Shadow Cat 75 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 A few things have always bugged me about Valyrian Steel. How come we always see Valyrian steel as swords? If the steel is lighter and stronger than normal steel wouldn’t the Valyrians at the height of their empire have say Valyrian spear tips, whole sets of armored or better yet shields? I was hoping that the World of Ice and Fire would share some legend about a Valyrian hero who wore a suit of Valyrian steel but nothing came up. When a Maester’s forges a chain in the Higher Mysteries (magic) in Valyrian Steel, now Valyrian steel is very rare and costly so where does the Citadel get the Steel? I know having a valyrian chain line is rare but even if a few got it every year they would run out of it if they had a limited supply. Could the Citidal know how to make Valyrian steel but is keeping it to themselves because it involves magic and those weapons would be too dangerous on the battlefield in high numbers? Also if Valyrian Steel is Dragon Steel made with actual fire dragons could the armor and weapons of the others be made the same way only using Ice Dragons? It would explain why their swords are strong enough to cut through steel and yet are cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Can't answer all of that but I can answer some. Multiple smiths can rework vs, Oldtown has at least 1. So while the Maesters can't make VS they can rework it from whatever source they have/can find. Marwyn has a VS mask and a VS rod of unknown size, I had took it as a walking stick/staff but it might be less. As for the armor, that's been brought up before. There very well could be VS armor in Valyria/ there could have been, but we have not been told this for sure. Some people argue it wouldn't be worth it and I have generally disagreed until a thought that just occurred to me. When the Valyrian dragonlords fought they likely fought on dragonback, and dragonflame would have roasted them regardless of what type of metal they are wearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blue Knight Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 In the series we see a few non-sword pieces of Valyrian steel. House Celtigar has a VS axe and I remember we see a VS arakh in A Dance with Dagons. A previous poster also mentioned how there are ways VS can be reworked, so any weapons used in Valyria (such as spears) would have probably been melted down and reforged into other more common weapons by now(from what we see swords of one type or another are favored in both Westeros and Essos). The Citadel knowing how to actually make VS is a possibility. However, I think that due to many traders and travelers from around the world coming to Oldtown, the Citadel probably has a fairly large source of VS from dealing with these merchants. I think the swords of the Others are just enhanced in some way by their own magic, and cold for the same reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted November 20, 2014 Share Posted November 20, 2014 Maybe in case of an armor, the advantages don't justify the cost. Hell, maybe there were Valyrian steel armors, but none made it to Westeros. As for maesters' links, maybe the Citadel possesses a small supply of the material. Maybe they have an old VS dagger or two, and chop off small pieces of it every time a maester earns his magic link. I imagine you could forge quite a few of them out of one knife, and the demand isn't big in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skull of the Greatjon Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I suspect, and have separately proposed, that VS is forged in burning dragonglass, which would be more workable than using dragons. Maybe VS armor was less common because it needs to be customized for the wearer, whereas swords, axes, etc. can be passed down from person to person or easily sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiko Dragonhorn Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Swords are much better heirlooms/symbolic pieces than partial or full sets of armor. Doesn't Luwin say only 1 in 100 maesters gets a VS link? I'd say that's no more than 1 tiny link every few years (or 10-20 years even). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Actually, the Valyrians are known for their blood magic, as is anything valyrian-made is known as "spellforged." Typically one would assume it takes Valyrian blood, with the correct valyrian incantations while forging, to properly spellforge a blade. Think blood magic cast while smithing, perhaps even mixing blood IN with the melted metal before cooling it, causing those shimmering crimson ripples. Fire, and blood. Dragonsteel. Tobho Mott knew how to do it from Qohor (valyrian city). Incidently, Marwyn the Mage of the CItadel, wields a valyrian steel staff, a valyrian steel mask, and a valyrian steel ring, and he's the one who taught Mirri Maaz Duur her blood magic. He's also more than likely the sorceror who snipped Varys which is where Varys' hatred