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The Selkies = Varys, Illyrio, Manderly, Patches


Maester Barth

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This is a new twist on the Under the Sea Theory based on information from TWOIAF. I'm not sure if based on the scope of this forum that theories based on TWOIAF & ASOIAF belong in the general forum, but I think it's close enough to belong here.



What do you think?



TWOIAF reveals the existence of Selkies, adding the possibility that Varys, Illyiro, the Manderlys, etc., are not merlings but selkies.



I had never heard of Selkies were before TWOIAF. I researched them and they are based on Celtic and Norse mythology. They are seals who come out of the water and shed their seal skin to become people. They hide their skin while on land and often prefer to mate with humans. They are mentioned in TWOIAF in regards to -Lonely Light- and the -Shield Islands-.



The Farwynds of lonely light were rumored to be shape-changers (not skin-changers) who could turn into sea lions and walruses and even "spotted whales" (orcas). The Manderlys came from along the Mander river in the reach, which opens on the Shield Islands.



The Selkie theory also explains why all the purported sea persons are fat. A sea lion is two to three hundred pounds, a leopard seal even bigger. They have blubber, so in human form they would grow up to seem extremely fat, assuming they weigh the same in both forms. Fat Merling men made the under the sea theory seem ridiculous, but if Varys or Manderly or Illyrio sink into the water and metamorph into sea lions or Walruses, they would have to be over three hundred pounds.



Moreover, the mythological Selkie metamorphosis in myth is akin to magic already existing in TWOIAF. They "wear" the skin of seals, putting it on, taking it off, but the skin becomes part of their body. This reminds me of the magic of the faceless men.



The Selkie myths also had a malevolent counterpart, called the Finfolk (according to wikipedia). They were more like fish people and didn't change shape. They sound more like the "Squishers" from Brienne's POV chapter or the "Deep Ones." The Finfolk had an underwater capital city, and an island far out into the Western Sea where they took humans they abducted as brides. Given the many races of men on Earthos, I think it's only reasonable that there be multiple humanoid races in the water.



Opinions?


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I feel like I need a to come down off of something after reading this... Did you lace the OP with something?

Haha, my thoughts exactly. I never heard a theory that the upfront mentioned gentlemen are supposed to be merlings (what is that even?) but the idea that every fat person in Westeros is secretly a seal? Does that mean that we only find fat people near the coast because they need to slip into their seal skin in the night?

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Haha, my thoughts exactly. I never heard a theory that the upfront mentioned gentlemen are supposed to be merlings (what is that even?) but the idea that every fat person in Westeros is secretly a seal? Does that mean that we only find fat people near the coast because they need to slip into their seal skin in the night?

Well, it could be worse. Everyone in Westeros could be secretly a dragon... wait...

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Hangover:



Not all fat people. Just some fat people. I'm assuming you guys are already familiar with the tinfoil underwater theory regarding Patches, Varys, The Merling King, the Crab King, etc. Also, the Ice Spiders ridden by Others are actually going to be the giant crabs mentioned in TWOIAF which can come on land because they are dead crabs, raised by necromancers, and no longer to breach in the water. Also, Patches is the crab king because he has a weird sideways walk. THIS IS THE TRUTH!


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I believe.



I sincerely believe that the biggest world secrets are yet to be revealed, and the biggest one is that multiple races of sentient beings live in the sea. I think there is an ocean equivalent of the night watch, fighting wight mermaids, and there are sea dragons and underwater volcanoes. They experienced the great night as well, as TWOIAF says the long night spread all the way to Essos, so the entire shivering sea must have been covered in Ice. I believe the broken arm of dorn was broken by the deep ones of the shivering sea to escape to the summer sea, not by the children of the forest. I believe the Eastern Edge of Essos used to curve North through the thousand islands, which were once the mountains on north Essos, and reached the polar circle making the shivering sea one separate ocean continent from the other sea. I believe. I believe Varys is a shape shifting seal engineering a war between the Others and the Dragons, so that the Dragons will kill the Ice Giants, the polar ice caps will melt, and flood the world, in a final victory of the Finfolk over mankind.



And I have evidence. :cool4:



BTW, what does OP stand for?


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I believe.

