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Melisandre Chapter


yankee211

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The fact that GRRM written a pov for Mel is interesting, because I think there is some forshadowing. When she mentioned a grey girl on a dying horse(which was Alys), daggers in the dark (Snow's stabbing). Other visions she mention like "a wooden face, corpse white" and "beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled."



I just re-read the chapter and her vision actuallly came true in some way. Tell me what you think, I believe Mel's role in the series is more to it than what alot of book readers think.


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As much as I love all of the POVs I must say that I'm looking forward to her's the most in tWoW. Is that strange? I find her so fascinating and terrifying at the same time. She's wielding a sword with no hilt and she knows it.



And she thinks that's the right thing to do. I need to know MORE! ^_^


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She asked to see what awaits AAR- and she saw everything that awaits Jon...from the dead riders, to Bloodraven and Bran, to Hardhome, to his stabbing.

Ah, not quite. She spends some time reflecting on an unsuccessful night's skrying and maunders on about how many seers have been undone by trying to see what they want to see rather than what the Red God sends.

She is trying to find out where Stannis is at that point in time, not because she wants the Red God to reveal or confirm who Azor Ahai might be. She already "knows" that. What she wants to know is what he's up to.

The fact the Red God chooses to send a warning about Jon Snow - and whether its warning of a threat to him or warning that he is a threat is ambiguous and certainly not proof of any kind that Jon is Azor Ahai.

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Ah, not quite. She spends some time reflecting on an unsuccessful night's skrying and maunders on about how many seers have been undone by trying to see what they want to see rather than what the Red God sends.

She is trying to find out where Stannis is at that point in time, not because she wants the Red God to reveal or confirm who Azor Ahai might be. She already "knows" that. What she wants to know is what he's up to.

The fact the Red God chooses to send a warning about Jon Snow - and whether its warning of a threat to him or warning that he is a threat is ambiguous and certainly not proof of any kind that Jon is Azor Ahai.

No, she asks to see what awaits him:

Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R’hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.

Then she sees everything that awaits Jon.

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She definitely is using him.

She's under the impression it's for his and the realms own good.

But it serves her and hers interests as much as stannis' right now so it works.

' I ask for a glimpse of the king and I see only snow'

She been riding stannis to get to Jon.

No, she is not using him to get to Jon. So far she truly believes Stannis is AA, she wants to find where Stannis is, but she gets warnings of Jon.

As much as I love all of the POVs I must say that I'm looking forward to her's the most in tWoW. Is that strange? I find her so fascinating and terrifying at the same time. She's wielding a sword with no hilt and she knows it.

And she thinks that's the right thing to do. I need to know MORE! ^_^

I'm also looking forward to more POVs of Mel, and try to get to know her a little better

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No, she asks to see what awaits him:

Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R’hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.

Then she sees everything that awaits Jon.

Sj4iy: Not quite as you say. Lets pick up after she says that shall we.

