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Maggie the frog


yankee211

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I had a thought, when Maggy the frog mentioned to Cersie a more beautiful queen will take everything from her. A lot of people think its Margery, Danny or even Sansa. But I think we are we forgetting Arraine Martell, because she is described as very beautiful and she is a princess. Also, if things goes well for her and finds out young griff is not a fake. Dorne could overthrown KL. Tell me what you think please.


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I think that at some point, some fan has considered every single female in the series as a candiate for being the "younger, more beatuiful queen". Especially those younger than Cersei. So all in all, I think Arianne figures quite high up on people's lists.



Myself, I have a sneaking suspicion that Maggy's prophecy will turn out to be false, incomplete or otherwise misunderstood. As Martin has pointed out several times over the course of the series, prophecies tend to bite you in the most unexpected fashion, and you're most vulnerable when you think you have figured them out. Cersei spends a lot of time dwelling on Maggy's prophecy in AFfC, to the point of being obsessed with young, beautiful women and strangling little brothers. As such, a literal interpretation of the prophecy would be most unlikely, since Martin has a thing for red herrings, and he's waved the "it's meant to be taken at face value!" herring in front of our faces a lot, with Cersei's near-endless brooding on who the queen is or where Tyrion is hiding.


Notably, this makes her extremely vulnerable, since she thinks she knows the manner of her death. Young, beautiful queen, things taken away from her, strangulation by little brother. Thus, everything that does not involve either isn't considered as a threat. She keeps a sharp lookout for attractive females and a certain sibling, but believes herself invulnerable to everything else.



For all we know, Cersei can die falling down the stairs in a drunken stupor, her last thoughts being "Hey! This isn't how it's supposed to end!" before her head hits the stone wall below.


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I actually did forget about Arianne Martell, so kudos for reminding me. I am sure KL can overcome Dorne btw because KL never been breach (though Stannis always did so). Doran even said that Dorne cannot beat the Iron Throne by itself; therefore, he basically confessed that he would need allies in order to succeed a breaching.



Even if Young Griff is faking, Dorne will still supports him if he has enough allies. Doran is not silly enough to miss an opportunity to crown his daughter as Queen of Westeros. Also, prophecies in ASOIF have always been somewhat of an enigma. For example, Melisandre’s prophecies always come true, but she sometimes misunderstands them.



I do believe Cersei will die by being choke, but Jaime will be responsible for her death. GRRM never gives us what we crave (for Tyrion to strangle her), and I applaud him for not doing so. Making Tyrion kills her is just too spoonfeedish, and would be less dramatic than her lover, brother, and father of her children to kill her. And I truly believe that Cersei really wanted Sansa to marry Joffrey, but we all know how the first book/season played out. She seemed to be in her right mind, until the death of Shae and Tywin ignited her fears of Maggy’s words…

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I agree with you on that, if not Arianne, someone has to succeed to be queen.(some believe GRRM will have KL destroy). A lot of people really think Jaime will kill his sister, but know GRRM, it is just too oblivious for him to have Jaime do it. I believe it will be someone that most of us did not expect. All these predictions is driving a lot of people crazy until the new book finally comes out.



The show is doing there own thing, so what ever happens on the show, I will not pay it no mind because the books are so compelling.


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I'm on my second read and not up to AFFC yet, but from memory, I think the "younger more beautiful queen" part has already happened. I personally don't see Cersei getting her power back. I know others disagree but I think her efforts will be desperate and chaotic, which is where the "burn down KL" plot will come in. She won't get her power back which to me means that part of the prophecy has been filled in the form of Margery so it's left to Jaime to finish it off by killing her.

Although something tells me that Varys will make that look like Tyrion did it. But I might be drawing a long bow there

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I'm on my second read and not up to AFFC yet, but from memory, I think the "younger more beautiful queen" part has already happened. I personally don't see Cersei getting her power back. I know others disagree but I think her efforts will be desperate and chaotic, which is where the "burn down KL" plot will come in. She won't get her power back which to me means that part of the prophecy has been filled in the form of Margery so it's left to Jaime to finish it off by killing her.

Although something tells me that Varys will make that look like Tyrion did it. But I might be drawing a long bow there

I actually agree with you, Varys already killed Keavan and the Grand Measter and I think he is going to out the blame on Tyrion. Which is going to make Cersie extremely paranoid.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My best guess on the "volanqar" is that it's actually Jaime, not Tyrion. After all, Jaime is the younger twin, and he's become pretty tired of Cersei's nonsense. He didn't even reply to her desperate message, whereas the "old" Jaime would have burst into the Sept of Baelor like gangbusters.


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Could also be Myrcella. Particularly with what's going on in Dorne. I tend to believe these end up being self-fulfilling prophecies. The desire to make them true or not tends to lead them down the road they were trying to avoid.

