Theon Greyjoy is not gay/bisexual

[Taenqyrhae]

1. the point is that it is considered feminine in many society, especially midieval ones. domincance is supposed to be a male thing. and yes liking dominant women has everything to do with being submissive, being submissive is the oppesite of being dominant so if you like to being dominated by a woman during sex that means you like being submissive during sex.

2. my point is that people give this as a reason for Theon being gay and I say it has indeed nothing to do with being gay.

1. As I pointed out in my previous post, people behave submissively or dominant in sex based for more reasons than just what turns them on, and I strongly disagree that someone enjoying a dominant woman at times means that the person is "submissive". It's a very simple view of the world that assigns people into categories like that - "If you like A, you must be this, and you can't be that".

2. As I have pointed out before, you are arguing against reasons that are not being used by those you are arguing against. This indicates that you realize you can't really argue with someone saying "Theon reminds me of gay dudes I have known" because that is the HONEST TRUTH.

Why do you hate the idea of Theon being gay so much? Does it really matter that much? He's still Theon, whether he is turned on by men occasionally or not.

[Cas Stark]

A little gay? LOL.

[Taenqyrhae]

So, your definition of social justice warrior is "Someone who pretends to care about racism/sexism but is actually racist/sexist" - how can you assign anyone that label without knowing their internal thoughts? Why would someone who is racist not only pretend not to be racist, but actually speak out against racism and argue that their own beliefs were stupid? I think there's a lot of projection going on here and it's not by the SJWs.

[Taenqyrhae]

Men who like women to be on top arent' gay. They're rather tired or lazy :P

LOL, THIS, especially when you get older and your ability to delay orgasm extends past your ability to exert yourself for an extended period of time.

[John Doe]

There is no reason to assume Theon is not at least a little bit black.

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

There are some people on tumblr who claim. I say this is bullshit.

I laughed.

One could spend a whole lifetime talking about some people who claim something on tumblr and that being complete bullshit. But to address the actual issue, yes there really isn't anything substantive pointing to him being gay. He seems like a straight man who enjoys having sex with women, a man with a lot of issues albeit.

[Maid So Fair]

But the REAL question is whether Theon is a TRUE Scotsman.

[INCBlackbird]

This and other posts make me think you are very sexually naive, and probably don't have much contact with gay people.

I had a girlfriend in the 90s who was very submissive. I didn't mind, I'm definitely not submissive myself and she was very attractive - but the sex got boring after a while. Then I met a girl who was very sexual aggressive. She liked being both dominating and submissive in bed. Even though being submissive wasn't my thing, I went along with it for her benefit when she liked, and I really enjoyed her company - even when she was playing submissive, she made it interesting and was not the "just lie there and take it" type. My thoughts were along the same lines as Theon's. It didn't mean I was submissive, just that I was bored of submissive women. I would imagine that Theon, if purely heterosexual, would also be very bored with submissive women, more so than I was because he's been getting it on more often than I had at that point, and because pretty much all the women a noble beds are going to be submissive.

But again, I never said that Theon seemed like he might be gay because of any perceived femininity or submissiveness, so I don't know why we are going here, or why you're asking for textual quotes for hints that Theon might be gay when I already explained it was not any specific hints, but a combination of his character as a whole, just like when I can tell a person is gay IRL it's usually not because they said or did something that could imply they were gay. They just seemed gay, and usually I was right. I'll be surprised if the series ends without GRRM making it more clear that Theon had some repressed sexuality issues (whether they were gayness or something else is unclear). I could be wrong, who knows? I do think my arguments that Theon might be gay are based more soundly on the actual character as written than your arguments that he could not possibly be even a little gay, which seem to be based more on the fact you identify strongly with the character in a way that goes beyond the text.

actually, my two best friends and the people I see most often (at least every week but usually more) are both gay and they know tons of gay people so when we meet in group I am litarly surrounded by gay people. so you assumed wrong.