"Surely R’hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show
me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument."
Visions danced before her, gold and scarlet, flickering, forming and melting and dissolving into
one another, shapes strange and terrifying and seductive. She saw the eyeless faces again, staring out at
her from sockets weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies
locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows
wheeled against a hard blue sky.
The girl. I must find the girl again, the grey girl on the dying horse. Jon Snow would expect that
of her, and soon. It would not be enough to say the girl was fleeing. He would want more, he would
want the when and where, and she did not have that for him. She had seen the girl only once. A girl as
grey as ash, and even as I watched she crumbled and blew away.
A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these
were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in
the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf’s face threw back his head and howled.
Several pictures later of jumbled mess and her whole Melony quib.
"Snowflakes swirled from a dark sky and ashes rose to meet them, the grey and the white
whirling around each other as flaming arrows arced above a wooden wall and dead things shambled
silent through the cold, beneath a great grey cliff where fires burned inside a hundred caves. Then the
wind rose and the white mist came sweeping in, impossibly cold, and one by one the fires went out.
Afterward only the skulls remained.Death, thought Melisandre. The skulls are death."
"The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His
long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a
shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the
skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him.
Melisandre had seen his danger before, had
tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. He would not listen.
Unbelievers never listened until it was too late.
“What do you see, my lady?” the boy asked, softly.
Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow"
It is not suprising she says Jon Snow,he is the only one she can identify vecause she knows him.She doesn't know Bran Hence the boy with the who threw back his head and howled.
Several ramblings later then...
I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor
shows me only Snow. “Devan,” she called, “a drink.” Her throat was raw and parched.
Mel sees several things and people after that statement including Bran and Bloodraven.She achknowledges that BR can see her.So if he can se her through the flames what else can he do through the flames.
Also after asking the question you are fixing upon Mel starts asking to find the girl on the Grey horse.So Stannis isn't the only query to her flames.
The context in which she sees Jon is very interesting.It is NOT in the context of him being AA that last line is an egg on GRRM's path, a big ass red herring leading people to think of Jon in the terms of AA and not what he might be.
When it comes to Jon she sees everything associated with what she interprets as death. The Wights,the cold,skulls. Then the Flames ( whoever that really is) whispher his(Jon's name).She again interprets it as Jon being in danger.When it could well be Jon be Jon is the danger.... to her agenda.
What you posted moreso how you posted it insuated the proximity of Mels statement to Jon being AA while ignoring the context in which SHE SAW HIM. That is not a true depiction of her vision in its entirety.Context is everything.
Black Crow is correct Jon most likely is a threat ....To Mel and whatever she's about.
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Sj4iy: Not quite as you say. Lets pick up after she says that shall we.

"Visions danced before her, gold and scarlet, flickering, forming and melting and dissolving into

one another, shapes strange and terrifying and seductive. She saw the eyeless faces again, staring out at

her from sockets weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies

locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows

wheeled against a hard blue sky.

The girl. I must find the girl again, the grey girl on the dying horse. Jon Snow would expect that

of her, and soon. It would not be enough to say the girl was fleeing. He would want more, he would

want the when and where, and she did not have that for him. She had seen the girl only once. A girl as

grey as ash, and even as I watched she crumbled and blew away.

A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment but no, these

were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in

the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolfs face threw back his head and howled.

Several pictures later.

"Snowflakes swirled from a dark sky and ashes rose to meet them, the grey and the white

whirling around each other as flaming arrows arced above a wooden wall and dead things shambled

silent through the cold, beneath a great grey cliff where fires burned inside a hundred caves. Then the

wind rose and the white mist came sweeping in, impossibly cold, and one by one the fires went out.

Afterward only the skulls remained.

Death, thought Melisandre. The skulls are death."

"The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His

long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a

shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the

skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had seen his danger before, had

tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. He would not listen.

Unbelievers never listened until it was too late.

What do you see, my lady? the boy asked, softly.

Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again. Jon Snow"

Several ramblings later then...

I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and Rhllor

shows me only Snow. Devan, she called, a drink. Her throat was raw and parched.

Mel sees several things and people after that statement including Bran and Bloodraven.Also after asking the question you are fixing upon she starts asking to find the girl on the Grey horse.

The context in which she sees Jon is very interesting.

She sees everything associated with what she interprets as death. The Wights,the cold. Then the Flames whispher his(Jon's name).She again interprets it as Jon being in danger.When it could well be Jon being a Danger to agenda.What and how you posted it insuated the proximity of Mels statement about Jon being AA. That is not a true depiction of her vision in its entirety.Context is everything.

Black Crow is correct Jon most likely is a threat ....To Mel and whatever she's about.

No, she sees:

The dead Rangers- which are found that day

The winged shadow over the crumbling tower- we don't know what this is yet

BR and Bran- who are talking to Jon through his dream and the bird ("king Jon Snow"

Hardhome- which is what he is dealing with

The stabbing and afterwards- which is how it ends

To me, she asks to see something, and she gets it- she just doesn't realize it. And while we know that she doesn't see the 'grey girl' in this particular vision, she has seen it before- and it is also something that awaits Jon. We also know that she sees Jon 'every time' she look into the flames.

