exceptional cunning and skill. For me, it is possible that he was present as a member of the family, sabotaged the event and faked his death. Then, he fled to Essos and possibly took part in Wot9PK at the Blackfyre side during which he met with Illyrio. After the defeat, they started to plot together.

Intresting.Also, when will you continue the Brightfyre theory?

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

On Summerhall:

Well, I really abhor this obsession with blood sacrifice. Nothing suggests that Egg intended to sacrifice himself or infant Rhaegar. That makes no sense to me.

Aegon V was not mad, nor did he believe in the prophecy about the promised prince (he was not supportive of Jaehaerys' notion to marry Aerys to Rhaella, after all). All Egg wanted to do was to bring the dragons back because he dreamed about their return, and because he felt they would help him with his reforms. He was not a mad nut case.

Since Betha is not described as being dead, I'd think she was alive to see Summerhall (and died there). I really hate those idea that all the queens die prematurely.

It might not have been his kin but the idea of blood sacrifice is not far fetched especially since one of the sources he searched about dragons was from Asshai and all the people in the main series from Asshai (MMD and Mel) deal in blood sacrifice. And we also have Mel suggesting to Stannis the power of King's blood.

What we don't know is if there was a blood sacrifice, who did he use?

[SeanF]

It might not have been his kin but the idea of blood sacrifice is not far fetched especially since one of the sources he searched about dragons was from Asshai and all the people in the main series from Asshai (MMD and Mel) deal in blood sacrifice. And we also have Mel suggesting to Stannis the power of King's blood.

What we don't know is if there was a blood sacrifice, who did he use?

It's not far-fetched at all, when you consider that his great-granddaughter got the spell to work, by means of human sacrifice.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

It's not far-fetched at all, when you consider that his great-granddaughter got the spell to work, by means of human sacrifice.

Given Jorah's early opposition to Dany burning MMD and the westerosi moral compass against burning people, I wonder if Dunk intervened and that caused the spell to go array as someone suggested earlier.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Back to the OP. What happened? Magic had not returned in the time of Summerhall and that is why the eggs did not hatch. Daenerys had magic on her side. Across the world, spells are easier to replicate, glass candles are burning, etc.

As far as the events go. This is my opinion on what happened.

It is well known that Aegon V became obsessed with dragons. With the kingdom crumbling around him due to the events described in TWoIaF, Aegon decided he MUST try to hatch the dragon eggs. He may have read something to make him believe it would work, he may have dreamed it, believing that he had a green-dream, or someone convinced him he would succeed.

But since this is Egg, or a grown up version of our beloved Egg...he tried to take all precautions while attempting to hatch the eggs. Or Ser Duncan convinced him to take extra precautions....either or.

A part of Dunk's dream in The Sworn Sword helped me come to this theory.

Spoiler

The spade slipped from Dunk’s hands. “Egg,” he cried, “run! We have to run! ” But the sands were giving way beneath their feet. When the boy tried to scramble from the hole, its crumbling sides gave way and collapsed. Dunk saw the sands wash over Egg, burying him as he opened his mouth to shout. He tried to fight his way to him, but the sands were rising all around him, pulling him down into the grave, filling his mouth, his nose, his eyes . . .

Because Wildfire would be involved, this Summerhall ceremony would take place in an area designed similar to the area where Wildfire is made at Kings Landing described in ACoK, Chapter 20 (Tyrion V).

"...Above each work cell is a room filled entirely with sand. A protective spell has been laid on the floors, hmmm, most powerful. Any fire in the cell below causes the floors to fall away, and the sand smothers the blaze at once."

If, at Summerhall, the Wildfire gets out of hand and starts to spread...but the floor above didn't give way fully and sand only trickled into the room below...this would look similar to an hour glass. The fire began to spread...Ser Duncan the Tall is able to get some to safety. He went back for Aegon...who, in the madness of the moment, actually believes it is working and the eggs are hatching OR decides to rescue the eggs OR simply falls into the sand which is draining into the room below...and true to Duncan's honor, Dunk tries to save Egg...and their end is what was described in Dunk's dream in TSS.

[Bael's Bastard]

The idea that Aegon V intended to sacrifice anyone in his family is major crackpot. Not a chance, IMO.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

What we don't know is if there was a blood sacrifice, who did he use?

The wrong people.

If he did, which I doubt, I don't see him sacrificing a Targaryen.

[Mithras]

The idea that Aegon V intended to sacrifice anyone in his family is major crackpot. Not a chance, IMO.

Agreed. I don't know where did that idea come from.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

The idea that Aegon V intended to sacrifice anyone in his family is major crackpot. Not a chance, IMO.

I agree. It really feels to me like people are looking for the most messed up ridiculously horrible thing possible because it would be an "interesting" twist. A lot of other "theories" seem to be cropping up with the same idea in mind (what if Lyanna asked Ned to burn baby Jon as a blood sacrifice??????). Frankly if anything like that is the route Martin intends to go, I wish he'd just let everyone know now so I can find something better to do with my time

[Im no Ser]

Also I think if Egg thought forcing through his reforms with dragons was ever going to be a good long term plan then he was more crazy than Aerys which I haven't seen any sign of yet.

Strong disagree on this. There isn't general popular opposition to Aegon's reforms - the objections come from an elite who's privileges (in the literal sense - the root of privilege is "private law") were being taken away. Those elites rule through force. Dragons drastically change the ability of that elite to violently resist change. There's something of a parallel to Daenerys and her campaign in Slaver's Bay here.

The elopement of Jaehaerys and his sister does not seem like a love match to me. It seems more like either a power grab or something done for the sake of prophesy...there might be something suspicious going on here with Jenny getting Duncan the Small away from the throne and then her friend heavily influencing the person next in line

I like this line of thinking. There's nothing to suggest they weren't in love...but that doesn't mean that 3rd parties didn't take advantage of those feelings and facilitate the elopement. In fact, it's almost certain that someone helped them get away from their respective escorts, find a septon and find a secure place to have the wedding and the consummation (the latter of which is what keeps Egg from annulling it).

And I agree it is really weird that the Ghost of High Heart shows up with Jenny, gets Prince Duncan to abdicate, and then starts manipulating Jaeherys with respect to his betrothal. She does seem legitimately upset with how Summerhall played out though; if there was a faction made up of Pycelle/the Citadel/Aerys/etc behind the disaster I suspect they were working counter to GHH's interests.