Theon has been with tons of girls, why would you assume that he's sick of submissive women. Asha comes along and he comments about how he likes her boldness, how he likes that she wants to be on top, he talks about "love" to her twice, after just meeting her and he thinks that he "might have to keep her", he's also very "anxious to please her" if you reread this chapter (or well the first part) I think it's pretty clear that Theon is submissive.

the point is that people do not "act gay" everyone is different and to assume one's sexuality because they just "act that way" is you responding to stereotypes. one of said stereotypes is that effeminiate men are gay. that's why I brought up that Theon is effeminate and that THAT is what he is repressing.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

As a minority, I feel a bit offended. I mean, everybody goes around wondering if X or Y are gay, yet, no one asks if Lemore is in fact a latina woman =(

[INCBlackbird]

2. As I have pointed out before, you are arguing against reasons that are not being used by those you are arguing against. This indicates that you realize you can't really argue with someone saying "Theon reminds me of gay dudes I have known" because that is the HONEST TRUTH.

Why do you hate the idea of Theon being gay so much? Does it really matter that much? He's still Theon, whether he is turned on by men occasionally or not.

I did argue this though, even though... multiple times.

I don't hate the idea of Theon being gay, there's simply no evidence that he is. what I hate is people feeling the need to change the canon because they can't accept the character as they are.

[LordStoneheart]

But again, I never said that Theon seemed like he might be gay because of any perceived femininity or submissiveness, so I don't know why we are going here, or why you're asking for textual quotes for hints that Theon might be gay when I already explained it was not any specific hints, but a combination of his character as a whole, just like when I can tell a person is gay IRL it's usually not because they said or did something that could imply they were gay. They just seemed gay, and usually I was right. I'll be surprised if the series ends without GRRM making it more clear that Theon had some repressed sexuality issues (whether they were gayness or something else is unclear). I could be wrong, who knows? I do think my arguments that Theon might be gay are based more soundly on the actual character as written than your arguments that he could not possibly be even a little gay, which seem to be based more on the fact you identify strongly with the character in a way that goes beyond the text.

Ya know, this is the real problem here. You are saying he reminds you of gay people and that makes you think he's gay. That's not textual proof and thus the belief that Theon is gay is thrown out as being completely ridiculous. Saying you have a gaydar is not the same as looking at clear passages in the books where attraction is shown. I hate to say this so bluntly, but "I just have the feeling that he is" is not good enough.

[INCBlackbird]

So, your definition of social justice warrior is "Someone who pretends to care about racism/sexism but is actually racist/sexist" - how can you assign anyone that label without knowing their internal thoughts? Why would someone who is racist not only pretend not to be racist, but actually speak out against racism and argue that their own beliefs were stupid? I think there's a lot of projection going on here and it's not by the SJWs.

that's not my definition of social justice warriors that is THE definition of social justice warriors: "A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation. A social justice warrior, or SJW, does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, or even care about the groups they are fighting on behalf of. They typically repeat points from whoever is the most popular blogger or commenter of the moment, hoping that they will "get SJ points" and become popular in return. They are very sure to adopt stances that are "correct" in their social circle." http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=social%20justice%20warrior

and nope, I do not need to know their thoughts, if you read their posts you know enough. they pretend to be against racism while being racist, these people have said some of the most racist things I've ever heard. so nope, I'd prefer to stay away from their inner thoughts.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

There isn't any evidence to support him being gay or bi in the series...

I mean he might be, but I don't see any evidence for it.

This never needed to be made a thread. It is just that some people headcanon him to be so, and as long as it remains a headcanon, there is no harm done.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

that's not my definition of social justice warriors that is THE definition of social justice warriors: "A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation. A social justice warrior, or SJW, does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, or even care about the groups they are fighting on behalf of. They typically repeat points from whoever is the most popular blogger or commenter of the moment, hoping that they will "get SJ points" and become popular in return. They are very sure to adopt stances that are "correct" in their social circle." http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=social%20justice%20warrior

and nope, I do not need to know their thoughts, if you read their posts you know enough. they pretend to be against racism while being racist, these people have said some of the most racist things I've ever heard. so nope, I'd prefer to stay away from their inner thoughts.