of magic stems from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 How about Valyrian Steel was just really, really hard to produce and really, really expensive, even when Valyria was a going concern? There wouldn't be a lot of it to begin with if that was the case, and of that most wouldn't have survived the Doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I always figured one of the key features of VS being it's exceptionally sharp that using it for armor would just be incredibly inefficient and wasteful and speartips wouldn't be practical since breaking a spear shaft happens quite commonly with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrus Martell Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Caggo Corpsekiller's bad-ass valyrian steel arakh puts all the swords to shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 valyrian arrowheads, now THAT would be a curious item. would they pierce normal steel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The idea of VS armor is ridiculous. Sure, it's lighter and more rigid, but those qualities are only mildly beneficial for plate armor, and Valyrian steel is exorbitantly expensive, and was anything but cheap even when Valyria still existed. A suit of plate that's a marginal improvement over the base model and costs as much as a dozen Valyrian longswords (going off weight) makes the $435 hammer look like a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archmaester Drew Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The idea of VS armor is ridiculous. Sure, it's lighter and more rigid, but those qualities are only mildly beneficial for plate armor, and Valyrian steel is exorbitantly expensive, and was anything but cheap even when Valyria still existed. A suit of plate that's a marginal improvement over the base model and costs as much as a dozen Valyrian longswords (going off weight) makes the $435 hammer look like a bargain. Exactly. Valyrian steel is most effective as a bladed weapon due to its lightness, strength, and ability to keep a razor sharp edge. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Valyrian steel isn't that rare. At some point Tyrion was musing that there are around 200 blades from the stuff in Westeros alone - and at least one of them belonged to the Hightowers (last seen during the Dance of Dragons). Any number of those blades might be in possession of the Citadel. From that point, it's just a matter of finding a smith who can rework it. Alternatively, if you assume that the maesters have been using VS for their chains for as long as they've been studying the Higher Mysteries, it may very well be that the Citadel has been buying the material directly from the Valyrians up until the Doom. In this case, they may have a stockpile of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodorisfaclessman Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 A few things have always bugged me about Valyrian Steel. -How come we always see Valyrian steel as swords? If the steel is lighter and stronger than normal steel wouldn’t the Valyrians at the height of their empire have say Valyrian spear tips, whole sets of armored or better yet shields? I was hoping that the World of Ice and Fire would share some legend about a Valyrian hero who wore a suit of Valyrian steel but nothing came up. -When a Maester’s forges a chain in the Higher Mysteries (magic) in Valyrian Steel, now Valyrian steel is very rare and costly so where does the Citadel get the Steel? I know having a valyrian chain line is rare but even if a few got it every year they would run out of it if they had a limited supply. Could the Citidal know how to make Valyrian steel but is keeping it to themselves because it involves magic and those weapons would be too dangerous on the battlefield in high numbers? -Also if Valyrian Steel is Dragon Steel made with actual fire dragons could the armor and weapons of the others be made the same way only using Ice Dragons? It would explain why their swords are strong enough to cut through steel and yet are cold. - Swords are generaly hard to make weapons of nobility, if valyrian steel is complex and or expensive to make we can assume its rarely used to make weapons other than steel We know of many VS sword but only one arkh and one battleaxe A Suit of VS would prob be mind boggingly expensive and difficult to make even at the valyrian empires peak offering some slight mobility improvement(lighter) but not much extra protection (as opponents will still aim for unprotected joints or concussive force to beat armoured opponents as they do with regular armour) - We can assume based on what we know of the order the maesters who get that link are rare indeed , so all the order needs is a tiny piece of VS every so often -Who knows, GRMM says they can do things with ice that we cant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimples Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 valyrian arrowheads, now THAT would be a curious item. would they pierce normal