Melisandre Chapter

[wolfmaid7]

I actually agree with much of what you're saying, but I dunno why you insist on Mel having seen Stan's doom. Seriously,you don't need divine inspiration to figure out Stannis is going to be in peril. And perils is a long way from doom, unless he doesn't survive. So her saying peril (as opposed to doom) implies just that - she knows he's in danger and she doesn't know how it'll end, but she really wants to.

"She had to be certain" - of what? That all her previous visions (whatever they were) were false? Possibly but it'd be a very odd choice of words in that case, and IMO there are more fitting readings. Her conviction that Stan's AA and has a great destiny ahead of him makes her nearly sure he's going to be OK, but she wants to be certain, and have a vision of his fate. Possibly, she's even seeking to reaffirm her conviction - she's desperately clinging to her 'saviour', but she's not quite stupid enough to not have doubts.

Also, if she kept having visions about Stan's doom, then why did she suddenly see NOTHING about him when asked for one last confirmation? Why does she say repeatedly she's praying for a glimpse of Stannis if what she really means is a different glimpse? I'm the first person to say she's self-delusional, but she's not that dishonest with herself.

You insist "all I see is snow" means the snowstorm around Winterfell, but the one time we saw what she saw, it was clearly NOT that. So, what is more reliable, what we see in the character's head, or what we speculate based on what we hear through another character's ear? It might all serve as a red herring as far as Jon=AA goes (I tend to think of the whole AA business as one very fat red herring so no arguments from me there), but I primarily see it as a clue (that she doesn't get) that Jon and the frozen stuff up North is far more important than Stannis.

Nanother with all do respect you do not have all the info to accuse me of not considering someone's else's side.The conventional side presented by Sji4 regarding Mel's vision has been the conventional side,or it has been the dominant one.My statement was that, its not the only interpretation as it has major flaws and how he presented the quote with such a masive edit cut out info and it made it seem as the statement came before and after.As i said i told him pretty early on that i'm not trying to be snarky and not to take it personal. I'm pretty aware i'm blunt at times and i make that a disclaimer. Seeing that its something i was directing at and him then it should be worked out with him and as i said i told him don't what i'm saying personally.Your 3. is a bit of bandwagoning and its not neccasary but as you wish.

You ask me why i believe Mel saw that Stannis is heading into peril. I draw this from a couple of things mainly it has to do with Mel's attituide and her belief.Mel's belief that Stannis is AA is so feverent she believes he cannot loose and he will not die.Every battle he has gone in she has told him he will win because he's AA the LOL Champion.Against advisors she has touted how the Lord of Light is with Stannis and all that nonsense.She has also gone with him or sought to go with him everywhere( Jon rightly called her Stannis's Red Shadow,she had and has to be in the thick of things).Insisting that if she did not go with him on the Black water he would loose.Mel has a system a pattern which she broke when she was on the Wall.Jon suggested she not go there was no arguements she was rather cool with not going with Stannis, no problems with the plan that Jon put forth.So whatever it was wasn't at that point pressing enough where Stannis's shadow put up no resistence going with him.Lets look at what Stannis has done thus far when has he not been in danger and when has she not been or fought to be there.This might mean something is blocking her seeing Stan whatever it is scares her.This is where the Storm may come in.

Then we get her vision and her words "one more time to be certain" after which she goes into this speal about some priest making mistakes about what they see. (To me she may have seen something that made her doubt a bit, if Stannis is defeated then how could he be AA.The thought about the priests making mistakes maybe her checking herself only reaffirm again by Stannis as AA).

I'm not insisting anything about her seeing "snow" outside WF i believe its the case but that's not what i'm pressing. I'm insisting that her conversation with Jon was odd. Sj14 says that Jon didn't know she was talking about him hence the reason snow appeared low caps. I said Mel has no problems telling Jon she sees him in her fires prior to that ( a statement which prompts him to ask if she plans to feed him to the flames). Why not say at that time I'm only seeing you and its the same danger..watch ourself,keep your wolf yada yada.He connotation is different.Why say " all i see is snow" she wouldn't be telling him anything new if she said "all i see is you".

