TheWitch Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Did anyone else start to feel somewhat sorry for the mad king in TWOIAF? There where a few parts that where quite touching, One on how the mad king thought the crows cheering for Jamie were cheering for him and him hallucinating that the laughing tree shield was actually laughing at him. I just felt it added a more human aspect to him, highlighting that he was seriously damaged, especially in contrast to his younger self. The characters in ASOIAF descriptions paint his as a villain (and rightly so), but TWOIAF gave us a new angle. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 No, if anything it showed how conceited and an overall arrogant asshole thatscumbag was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWitch Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 He wasn't arrogant he was a paranoid schizophrenic. He was the MAD king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He was clearly very ill. Yeah, I feel a little sorry for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He wasn't arrogant he was a paranoid schizophrenic. He was the MAD king.Bullshit, his being called the mad king has nothing to do with any medical diagnosis. His burnings, rapes, and exterminations may have occurred after The Defiance, but TWOIAF (however biased) portrays him as an arrogant piece of shit long before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bent branch Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yeah, I feel very sorry for Aerys. There was a conspiracy against him from the very start. I feel certain that the there was a maester's conspiracy against the Targaryens at least since the tragedy at Summerhall. I am certain Jaehaerys II the second was poisoned by Pycelle. I am certain at least some of Aerys and Rhaella's children were poisoned by Pycelle. There was a concerted effort to twist everything he did or said to make him look bad. Aerys was definitely mad by the end, but he was pushed that way from the very beginning of his reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWitch Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 Was he arrogant in his youth? Yes! Most young men raised into direct power would be. I didn't say that I agree with his crimes against other people. However, in the style of GRRM's writing he throws another angle on it. He wasn't just 'evil' but clearly very very ill, and was drawn to commit savage things. Saying he was just "arrogant" is looking at his character very one dimensionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Being an asshole and suffering from paranoid schizophrenia are not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The part about his grief over the deaths of his children was very touching.. how he handled it, not so much.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I really pity. He needed a proper physician, not a bunch of lickspittles feeding him the idea that he could be 'Aerys the Wise'. Aerys clearly was not the nicest guy in the world while he was overall still sane, but he had also no inherently cruel tendencies like Maegor, Daemon, or Aerion, nor was he the kind of scumbag Aegon IV was/became. He had his lapses, and did some cruel things, but prior to Duskendale those were exceptions, and he really tried to make amends (his walk of repentance to the Great Sept), even if that did not help the people he had tortured to death. I really think Aerys could have remained a stable and harmless king if he had received proper medication (assuming that his affliction was treatable by the means of modern medicine). And we should also keep in mind that the Tywin-Aerys-thing was also essentially caused by Aerys' sickness. Part of his personality disorder apparently was that he was unable to cut ties to males he had grown fond of in his childhood. The relationship of Tywin and Aerys has essentially all the criteria of marriage gone bad in which neither spouse has to the guts to file a divorce. And in that sense Tywin is to be blamed for that as well. Any man who was not driven by the ambitious goal to marry into the royal family would have resigned as Hand long before the Jaime incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clueless Northman Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yeah, I feel very sorry for Aerys. There was a conspiracy against him from the very start. I feel certain that the there was a maester's conspiracy against the Targaryens at least since the tragedy at Summerhall. I am certain Jaehaerys II the second was poisoned by Pycelle. I am certain at least some of Aerys and Rhaella's children were poisoned by Pycelle. There was a concerted effort to twist everything he did or said to make him look bad. Aerys was definitely mad by the end, but he was pushed that way from the very beginning of his reign. In this case, odds are that the maesters were behind the Defiance of Duskendale as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 No pity for that scumbag, only the people who had to put up with the blowhard And we should also keep in mind that the Tywin-Aerys-thing was also essentially caused by Aerys' sickness. Part of his personality disorder apparently was that he was unable to cut ties to males he had grown fond of in his childhood. The relationship of Tywin and Joanna has essentially all the criteria of marriage gone bad in which neither spouse has to the guts to file a divorce. And in that sense Tywin is to be blamed for that as well. Any man who was not driven by the ambitious goal to marry into the royal family would have resigned as Hand long before the Jaime incident. It was essentially caused by Aerys being a jealous douche and Tywin being good at being Hand. We know almost nothing about Tywin and Joanna's marriage so how the hell does it meet that criteria? Tywin did try to resign but Aerys wouldn't let him. Your right though of course, Tywin is to be blamed for everything involving Aerys, the poor guy was "sick", which means it wasn't his fault. Surely Aerys would of remained on a completely sane path had Tywin not been around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I know that Tywin tried to resign in 272 AC. I meant that he could have gone in 276 or 277 when it became clear that their relationship was beyond any repair. Yet he continued, that was not exactly a sign that he was doing to smart/sane thing. If you deal with an obvious madman - and the post-Duskendale Aerys clearly was insane - then you as the sane person have actually the responsibility to try to deescalate things. I made a typo up there, I meant to say that I really see Tywin's and Aerys' relationship as a marriage gone bad. And Joanna did not figure into that all that much since she died in 273 AC, whereas Tywin's and Aerys' relationship continued thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I didn't. He humilliated his best ally and best friend for no reason, just because Tywin was being competent making the realm a better place and he was just a moronic asshole with a crown on his head. I don't feel sorry for Aerys, he was a jerk to his wife, he had a lot of lovers, not different from Aegon IV in this matter and I bet he had many bastards out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 It all depends how much you think his obnoxious behaviour was down to mental illness, as opposed to a bad character. Clearly, Duskendale unhinged him. Prior to that he'd murdered one mistress and her family, torn out Ser Ilyn Payne's tongue, and behaved offensively towards Tywin and Joanna.. My guess is that without the mental illness, he'd have been a selfish and lazy king, but without being a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I really pity him. It's clearly someone who could have been an OK king if he had had a good hand, a good council and some good friends around. Also, it must be remembered that most of what we read about him is via Pycelle + a maester who doesn't want to antagonize the king's father-in-law. If Aerys had any redemptive qualities, surely they weren't discussed in AWOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon's Daughter Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Like many others, I really do think he was a paranoid schizophrenic or something along those lines. I think he had a cruel streak, which was only made worse by his paranoia. Watching his wife have 3+ miscarriages, 3 stillbirths, and having three of his kids die in infancy wouldn't have helped him either. Would he have ever been a great king? No. But I think he could have been a lot better if he was medicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equilibrium Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Yeah I am very sorry that reality would not bend for him to make his magnificent plans come to light Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 He was insane. What do you do when a relative is insane in any way? You try to keep them protected. In this case, they could do nothing. That insane man was the King. They were meant to obey HIM and all of his mad orders. Not obey him would make them all the BAD guys there, the dishonourable and the rebels. :dunno: Talk about a hard situation. If you believe that is hard to send a parent to a home or a mental clinic, imagine doing it when such parent has the power to get you kill with one order. Nevertheless, despite all of his shenanigans, his insults, his rudeness and his mistrust, what Rhaegar said? "My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour.". Many is said about how Rhaegar should have acted sooner, but the crazy man we talk about what his father, and he did love him, even if a little bit. So, yeah. I pity Aerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faydra Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 To me, he's on par with Sandor and Arya. It's a shame he didn't have a friend other than Tywin Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.