I sincerely believe that the biggest world secrets are yet to be revealed, and the biggest one is that multiple races of sentient beings live in the sea. I think there is an ocean equivalent of the night watch, fighting wight mermaids, and there are sea dragons and underwater volcanoes. They experienced the great night as well, as TWOIAF says the long night spread all the way to Essos, so the entire shivering sea must have been covered in Ice. I believe the broken arm of dorn was broken by the deep ones of the shivering sea to escape to the summer sea, not by the children of the forest. I believe the Eastern Edge of Essos used to curve North through the thousand islands, which were once the mountains on north Essos, and reached the polar circle making the shivering sea one separate ocean continent from the other sea. I believe. I believe Varys is a shape shifting seal engineering a war between the Others and the Dragons, so that the Dragons will kill the Ice Giants, the polar ice caps will melt, and flood the world, in a final victory of the Finfolk over mankind.

And I have evidence. :cool4:

BTW, what does OP stand for?

This is why Stannis burns people

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I think there's a lot of truth to Lovecraftian themes running through asoiaf and its distinctly possible that in some "between the lines" way Varys and Ilyrio are fishpeople and the drowned god is cthulhu or dagon. If you believe that asoiaf is ragnarok, as I do, then you should also remember that at the end the seas rise and drown out the land.



I don't think we'll ever have a chapter where Varys takes off his skin and reveals his master plan to take King's Landing with an angry seal army (though I would pay any amount of money to watch the show adapt it). I think its more of an inside joke to Lovecraft fans (like GRRM), but one which will always be presented as true in-universe. More fishpeople clues will pile up, but they will never be confirmed.


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I want to believe. And while I do believe selkies/merfolk/Deep Ones may have existed, they are an elder race, and that they are rare, or extinct. Not that Varys is one.

But... you may be right.
There is the black stone that the Seastone Chair and the base of the Hightower are made out of.

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If you believe that asoiaf is ragnarok, as I do, then you should also remember that at the end the seas rise and drown out the land.

I don't think we'll ever have a chapter where Varys takes off his skin and reveals his master plan to take King's Landing with an angry seal army (though I would pay any amount of money to watch the show adapt it). I think its more of an inside joke to Lovecraft fans (like GRRM), but one which will always be presented as true in-universe. More fishpeople clues will pile up, but they will never be confirmed.

Thank you. I am a total believer in the Ragnarok theory as well. Nonbelievers should turn to page 4 of TWOIAF, which definitely is an allusion to Viking cosmology if not Ragnarok itself. It shows the ice realm at the top, but the bottom of the world map is all fire. That could be a coincidence, but in the fire is a tree that's not burning. (i.e. the tree of life). Viking cosmology believed in seven "realms" all connected by the roots of the tree of life, plus the realm of ice and fire.

I think ASOIAF is a merger of Ragnarok (Anglosaxon/Viking Paganism) and Celtic Mythology. He doesn't track it one to one, and as the series expanded eh has included the mythology of other

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I believe.

I sincerely believe that the biggest world secrets are yet to be revealed, and the biggest one is that multiple races of sentient beings live in the sea. I think there is an ocean equivalent of the night watch, fighting wight mermaids, and there are sea dragons and underwater volcanoes. They experienced the great night as well, as TWOIAF says the long night spread all the way to Essos, so the entire shivering sea must have been covered in Ice. I believe the broken arm of dorn was broken by the deep ones of the shivering sea to escape to the summer sea, not by the children of the forest. I believe the Eastern Edge of Essos used to curve North through the thousand islands, which were once the mountains on north Essos, and reached the polar circle making the shivering sea one separate ocean continent from the other sea. I believe. I believe Varys is a shape shifting seal engineering a war between the Others and the Dragons, so that the Dragons will kill the Ice Giants, the polar ice caps will melt, and flood the world, in a final victory of the Finfolk over mankind.

And I have evidence. :cool4:

I know, I know, oh, oh, oh! ;)

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Thank you. I am a total believer in the Ragnarok theory as well. Nonbelievers should turn to page 4 of TWOIAF, which definitely is an allusion to Viking cosmology if not Ragnarok itself. It shows the ice realm at the top, but the bottom of the world map is all fire. That could be a coincidence, but in the fire is a tree that's not burning. (i.e. the tree of life). Viking cosmology believed in seven "realms" all connected by the roots of the tree of life, plus the realm of ice and fire.

I think ASOIAF is a merger of Ragnarok (Anglosaxon/Viking Paganism) and Celtic Mythology. He doesn't track it one to one, and as the series expanded eh has included the mythology of other

There are allusions to myriad mythologies, histories, and fictional worlds of GRRM's favorite authors. To subscribe to one as the underlying theme of the books is misguided at best. These are nods to 'a few of his favorite things'. :)

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