We know she sees him,he knows she sees him there's no need for cryptic talk.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

Gotta love the ambiguity in all this... :)

Cool. I have brought up this passage before, not in this context, just to show that one use of 'magic' can overpower another. I think it fits perfectly here in the discussion of Mel's visions. Her live fire feed is not blocked but she is picking up interference.

Yes - it's interesting I think, because we know the Wall is a place of power. Mel herself remarks on that fact, and many readers seem to believe Bloodraven is capable of directly observing and influencing events there - through the LC's raven, at a minimum. Given that we know the old gods still "linger" and exercise some authority at High Heart, where the weirwoods were cut down and burned a thousand years ago or more, it's not unreasonable at all to think that Mel's wireless signal may be tapped.

Also recall that Mel herself has very recently given weirwoods to the flames - making that a requirement for wildling passage through the Wall. The ghost of High Heart identifies exactly that use of fire as the reason for old god interference with Thoros' visions - and Thoros himself has never participated or condoned such behavior. Mel... well, if anyone currently living in Westeros has earned the enmity of the old gods, Bloodraven, the weirwoods and the Singers - she's the one. That, together with the fact that her 'enemy' sees her through her own fire, should definitely leave us wondering whose visions are being sent and received in the flames...

[Black Crow]

Yes, I like that notion. We know that the Wall s full of magick and does interfere with signals [cf. Jon and Ghost] so its not at all unlikely that she's not only experiencing unexpected interference [i recall we have discussed this before and it would explain why she's experiencing so much difficulty in getting the right signal] but is actually picking up a different channel entirely

[wolfmaid7]

Gotta love the ambiguity in all this... :)

Yes - it's interesting I think, because we know the Wall is a place of power. Mel herself remarks on that fact, and many readers seem to believe Bloodraven is capable of directly observing and influencing events there - through the LC's raven, at a minimum. Given that we know the old gods still "linger" and exercise some authority at High Heart, where the weirwoods were cut down and burned a thousand years ago or more, it's not unreasonable at all to think that Mel's wireless signal may be tapped.

Also recall that Mel herself has very recently given weirwoods to the flames - making that a requirement for wildling passage through the Wall. The ghost of High Heart identifies exactly that use of fire as the reason for old god interference with Thoros' visions - and Thoros himself has never participated or condoned such behavior. Mel... well, if anyone currently living in Westeros has earned the enmity of the old gods, Bloodraven, the weirwoods and the Singers - she's the one. That, together with the fact that her 'enemy' sees her through her own fire, should definitely leave us wondering whose visions are being sent and received in the flames...

Thank you Snowy :)

[yankee211]

Even Mel said that she fells more powerfull at the wall, more than at Asshai.

[SerWalterPuffsAlot]

The possibility that Blood raven is influencing Mel's visions is def there. The possibility that shes being warned about somebody watching her is also there. And the possibility that we never find out specifically is also there

[nanother]

Cool. I have brought up this passage before, not in this context, just to show that one use of 'magic' can overpower another. I think it fits perfectly here in the discussion of Mel's visions. Her live fire feed is not blocked but she is picking up interference.

As to the visions, Mel is seeing many things. There is Bloodraven and Bran, what seems to be Eastwatch-by-the-sea, possibly Hardhome. The eyeless faces weeping blood are the Rangers who the Weeper is killing, or possibly the weirwoods. She also sees Jon. When Mel states all she sees is Snow, we know that's not true. She sees many things. And the visions are about the Wall, and north of the wall.

In Jon's POV when she says she only sees snow, I took that her visions of South are corrupted by winter and are effectively blocked. ETA, or just not available.

I re-read that bit and when she looks for Mance it's also only snow she sees. So yeah, it's quite possibly obscuring her sight altogether. You can never be sure, Martin is so masterfully ambiguous with his clues. As for the visions, not all of them can be easily located, but the ones that can are indeed in the North:

• Going in the order they appear, the eyeless faces seem to be the rangers, yes.
• We're led to suspect that 'Eastwatch' is not Eastwatch just because of the way Mel came to that conclusion (unless it's a double twist) ... it brings to mind the Ironborn first, the Hammer of waters second fwiw, but that's not much help in determining where it is.
• The next one is really confusing, shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls turning to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing rolling and clawing. Does anyone have a good guess what this is?
• She sees what I interpret as dragons as well (great winged shadows wheeling against hard blue sky), which are staying in Essos at the time and in the near future.
• Then she tries to look for Arya-to-become-Alys to impress Jon, but fails.
• Then comes BR and Bran.
• Then she has some weird bodily reaction and memories of "Melony, lot seven" surface - is that normal for her or something triggered by BR? She doesn't seem concerned so probably normal.
• Then comes what sounds like Hardhome, dissolving into skulls.
• After that comes various stuff about Jon.