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No, she sees:

The dead Rangers- which are found that day

The winged shadow over the crumbling tower- we don't know what this is yet

BR and Bran- who are talking to Jon through his dream and the bird ("king Jon Snow"

Hardhome- which is what he is dealing with

The stabbing and afterwards- which is how it ends

To me, she asks to see something, and she gets it- she just doesn't realize it. And while we know that she doesn't see the 'grey girl' in this particular vision, she has seen it before- and it is also something that awaits Jon. We also know that she sees Jon 'every time' she look into the flames.

Again context is everything and there is a big piece being missed.

The same can and should be said of Stannis,she already saw what awaited her AA.She didn't like what she saw,so she kept going back to the flames over and over again.Whole quote now,no editions.

The red priestess closed her eyes and said a prayer, then opened them once more to face the
hearthfire. One more time. She had to be certain. Many a priest and priestess before her had been
brought down by false visions, by seeing what they wished to see instead of what the Lord of Light had
sent( surely that vision was wrong it couldn't be and what was the vision?).Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R’hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him.(She's hoping the vision of him marching to peril would change that's why she kept asking.Hoping she would get a boon)."Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument."

Vouchsafe :give or grant (something) to (someone) in a gracious or condescending manner.

Then her vision began to change it was and is getting hijacked by another....who?

"A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment but no, these

were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in

the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolfs face threw back his head and howled."

Rhollor isn't showing her Jon Snow BR is,that's the subtle hint being missed.

Mel believes that Stannis is AA and it is not her first mistake as she herself said "She didn't come all this way to put another doomed king on the throne" .Mel is in line to get manipulated by BR big time.

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Again context is everything and there is a big piece being missed.

I haven't 'missed' the context whatsoever. I think we've been focusing on the wrong thing- she specifically asks to see what 'awaits' her king. Then everything that follows (except for the one thing with the towers, but we don't know what that is yet- it very well could be what is happening to Oldtown, where Jon sent Sam) happens to Jon in the future. That's what "awaits" him, and there's a clear connection between all of those things.

I agree that she is biased towards Stannis when she should be looking at what the flames are telling her. But I think we, the readers, have been looking at her visions at unconnected- when in truth, there's a definite connection there.

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Then her vision began to change it was and is getting hijacked by another....who?

"A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment but no, these

were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in

the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolfs face threw back his head and howled."

Rhollor isn't showing her Jon Snow BR is,that's the subtle hint being missed.

Mel believes that Stannis is AA and it is not her first mistake as she herself said "She didn't come all this way to put another doomed king on the throne" .Mel is in line to get manipulated by BR big time.

Are you saying you see this as BR controlling that part of her vision?

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I haven't 'missed' the context whatsoever. I think we've been focusing on the wrong thing- she specifically asks to see what 'awaits' her king. Then everything that follows (except for the one thing with the towers, but we don't know what that is yet- it very well could be what is happening to Oldtown, where Jon sent Sam) happens to Jon in the future. That's what "awaits" him, and there's a clear connection between all of those things.

I agree that she is biased towards Stannis when she should be looking at what the flames are telling her. But I think we, the readers, have been looking at her visions at unconnected- when in truth, there's a definite connection there.

She already gets what awaits him.......He is marching to his DOOM that is crystal clear from the quote.That is why she kept going back to the fires saying "one more time .Just to be certain" because she was hoping that the vision of his Doom would change.That her god would throw the faitful servant a bone.

Then her vision was usurped by BR he showed her Jon Snow.( The question then becomes why and what is the context)

We the readers don't need anything else drawn to follow the herring.Its already made clear with Mel's statement in the end where some readers would bite.That which you use as proof is not proof at all that Jon is AA nor does it support what the author already hinted at with Mel's statement.

"I ask for AA and R'hollor shows me Snow"

He is not AA and R'hlorr is not showing her him....BR is.

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Are you saying you see this as BR controlling that part of her vision?

He isn't controlling her visions i wouldn't use control as the word.He's just infiltrated it.He's showing her images and she is interpreting it as Jon being in danger of course. Bless her soul.

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