Martell and Stark

[LordImp]

How do you think Martells and Stark's would go together? They are very different people . Stark's are of the far North , Martells of far South , Stark's first men and Martells a mix of Andal/ Rhoyne. But they both hate the Lannisters , Lannisters caused damage to both of them.

Do the Martells have hatred for the Stark's? The Stark's did support the man indirectly responsible for the murder of Elia.

But what about R+L= J? If Jon is the son of Rhaegar , will the Martells support him or will they fight against him because he is not Elias son? Can it be that the Stark's and Martells forms an alliance to kill the Lannisters?

[Leonardo]

I think Ned coming to Dorne and all that kind of shows that both of those houses were totally screwed by the war and got nothing out of it. Ned lost almost his entire family, the Martells lost their sister, niece and nephew. Neither got any land or honorable positions(not that they cared)

Ned really should have been planning a marriage for Robb honestly. He was at that age and it would have saved everyone a deal of trouble if Robbie had been betrothed to Margaery or Arianne. Then Walder wouldn't have been able to demand it as a price and been more inclined due to the alliance.

Tbh the Frey marriage wasn't a bad one at all either though, and next to the above two candidates, the only other ones as good would be a powerful secondary house like the royce's or Baratheon of Dragonstone.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^Asha would have been a great candidate as well. Also there were several good northern choices such as Mormont and Karstark.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Who says that Ned hadn't been thinking about Robb's marriage? He could have been, every now and then. It just seized to be a priority when Jon Arryn had died.

It wouldn't have mattered if Ned had asked for Arrianne's hand for Robb, as Doran would have said "no".. He still had his plot, remember ;)

Martell and Stark both hate Lannister, but it isn't the same. Ned hates the Lannisters for the things they have done in general, Doran/Oberyn hate the Lannisters for what has been done to their family specifically.

As long as the Martells are convinced that Aegon is legit, they will support him. If it will come down to either Dany or Jon, they would probably go with the person who stands the biggest chance of winning.. Which would currently be Dany, if she can get her entire army across the sea :)

[The Wolves]

The Martells and Starks would have got alone just fine.

The Martells hold no grudge against the Starks and Oberyn was very polite to Sansa also all their hatred is directed to the one who gave the orders for the deaths.

Anyways it would have been awesome to see the North and Dorne rally together being that their families have a son with the crown prince(if R+L=J)

[Leonardo]

^Asha would have been a great candidate as well. Also there were several good northern choices such as Mormont and Karstark.

Those are already his banner men, the idea is to build alliances and he already holds Theon and with him the isles.

Agreed Doran probably wouldn't accept, but the Tyrells would be a good possibility. Ned would have been hand which would be more lucrative to mace than the kings brother imo

[glamourweaver]

On Robb's marriage - I assume that if Jon Arryn hadn't died and everything hit the fan, in a year or so Catelyn would have taken Robb and Sansa on a tour through the southern kingdoms - the intention being that they would both come back betrothed.

[glamourweaver]

Arya's actually the one who (if everything hadn't gone to hell and a parallel universe where a comedy of manners occurred instead) Eddard & Catelyn would have been wise to look to Dorne for. They'd have been uncomfortable with many of the social traditions of course (like the notion that Arya's husband might openly have other paramours), but in terms of acceptance of who Arya is, it'd be one of the best options (assuming there wasn't a male Mormont heir).

[glamourweaver]

Anyways it would have been awesome to see the North and Dorne rally together being that their families have a son with the crown prince(if R+L=J)

Well it's not like there's any particular Dornish blood in there (other than Rhaegar's great-great-great-grandmother), but unlike many other people's they wouldn't be outraged over the adulterous betrayal, since they'd see Lyana as a paramour and not a besmirching of Elia's honor.

[The Wolves]

Well it's not like there's any particular Dornish blood in there (other than Rhaegar's great-great-great-grandmother), but unlike many other people's they wouldn't be outraged over the adulterous betrayal, since they'd see Lyana as a paramour and not a besmirching of Elia's honor.

True I'm just saying in a better world one where Aegon would have been King and Jon acknowledged as his brother and very loyal to him if he ever needed help Jon could have rallied the North behind him.

[David C. Hunter]

I think there is a little foreshadowing and basic praticality to future alliances between House Martell and House Stark, or rather the North and Dorne.

[The hairy bear]

I think that the main reason there were a lot of un-engaged teenegers at the start of the war of the five kings was because everyone was waiting for the royal family to make the first move. Among the potential candidates to marry Joffrey one could find Sansa Stark, Margaery Tyrell, Ysilla Royce, Bethany Blackwood, the Bracken girls, and erhaps even Shireen was considered. And the same for Myrcella and Tommen.

As I see it, everyone was waiting for Robert to make the first move.

[naseridrl]

Heirs marrying heirs can only end in messy problems and too many big power blocks that make people jealous. Even if Doran didn't have his plot Robb marrying Arianne would have been a logistical mess. Arianne is heir she can't rule Dorne from the North and Robb can't rule the North from Dorne. Why would she give up her claim to be take a lesser position as wife of a ruler instead of ruler in her own right?

I always thought Quentyn and Sansa would have been a good match. He actually wants to be the kind of guy she dreamed of, plus he's age appropriate.

ETA: Even Arya and Trystane would be good. Again age appropriate and I think Arya would relish being in Dorne with the third inline. She's unlikely to have any real huge lady of the house pressure and she can have more freedom from both that and living in a freer society like Dorne.