I agree completely about the self-fulfilling nature of the prophecies. It goes into what Jojen says about green dreams and how they're always true (even if they don't happen exactly as he dreams them). It's all very Oedipus Rex.

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Well, I take it large, on who will strangle Cersei.

Tyrion wants to chastize Jaime for his role in Tysha's affair.
A geometrical punishment for Jaime would be through Cersei, on which Tyrion has scores to settle too.
I kind of hope for that, or Tyrion, being the favourite charactr of Martin's will end up killing Jaime, which is not my preferred way of seeing Jaime go, in the end.

This is to say: if that part of the profecy is plaied straight, it is quite possible that the other one hides some surprise. Arianne shouldn't be out of the radar on that.

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Well, I take it large, on who will strangle Cersei.

Tyrion wants to chastize Jaime for his role in Tysha's affair.

A geometrical punishment for Jaime would be through Cersei, on which Tyrion has scores to settle too.

I kind of hope for that, or Tyrion, being the favourite charactr of Martin's will end up killing Jaime, which is not my preferred way of seeing Jaime go, in the end.

This is to say: if that part of the profecy is plaied straight, it is quite possible that the other one hides some surprise. Arianne shouldn't be out of the radar on that.

That's what I thought, a lot of people does not think of Arianne as the next Queen and we don't know what will happen with Margeary's trail. But we could be wrong and GRRM will have something in store that will surprise us.

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It doesn't have to be a queen. The Frog said: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear. So by my read Cersei may be queen until someone else who is younger and more beautiful than her causes her downfall. I think it is Sansa as she is the only one who has been compared as exceeding Cersei (when she was being fitted for her wedding dress the maids tell her that her breasts will surpass even the queens). Danny has been described as the most beautiful woman in the world but in reality Cersei is a negligible issue to her so why would she bother? Also, since Jaime is Kingsguard even assuming he survives Cersei's downfall Tyrion inherits Casterly Rock. As Tyrion is in exile Sansa will rule as the Lady of the Rock. I think the "all that you hold dear" refers Casterly Rock as her children will presumably be dead already.


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It doesn't have to be a queen. The Frog said: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear. So by my read Cersei may be queen until someone else who is younger and more beautiful than her causes her downfall. I think it is Sansa as she is the only one who has been compared as exceeding Cersei (when she was being fitted for her wedding dress the maids tell her that her breasts will surpass even the queens). Danny has been described as the most beautiful woman in the world but in reality Cersei is a negligible issue to her so why would she bother? Also, since Jaime is Kingsguard even assuming he survives Cersei's downfall Tyrion inherits Casterly Rock. As Tyrion is in exile Sansa will rule as the Lady of the Rock. I think the "all that you hold dear" refers Casterly Rock as her children will presumably be dead already.

Yes, because technically Tyrion and Sansa are still married and I don't think Littlefingers plan to marry off Sansa to Harry will work. But we will see in the next two books if Tyrion lives long enough to get back to westeros.

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Daenerys



it is known



lol kidding aside, I've felt it was Daenerys since the first time I read it. Margaery is far too obvious.



So obvious in fact that Cersei obsesses over it, as we know from her POV.



Funny, because she muses how Margaery, although younger and pretty, really isn't more beautiful and for once she is right (this is when Cersei also muses that even peasant girls can be pretty in their way for a brief time in their youth).



And all the while she practically pushes Qyburn away when he attempts to inform her of dragons and wars in the east (just before her fateful dinner with the Falyse Stokeworth).


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  • 2 weeks later...

Did anyone put togethor that maggi the frog could be Jeyne westerling grandmother who was a magi from across the sea and in a tyrions chapter kevin says people from lanniport went to for profecy and healing..

Even Jaime did, if I recall correctly. Either way, it is in the books.

So yeah, it is very common knowledge on this forum.

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It doesn't have to be a queen. The Frog said: Aye. Queen you shall be... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear. So by my read Cersei may be queen until someone else who is younger and more beautiful than her causes her downfall. I think it is Sansa as she is the only one who has been compared as exceeding Cersei (when she was being fitted for her wedding dress the maids tell her that her breasts will surpass even the queens). Danny has been described as the most beautiful woman in the world but in reality Cersei is a negligible issue to her so why would she bother? Also, since Jaime is Kingsguard even assuming he survives Cersei's downfall Tyrion inherits Casterly Rock. As Tyrion is in exile Sansa will rule as the Lady of the Rock. I think the "all that you hold dear" refers Casterly Rock as her children will presumably be dead already.

To some, even pre-boiling oil Loras might have counted as younger and more beautiful, so perhaps it doesn't even have to be a female.

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