Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I'm guessing we're going to have a lot of hearings based on disingenuous statements regarding the ACA... -"Obamacare will question your sex life." - Betsy McCaughey. False.-"No U.S.-trained doctors will accept Obamacare." -Ann Coulter. False.-"The IRS will keep a database of health secrets." - Michele Bachmann. False.-"Obamacare means forced home inspections." - Conservative Anon. bloggers. False.-"Muslims are exempt from Obamacare." - Chain email. False.-"The Affordable Care Act alters the "sensible doctor-patient-relationship-centered health care program ... we see today." - Sarah Palin. False.-"Small businesses - 60 percent - will lose their health care, 45 percent of big business and a large percentage of individual health." - Sean Hannity. False.-"The insurance industry is actually run by mostly Democrats." - Dana Perino. False.-"Hidden language in healthcare.gov means users waive any reasonable right to privacy of your personal information." - Joe Barton. False.-"In 45 out of 50 states, on average men are seeing their premiums double, going up 99 percent. Women up 62 percent." - Sean Hannity. False.-"Local law enforcement . . . will have access to the [Obamacare] Data Hub's treasure trove of personal info." - Evan Feinberg. False.-"President has given 1,100 special waivers to his friends" for Obamacare." - Mick Mulvaney. False.-"Virtually every person across this country has seen premiums going up and up and up" due to Obamacare." - Ted Cruz. False.-The health care marketplaces have "no privacy protections." - Tom Cotton. False.-"UPS left 15,000 employees' spouses "without health insurance" and told them to, "go on an exchange with no employer subsidy." - Ted Cruz. False.-"Under Obamacare, people who "have a doctor they've been seeing for the last 15 or 20 years, they won't be able to keep going to that doctor." - Marco Rubio. False.-"75 percent of small businesses now say they are going to be forced to either fire workers or cut their hours." - Marco Rubio. False.-"A hidden provision in Obamacare taxes sporting goods as medical devices." -conservative chain email. False.-"The IRS will have the ability potentially" to deny or delay health care." -Michele Bachmann. False.-"Expanding Medicaid will worsen health care options for the most vulnerable among us in Texas." - Ted Cruz. False.-Said the Democrats told the Catholic Church that they'll use federal powers to shut down church charities and hospitals if the church doesn't change its beliefs. - Ted Cruz. False. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprincethatwasntpromised Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Oh my! You mean to tell me that politicians obfuscate the truth in order to pass legislation? Excuse me, but I must retire to my Fainting Couch.I'll answer the questions you both manhole and shallot since you can't formulate an answer together.Two questions:Lack of transparency (lying about the mandate)in the case of the ACA, would be a huge advantage for who exactly?What group of American voters were misled, resulting in their support of the ACA?Question 1: A lack of transparency in the mandate would benefit.... The legislators, president, and proponents of the ACA! Question 2: The "stupid" voters that were misled, resulting in support for ACA were... Voters voting for legislators who would pass legislation for ACA knowing Obama would sign it.Gruber wasn't referring to Republicans or conservatives because we knew it would cost taxpayers from the start and warned the electorate. That's why Obama had to go around campaigning, even though dems had absolute control. He had to try and convince his "stupid" voters it was a legit bill. Myth busted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I'll answer the questions you both manhole and shallot since you can't formulate an answer together.Question 1: A lack of transparency in the mandate would benefit.... The legislators, president, and proponents of the ACA!Question 2: The "stupid" voters that were misled, resulting in support for ACA were... Voters voting for legislators who would pass legislation for ACA knowing Obama would sign it.Gruber wasn't referring to Republicans or conservatives because we knew it would cost taxpayers from the start and warned the electorate. That's why Obama had to go around campaigning, even though dems had absolute control. He had to try and convince his "stupid" voters it was a legit bill.Myth busted You are truly a light that shines where the sun does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprincethatwasntpromised Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 You are truly a light that shines where the sun does not.You had and continue to have an opportunity to answer the questions? I guess you guys gonna plead the fifth like ole Lois! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 You had and continue to have an opportunity to answer the questions? I guess you guys gonna plead the fifth like ole Lois! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdeo7Q2E5cE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprincethatwasntpromised Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Love that show.... One, two, three, four, fif' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theprincethatwasntpromised Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Are we done for the night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1918me Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 War on poverty I hope you're not referencing that article from last thread, because I don't think I'd seen so many irrelevant statistics in my life, assuming the broken links ever led anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 The President is just using the tools he has available to him to put the squeeze on Congress to figure out the immigration problem...because that is their job. This was my thought, pretty much exactly. I just wish the 24-hour networks would stop treating each development like they're goddam Sportscenter. Edited: deleted previous post and replaced with the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 "For a scandal that is frequently derided as 'fake,' it is amazing how often real evidence disappears. The disappearing act is so frequent, it is reasonable to wonder whether it is really a systematic attempt to destroy evidence of abuse of power."How can you honestly call this a bogus scandal? It's proven they were targeting. The only question that remains is was it an internal or external push to target conservatives? The answers to which were " lost " due to hard drive crashes. The emails would