steel? I would think no, because Valyrian steel isn't inherently sharper than normal steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 If VS had amazing armor piercing capabilities while being prohibitively expensive, I would expect a lot of VS spearheads. It takes little metal and when the spear breaks you re-use the head. I'm assuming its armor piercing capabilities are not therefore in a completely different league from standard steel. We're told it's very light. An axe or a mass benefit very little from being lighter. These are impacts weapons, making them lighter makes them less effective. But to a lesser extent, it's also true of a sword. A strong fighter is able to swing a steel sword as fast he would swing his empty hands, so giving him a lighter sword actually diminish how much kinetic energy his blows will carry. I doubt VS is really all that much lighter unless it's not using steel at all as its basis. If it's as strong as suggested, a smith probably simply uses a little less metal to make a sword than he would if it was normal steel. That makes the sword effectively lighter. But a strong fighter would want his VS steel to be roughly as heavy as a normal steel sword, given the choice (It's really not that heavy to start with). For sure it's supposed to be much stronger and keeps it edge perfectly because it's all but indestructible (Meaning Ned sharpening his sword in the weirwood was a bit silly, he should have stopped at cleaning it). This is undisputably true because you wouldn't be able to use the same sword in battle through several generations if it wasn't all but indestructible. These seems qualities that would make them extraordinary as armor. If it doesn't ever lose its edge, it surely won't dent and cave inward when bashed around in combat. The problem is that it takes more metal to make an armor and it has to be fitted to the wearer. Ideally, so does a sword, but I can fight effectively with a sword that is a few inches too loong or short for my size while If a breastplate doesn't fit, it's gonna get awkward. Therefore an armor would be much more expensive AND not as easily transferable to your heirs, making it undesirable unless you were ridiculously wealthy. I bet some suits where made in Valyria, though. For the record, the official roleplaying game of ASOIAF (by Green Ronin) simply gives a meager +1 damage to VS swords compared to castle forged one (best non VS swords), making it only marginally better than a superior sword forged by a good smith. And the better the fighter, the more marginal the improvement becomes. I don't know how thoroughly they are supervised, but in exchange for their license they are tasked with being as faithful as possible (doesn't make them canon, but still). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I would like to point out that while Valyria was around, VS swords weren't as prohibitively expensive as some people make them out to be. The cost was enough gold to raise an army, and that's something any great lord of the 7 kingdoms can do. If we look at how much money Tywin spends(raises a host to defeat Reynes and Tarbecks, pays off crowns debts to iron bank, lives extremely lavishly, raises host to defeat Aerys, raises host during Greyjoy rebellion, rebuilds entire fleet after rebellion, loans crown 3 million gold dragons, raises 3 hosts during wo5k.) We can see that the cost really shouldn't be considered prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaak Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Also it is odd how no family except Targaryens seems to have more than one Valyrian sword. If the whole Westeros has about 200 Valyrian swords, then on average a kingdom should have about 30 Valyrian swords. Most of them, naturally, yielded by the lords bannermen as ancestral sword and symbol of authority; but if Lannisters had 30 bannermen who could afford a Valyrian sword, why shouldn´t the royal families have been able to own 2 or 3 or 5, and give them to suitably family members, or castellan or commander of guard - people who need to fight well, survive and show authority? And Targaryens had just 2 - Dark Sister and Blackfyre. For me, 20 would seem more appropriate - 7 Kingsguard all with their blades, some with princes, and perhaps a sword for Hand and another for Lord Commander of Gold Cloaks? And what do you think happened to ancestral Valyrian swords of Houses extinguished by Conquest? Fire will not harm Valyrian sword, as established by cremation of Aegon. The Hoare ancestral sword might have got stuck in lava that solidified... but how about Gardener and Durrandon ancestral Valyrian swords? Forged into Iron Throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 (VALYRIAN METAL THE OTHER STEEL) One must use blood and dragon fire to make one. But Valyrian steel has been forged into rods , maester links and crowns . I have one question where did the Starks get theirs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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