[TWOIAF Spoilers] The Stormblood - Hunting down the historical Baratheons

[TheCrannogDweller]

After reading TWOIAF and checking the three family trees (which, maybe unsurprisingly, left me with more questions than they gave me answers) I decided to try and get a clearer idea of the Baratheon lineage from the Conquest to Robert's Rebellion. The information below is mainly from the TWOAIF section on the House and a few tidbits from D&E and the main story.

1st Generation

Lord Orys Baratheon - married Argella Durrandon. Died in the early reign of King Aenys (37-42). Had at least one son - Davos.

2nd Generation

Davos Baratheon - may or may not be the Lord of Storm's end.

Raymont Baratheon - the younger son of a Lord of Storm's end, served in the Kingsguard in the end of Aenys's reign. Saved king Aenys's life during an attempted assassination from Poor Fellows. Most likely the son of Orys, but may also be the son of his heir and brother to Robar.

3rd Generation

Lord Robar Baratheon - the grandson of Orys, Robar married Aenys' widow Alyssa Velaryon and had at least 2 kids with her - Boremund and Jocelyn.

4th Generation

Lord Boremund Baratheon - son of Robar, brother of Jocelyn. Took part in the Great Council of 101, where he supported Rhaenys's claim.

Jocelyn Baratheon - married to Jaehaerys I's heir (Aemon), mother to Rhaenys (The Queen Who Never Was)

5th Generation

Lord Borros Baratheon - Lord of Storm's end - had 4 daughters. Died in 131, killed in the last battle of the Dance of the Dragons.

Rhaenys Targaryen - married Corlys Velaryon and had 2 children with him - Laenor and Laena.

6th Generation

Main line - unknown

Laena Velaryon - married Daemon Targaryen and had twin daughters - Rhaena and Baela

Laenor Velaryon - married Rhaenyra Targaryen and had 3 sons with her - Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey

7th Generation

Main line - unknown

Rhaena Targaryen - married a Corbray and a Hightower - had six daughters from the latter.

Baela Targaryen - married Alyn Velaryon. Presumably all current Velaryons are descended from her.

The big white spot - from 131 to 209

Unnamed Baratheon Lady married a Lannister around 178 and had three daughters and a son with him. Since there is no mention of black-haired Lannisters in the books, this branch might've died off (or the Baratheon genes might've been defeated in later generations).

Gowen Baratheon - the third son of Lord Baratheon - married Tya Lannister and had 1 son with her around 194. The kid died in infancy.

Unnamed Lord Baratheon - threw a tourney for his grandson's birth (around 208)

Lyonel Baratheon - the Laughing Storm. Still Ser during the events in THK (transpiring in 209).

Became Lord later in life. Had at least two children - a daughter and a son.

Lord Ormund Baratheon - the son of Lyonel, married Rhaelle Targaryen. Died during the Ninepenny Kings war, at the Stepstones.

Lord Steffon Baratheon - son of Ormund and Rhaelle, married to Cassana Estermont. Born in 246. Died in a shipwreck in 278, along with his wife. Father of Robert, Stannis and Renly and grandfather of Shireen Baratheon.

That's what I have at the moment. If anyone can fill in the white spots, I would be grateful - and I will update this OP with any new information I find on my reread of TWOIAF.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

While not a Baratheon Cassana Estermont is the wife of Steffon, and probably worth mentioning.

And is it Gawen and Tia or Gowen and Tya? I think the latter.

After the Rebellion:

Then you have Cersei Lannister and her "Baratheon" children and then Selyse Florent and her daughter Shireen and Margaery Tyrell for Renly.

I find it funny that the middle brother married a Florent but the younger brother married a Tyrell since Tyrell>Florent.

Probably another kick in the stomach to the Florents.

[Fat Mac]

I was kinda peeved we didn't get a more complete history of the Baratheons.

Can we assume Gowen is an uncle to Lyonel? They said the last Baratheon/Lannister marriage was 90 years before Robert and Cersei's marriage, making it ~194 AC. That probably makes him too old to be of Lyonel's generation.

[MaesterMan]

I would have liked Baratheon and Velaryon family trees included in TWOIAF.

One interesting note about these very early Baratheons, if you think about the math:

Assuming Davos Baratheon was the son of Lord Orys by Argella Durrandon (and not by some earlier unnamed Orys marriage back on Dragonstone), then Davos was born circa 1-2 AC. Let's say Davos had son Robar when Davos was circa 16 years of age--that would make Robar born circa 17/18 AC, and so a good ten-twelve years younger than his later wife, widowed Queen Alyssa Velaryon Targaryen, born like her 1st husband Aenys I in about 7AC.