Is this that common, or is this a reaction people in majorities spam when they get called out?

Whats the point of fake supporting a cause?

Going from being a racist or something else to being supportive doesn't take a day.

And yeah, Urbandictionary is not a source. I can write a definiton... Anyone can.

[INCBlackbird]

Is this that common, or is this a reaction people in majorities spam when they get called out?

Whats the point of fake supporting a cause?

Going from being a racist or something else to being supportive doesn't take a day.

And yeah, Urbandictionary is not a source. I can write a definiton... Anyone can.

it's very common. and it's spreading rapidly.

I've linked this before in the thread but i'll link it again cause I could never explain it better then this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B3WQPdqTNs

it was the first definition I got when I typed in social justice warrior. but if you want to see what these people say and draw your own conclusions, have fun with this : http://wtfsocialjustice.tumblr.com/

[thisistherevolt]

Men who like women to be on top arent' gay. They're rather tired or lazy :P

I am never letting my girlfriend see this thread.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

it's very common. and it's spreading rapidly.

I've linked this before in the thread but i'll link it again cause I could never explain it better then this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B3WQPdqTNs

it was the first definition I got when I typed in social justice warrior. but if you want to see what these people say and draw your own conclusions, have fun with this : http://wtfsocialjustice.tumblr.com/

All I got out of that video is that racism isn't real and maybe black people should stop being such assholes and they wouldn't be oppressed...

I prefer the second definition on Urban Dictionary. A term that bigots use to insult people who don't like their bigotry - someone who fights against discrimination and hatred, annoying people who like to discriminate and to hate. Hard to believe that basically calling somebody as righteous as Martin Luther King Jr. is now an insult, but the Internet is a sad, sad place.

I will never understand why supporting minorities is a bad thing, but whatever. And that blog... sheesh.

[Princess That Was Promised]

Theon might be straight. Theon might be bisexual. Theon might be, as a result of his experiences as Reek, not interested in sex at all now. There's nothing in the text that proves that he is bisexual (or pansexual or questioning), but there's nothing that proves that he is completely 100% heterosexual either. He's not homosexual, that's a fact, however beyond that any conclusion is speculation.

People like seeing bits of themselves in characters, especially in series like this one where the characters are so well written and human. This series is lacking in non-heterosexual characters, and so if somebody wants to read Theon as not heterosexual that's absolutely fine, you can view him as 100% straight and that's okay too because that's you interpretation of the text and of the character. What I don't understand is why you're so adamantly opposed to some people having a different interpretaion than yours, just let them read it their way and you can read it yours.

I've never really considered it, but I think Theon questioning his sexuality (pre-Reek) adds a fantastic layer to him. Obviously Westeros and in particular the Iron Islands is incredibly misogynistic, and I don't it's a stretch to stay homophobic/heteronormative also (think of Satin), and Theon not fitting into that mold is just another level to his position as an outsider. I certainly wouldn't say it's canon, but neither is it canon that he's unquestionably straight.

[Princess That Was Promised]

Actually thank you for creating this thread, I like the idea of Theon being bisexual (probably not what you intended but you've convinced me HAR)

[INCBlackbird]

All I got out of that video is that racism isn't real and maybe black people should stop being such assholes and they wouldn't be oppressed...

I prefer the second definition on Urban Dictionary. A term that bigots use to insult people who don't like their bigotry - someone who fights against discrimination and hatred, annoying people who like to discriminate and to hate. Hard to believe that basically calling somebody as righteous as Martin Luther King Jr. is now an insult, but the Internet is a sad, sad place.

I will never understand why supporting minorities is a bad thing, but whatever. And that blog... sheesh.

if you think that that's what the video says, you should rewatch.

the point is that social justice warriors do not support minorities, they use them as a shield to claim victimhood. and they provoke people with their bigoted claims in order to make these problems worse.