prove guilt or innocence fairly quickly. Finding 30,000 that were believed to be lost may help to get to the truth. Isn't that what we all want Larry, the truth?You can't handle the truth ... about Benghazi.It seems conservatives were targeted. But, c'mon, we both know this is about "getting" Obama.It's OK if you can't answer the questions, shallot. The first refers to the mandate actually being a tax. The second refers to the voters Gruber was referencing. Or are you wanting an explanation of the Cadillac tax, to which Gruber said this...It turns out politically, its really hard to get rid of. And the only way we could get rid of it was first by mislabeling it, calling it a tax on insurance plans rather than a tax on people, when we all know its a tax on people who hold those insurance plans.Seems like your having a Chicago moment all over again...With regards to "the stupidity of.the American people" would you have preferred that he had said the naivety of.the American people? How about if he had said the American people aren't interested in details? All of those phrases are interchangeable because they all mean the same shit. The only difference being that people's feelings wouldn't have been hurt. You know, it's not what you say, but how you say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 TPTWP,The ACLU is quite consistent and apolitical in its postions. Almost as though it really cares about the liberty protections in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.Did you read the anti-Federalist stuff I linked up thread?As for the Mandate I hate it with a holy passion (for the same reason I hate Wickard v. Filburn (don't get me started)) and it pisses me off that it was justified as Constitutional under the "Taxing Power" when Congress and the President did everything they could during the run up to the vote on the ACA to prevent the mandate penalties from being called "Taxes".That said there is nothing we can use, other than the Court itself, to review its holdings. They held the mandate penalties are taxes. Taxes are within the power of Congress to create.It will be interesting if a new President, less friendly to the ACA, uses the precident set by President Obama to direct the IRS away from enforcing the ACA mandate penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamSongs Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 That's pretty much it. We're certainly not helping ourselves with our current immigration system, the president is absolutely right when he says the current system is more of an amnesty than what he's proposing. I'm not an Obama fan but I will give him credit where he deserves it. Realistically work permits and getting all of our undocumented workers into the system helps de-incentivize hiring illegals over legals since employers can't get away with paying less than at least the bare minimum wage. And if Republicans aren't going to pass anything (their own bill in this case) then good for the president for finally doing something. Vanilla as it is. You do realize this makes no sense, right? They are still illegal, Obama's just not going to enforce the law and deport them. He's willingly neglecting to do the job he swore to do. Not only that but by giving them work permits, he is creating law. He's not authorized to do so. This will be shut down. Pretty embarrassing if your a leftist really Still a decision available to the PresidentMoreover, I am sure you have told how Reagan and Bush Sr. performed similar actions.This is my take on things...many of these people that are eligible for deportation are willing to do necessary manual labor jobs that some Americans refuse to do. Believe it or not, there are Americans that think that being on welfare is preferable to the honest, but menial work of cleaning public bathrooms. These illegals are willing to do jobs that Americans refuse to do. There should at least be measures in place to ensure that they are being paid decently and fairly. I am not an Obama fan, but this is the one thing he has done that I do agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 theprince,First of all, what's up with the shallot? It comes across as condescending.As I stated in my previous post, the "stupidity of the American people" comment was simply a matter of bluntness.To answer the comments you keep asking about; first, what lack of transparency? From the first time that the ACA was being debated it was common knowledge that the young and healthy would have to buy-in (to subsidize the sick) in order for the whole thing to work. Shit, when they first rolled it out there was a watch to see how many young people would join. There was even a specific number (threshold), of young people, that everyone agreed had to be reached in order for Obamacare to have been considered successful. And this was being done publicly on stations like NPR. Anyoneone who didn't know this was hiding under a rock.Secondly, the stupid comment is referring to all voters in general. But if you insist that it must refer to a specific subset of voters, why would it be the people who actually wanted and are benefiting from the program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamSongs Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee baby Shamus Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Long time DC politician Marion Barry died this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee baby Shamus Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 SNL nails Obama avoiding Congress. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Nps6eV13Hs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 It's too bad they couldn't animate the whole thing. That would have worked better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee baby Shamus Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 It's too bad they couldn't animate the whole thing. That would have worked better. I loved the part where the Bill/Keenan says "My legs, they're made of paper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 New question, is lieing, doublespeak, or twisting the truth okay in politics if it gets your faction the political result they are seeking?I say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee baby Shamus Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 New question, is lieing, doublespeak, or twisting the truth okay in politics if it gets your faction the political result they are seeking?I say no.And I agree with you. You and I can certainly agree that all sides of the political spectrum do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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