Per The Crannog Dweller:

"Unnamed Lord Baratheon - threw a tourney for his grandson's birth (around 208)

Gawen Baratheon - the third son of Lord Baratheon - married Tia Lannister and had 1 son with her around 208. The kid died in infancy.

Lyonel Baratheon - the Laughing Storm. Still Ser during the events in THK (transpiring in 209), he was probably the brother of Gawen. Became Lord later in life. Had at least two children - a daughter and a son.

Lord Ormund Baratheon - the son of Lyonel, married Rhaelle Targaryen. Died during the Ninepenny Kings war, at the Stepstones.

Lord Steffon Baratheon - son of Ormund and Rhaelle. Contemporary of Tywin Lannisters and Aerys Targaryen - so probably born around 240. Died in a shipwreck in 278, along with his wife. Father of Robert, Stannis and Renly and grandfather of Shireen Baratheon."

Per TWOIAF, Rhaelle married Ormund Baratheon in 245 (n.b., when she was about 15) and had Steffon Baratheon the following year 246 (Steffon was stated in the Aerys II chapter to have been slightly younger than either Aerys or Tywin). I agree w/Ramsey's Penguins--I think I recall it as Gowen Baratheon and Tya Lannister. Doing the math, I think that I agree with Mr. Bell that Gowen was probably a younger brother of Lyonel Baratheon's father, not of the Laughing Storm himself; if Gowen did indeed marry circa 194 AC, he was presumably at least 15 or so, and in 194, Lyonel Baratheon, clearly an elder son to be able to succeed to Storm's End, may only have been six to eight years old (assuming he was about 20 in 208). So, Gowen's being a younger brother of Lyonel's father probably fits the scraps of data a bit better.

[TheCrannogDweller]

Can we assume Gowen is an uncle to Lyonel? They said the last Baratheon/Lannister marriage was 90 years before Robert and Cersei's marriage, making it ~194 AC. That probably makes him too old to be of Lyonel's generation.

Doing the math, I think that I agree with Mr. Bell that Gowen was probably a younger brother of Lyonel Baratheon's father, not of the Laughing Storm himself; if Gowen did indeed marry circa 194 AC, he was presumably at least 15 or so, and in 194, Lyonel Baratheon, clearly an elder son to be able to succeed to Storm's End, may only have been six to eight years old (assuming he was about 20 in 208). So, Gowen's being a younger brother of Lyonel's father probably fits the scraps of data a bit better.

Fixed.

I thought the marriage was supposed to be 90 years prior to Ned reading the book, not 90 years before Robert and Cersei's nuptials - hence the mistake. With that in mind I think it's safe to assume that Gowen is Lyonel's uncle - either that or Lyonel was a fourth son, born long after his first three brothers.

And is it Gawen and Tia or Gowen and Tya? I think the latter.

I agree w/Ramsey's Penguins--I think I recall it as Gowen Baratheon and Tya Lannister.

Fixed.

Per TWOIAF, Rhaelle married Ormund Baratheon in 245 (n.b., when she was about 15) and had Steffon Baratheon the following year 246 (Steffon was stated in the Aerys II chapter to have been slightly younger than either Aerys or Tywin).

Somehow I failed to see that there was a precise year stated for Steffon's birth.

Fixed.

While not a Baratheon Cassana Estermont is the wife of Steffon, and probably worth mentioning.

Added.

After the Rebellion:

Then you have Cersei Lannister and her "Baratheon" children and then Selyse Florent and her daughter Shireen and Margaery Tyrell for Renly.

As you can see, I haven't made a separate entry for Robert, Stannis and Renly - so I didn't add their wives on purpose.

I find it funny that the middle brother married a Florent but the younger brother married a Tyrell since Tyrell>Florent.

Probably another kick in the stomach to the Florents.

I think it was the other way around - that marrying Stannis to a Florent was meant as a veiled threat against the Tyrells.

[Fat Mac]

Fixed.

I thought the marriage was supposed to be 90 years prior to Ned reading the book, not 90 years before Robert and Cersei's nuptials - hence the mistake. With that in mind I think it's safe to assume that Gowen is Lyonel's uncle - either that or Lyonel was a fourth son, born long after his first three brothers.

The wiki says its 90 years before Robert/Cersei marriage, but it's not canon, so I cant say for sure.. If its 90 years before GoT, that places it around 208. Do we have any indication of how old Lyonel was around that time?

[Maia]

Don't forget Ser Harbert, the great-uncle of Robert and Co. I don't remember if it is directly stated that he was a Baratheon, but we have a pretty extensive listing of Estermonts and he is not among them.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Don't forget Ser Harbert, the great-uncle of Robert and Co. I don't remember if it is directly stated that he was a Baratheon, but we have a pretty extensive listing of Estermonts and he is not among them.

I was thinking about him, great uncle is grandfathers brother right? So Ormunds brother?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I think it was the other way around - that marrying Stannis to a Florent was meant as a veiled threat against the Tyrells.