[glamourweaver]

Edit: I previously on this post suggested that without Doran's plot, Quentin and Sansa might have made a match he would seek in the everything-doesn't-go-to-hell timeline, but I realized that no - he'd want an heiress for his younger child.

In any event, a Northern alliance isn't something Doran would have considered BEFORE the events of AGoT - but it is something plausible now. Beforehand, even though he didn't necessarily hold a grudge against Ned, he'd have known that the Targaryen return he was conspiring was something Robert's best friend would fight against. Now obviously new possibilities arise.

Maybe Lord Rickon of Winterfell will end up married to one of the younger Sand-Snakes (I don't think Bran and Arya are going to be in marrying or inheriting states, even if alive, by series end; and Sansa's destiny is several degrees higher politically).

[Fae Boleyn]

Those are already his banner men, the idea is to build alliances and he already holds Theon and with him the isles.

Agreed Doran probably wouldn't accept, but the Tyrells would be a good possibility. Ned would have been hand which would be more lucrative to mace than the kings brother imo

Actually, considering the tidbit that some in the North blamed Rickard's southern moves for what happened to him, Brandon, and Lyanna, not to mention the Stark family tree indicating that they did tend to marry with their bannermen (the Lannister tree shows some of this too), Ned should have married some of his kids in the North. Especially Robb, half southron, looking a Tully, yet the future Lord Stark.

But that's not saying all of the Stark kids had to wed in the North. Arya and Sansa are the best to send south, and I'd say Arya/Trystane is the best Stark/Martell match. I suppose one could toss in Jon/one of the Sand Snakes, but I'm not sure how much bastards would count. Arya would do well in a freer area, while Sansa is best suited to either court or somewhere like the Reach.

Robb/Arianne would never be a good idea because they're both heirs. Arianne wanting to wed an heir later on makes sense - remember, she thinks Quentyn will be trying to usurp her, a powerful husband might help her stop him. But if Doran and Ned are arranging it, no.

[Leonardo]

Actually, considering the tidbit that some in the North blamed Rickard's southern moves for what happened to him, Brandon, and Lyanna, not to mention the Stark family tree indicating that they did tend to marry with their bannermen (the Lannister tree shows some of this too), Ned should have married some of his kids in the North. Especially Robb, half southron, looking a Tully, yet the future Lord Stark.

But that's not saying all of the Stark kids had to wed in the North. Arya and Sansa are the best to send south, and I'd say Arya/Trystane is the best Stark/Martell match. I suppose one could toss in Jon/one of the Sand Snakes, but I'm not sure how much bastards would count. Arya would do well in a freer area, while Sansa is best suited to either court or somewhere like the Reach.

Robb/Arianne would never be a good idea because they're both heirs. Arianne wanting to wed an heir later on makes sense - remember, she thinks Quentyn will be trying to usurp her, a powerful husband might help her stop him. But if Doran and Ned are arranging it, no.

Ned would certainly be happiest marrying them to people he thought they would be content with; he was never a great politician or statesman. Marrying bannermen is safe as well as shoring up alliances at home, but the north already had the utmost respect for The Ned. I'd think holding out hope for Edmure having a daughter would be best for Rickon. Shireen would also be a good political move

Margaery was definitely the plum in the pudding though; her and Robb would have been a very savvy move politically and also would have made Robb very happy in all likelihood.

I think bastards would count a fair bit for a dornish marriage if Oberyn is still alive, and he was likely to be the one truly ruling Dorne when Doran died. Even if not he'd still have a lot of responsibilities in the early years.

[Minsc]

Agreed Doran probably wouldn't accept, but the Tyrells would be a good possibility. Ned would have been hand which would be more lucrative to mace than the kings brother imo

Mace wants her to be queen, thus he likely wouldn't go for Robb until all efforts to snag a king is finished.

[Leonardo]

Mace wants her to be queen, thus he likely wouldn't go for Robb until all efforts to snag a king is finished.

Mace wouldn't have his sights set so high considering Robert was alive and married at the time

Making Marg queen was Renly's idea and Loras's. Mace doesn't have an original thought in his head that someone else hasn't thought first. He couldn't have asked for a better match than Robb at the time with Ned or Jon Arryn as hand, since Ned was obviously Robert's logical choice for the next hand.

[Minsc]

Mace wouldn't have his sights set so high considering Robert was alive and married at the time

Making Marg queen was Renly's idea and Loras's. Mace doesn't have an original thought in his head that someone else hasn't thought first. He couldn't have asked for a better match than Robb at the time with Ned or Jon Arryn as hand, since Ned was obviously Robert's logical choice for the next hand.

Robert does have a son.

[glamourweaver]

Mace wouldn't have his sights set so high considering Robert was alive and married at the time

Making Marg queen was Renly's idea and Loras's. Mace doesn't have an original thought in his head that someone else hasn't thought first. He couldn't have asked for a better match than Robb at the time with Ned or Jon Arryn as hand, since Ned was obviously Robert's logical choice for the next hand.

Still this hits the point that was made earlier that there were so many unengaged teenagers when the series started because a lot of lords had been waiting/hoping to get Joffrey, Myrcella, or Tommen's hands for their kids. Mace may not have been involved in Renly and Loras's plot to get Robert to set aside Cersei for Margaery - but he'd definitely have been hoping Joffrey & the crown were a possibility, that's too self evident a possibility for him to ignore.