Yeah I definitely think it was a veiled stay in line to the Tyrells, but the Tyrells got their marriage anyway. Bound to make the Florents happy.

[Hardstone]

Harbert isn't confirmed as a Baratheon or an Estermont. But he would be Ormund's brother is it is the former.

Lyonel had more than one daughter as the one betrothed to Duncan2 is said to be the eldest.

[El-Daddy]

This seems pretty comprehensive, I'm unaware of any others who have been mentioned.

Olyver Baratheon was the son of Borros in the MUSH (died of a fever at 14), and while it isn't canon, he is noted as being a character who did canonically exist, even if under a different name. So Borros had a son who died, but we don't know if he was called Olyver. Himself and his sisters (who are named) are the only Baratheons in the MUSH that are canon-ish.

[The Once and Future King]

In game of thrones (book, 2hich sadly is not obvious) several names are given for Baratheons who are "black of hair"

[Lord Annaly]

I find it funny that the middle brother married a Florent but the younger brother married a Tyrell since Tyrell>Florent.

Probably another kick in the stomach to the Florents.

By the time those marriages occurred Selyse Florent did not marry lowly a second son but a full lord in his own right and brother to the king, being at the time second in line.

Selyse was probably the most suitable available bride at the time, possibly no higher ranking daughter in the Tyrells or elsewhere.

When Renly married Margaery, it was a much different scenario, he was much more than a third son, he was a lord paramount and a self-proclaimed king.

If they had occurred before the rebellion then yes, Renly bagging a Tyrell would be a bigger deal than Stannis ending up with a Florent.

I think the bigger kick in the teeth for the Florents came later when they lost everything because of Stannis....:)

[Ramsay's Penguins]

By the time those marriages occurred Selyse Florent did not marry lowly a second son but a full lord in his own right and brother to the king, being at the time second in line.

Selyse was probably the most suitable available bride at the time, possibly no higher ranking daughter in the Tyrells or elsewhere.

When Renly married Margaery, it was a much different scenario, he was much more than a third son, he was a lord paramount and a self-proclaimed king.

If they had occurred before the rebellion then yes, Renly bagging a Tyrell would be a bigger deal than Stannis ending up with a Florent.

I think the bigger kick in the teeth for the Florents came later when they lost everything because of Stannis.... :)

The Florents are as much to blame for their loss, they should have abandoned Stannis long ago, and would have done, if not for their devotion to R'hllor.

Yeah I figured it but I can just imagine Axel or Selyse being like "we marry the elder but the YOUNGER GETS A TYRELL SMFH"

[Lord Annaly]

Yeah I figured it but I can just imagine Axel or Selyse being like "we marry the elder but the YOUNGER GETS A TYRELL SMFH"

I would say that it was not a case of "the younger gets a Tyrell" but more like " Tyrells got a lord paramount!"

It was less about who got the elder or younger but who got a lord and who got a great lord.

The catch here was Margaery getting Renly, rather than Renly getting Margaery.

A small but important differentiation .

:cool4:

[Magnolia]

Is it stated somewhere, that Ormund is Lyonels son? I only found "heir". Couldn't he also be a nephew, if Lyonel only had daughters?

And, though it doesn't help much, we know that Robar succeeded his father as Lord of Storms End. And not for example his uncle, his grandfather or his brother.

[John Doe]

Because of the Tyrells, not because of Stannis. Stannis is probaby their ony chance to get Brightwater Keep back.

[Lord Annaly]

Because of the Tyrells, not because of Stannis. Stannis is probaby their ony chance to get Brightwater Keep back.

If the Florents had not swung to Stannis they would not have lost their title and holdings.

If they had stayed with their liege lord then they would not have lost everything and ended up freezing their landless butts off in the north.

Stannis is not their best attempt to be restored but the reason they lost it in the first place.

Ultimately they themselves are responsible for being attainted.

They made the wrong choice

[Maia]

If the Florents had not swung to Stannis they would not have lost their title and holdings.

It is not yet over for them, IIRC. They still hold the castle and Lord Alester's son is a guest of Lord Hightower. With everything else going on, Tyrells might well decide to relent and forgive the Florents, since the danger of Ironborn et al. is far more imminent.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

It is not yet over for them, IIRC. They still hold the castle and Lord Alester's son is a guest of Lord Hightower. With everything else going on, Tyrells might well decide to relent and forgive the Florents, since the danger of Ironborn et al. is far more imminent.

The Florents are far from over. The Tyrells are known for marrying influential families, but the Florents do it jstu as well.

Brightwater still belongs to them, held by Ser Colin.

The heir is in Horn Hill, and is wife to the Randyll Tarly we all know and love.

And yeah, the Hightowers are family to.