So yeah, mostly North with a few uncertain bits (hmmmmm, all before the Bloodraven encounter). Also, a small thing: BR is surrounded by "a thousand red eyes"; and later she sees "Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again." Wonder if the thousand eyes correspond to the thousand skulls in some way.

Nanother with all do respect you do not have all the info to accuse me of not considering someone's else's side.The conventional side presented by Sji4 regarding Mel's vision has been the conventional side,or it has been the dominant one.My statement was that, its not the only interpretation as it has major flaws and how he presented the quote with such a masive edit cut out info and it made it seem as the statement came before and after.As i said i told him pretty early on that i'm not trying to be snarky and not to take it personal. I'm pretty aware i'm blunt at times and i make that a disclaimer. Seeing that its something i was directing at and him then it should be worked out with him and as i said i told him don't what i'm saying personally.Your 3. is a bit of bandwagoning and its not neccasary but as you wish.

You ask me why i believe Mel saw that Stannis is heading into peril. I draw this from a couple of things mainly it has to do with Mel's attituide and her belief.Mel's belief that Stannis is AA is so feverent she believes he cannot loose and he will not die.Every battle he has gone in she has told him he will win because he's AA the LOL Champion.Against advisors she has touted how the Lord of Light is with Stannis and all that nonsense.She has also gone with him or sought to go with him everywhere( Jon rightly called her Stannis's Red Shadow,she had and has to be in the thick of things).Insisting that if she did not go with him on the Black water he would loose.Mel has a system a pattern which she broke when she was on the Wall.Jon suggested she not go there was no arguements she was rather cool with not going with Stannis, no problems with the plan that Jon put forth.So whatever it was wasn't at that point pressing enough where Stannis's shadow put up no resistence going with him.Lets look at what Stannis has done thus far when has he not been in danger and when has she not been or fought to be there.This might mean something is blocking her seeing Stan whatever it is scares her.This is where the Storm may come in.

Then we get her vision and her words "one more time to be certain" after which she goes into this speal about some priest making mistakes about what they see. (To me she may have seen something that made her doubt a bit, if Stannis is defeated then how could he be AA.The thought about the priests making mistakes maybe her checking herself only reaffirm again by Stannis as AA).

I'm not insisting anything about her seeing "snow" outside WF i believe its the case but that's not what i'm pressing. I'm insisting that her conversation with Jon was odd. Sj14 says that Jon didn't know she was talking about him hence the reason snow appeared low caps. I said Mel has no problems telling Jon she sees him in her fires prior to that ( a statement which prompts him to ask if she plans to feed him to the flames). Why not say at that time I'm only seeing you and its the same danger..watch ourself,keep your wolf yada yada.He connotation is different.Why say " all i see is snow" she wouldn't be telling him anything new if she said "all i see is you".

We know she sees him,he knows she sees him there's no need for cryptic talk.

Right, I don't see into your head, I can only react to how you come across in writing. What you think is blunt, comes across as arrogant and condescending more often than not. I'm fine with blunt, and passionate - I'm rather hot-headed myself so I understand both. But condescending never fails to piss me off (although I probably could have ignored it had it not been in the post I was already responding to). And disclaimers are not helping either. I respect your insight and your spirit, but your debate strategies make for a very painful read.

Also, to clarify, I'm pretty much with you on arguing against these visions proving Jon=AA. It was very specifically the 'Stan's doom' part I had a problem with, even more specifically the way you were stating your interpretation as fact even though there are perfectly valid (and more fitting, but that's a matter of opinion) alternative interpretations.

Re: Mel staying at the Wall - so the fact that she stayed behind willingly means she was not concerned about Stan at that point, whereas now she is, and that implies she saw a bad ending for him? Possibly, although she's all theatrics so she wouldn't show if she's worried. Anyhow, the more interesting question is, why did she stay? I looked it up to be sure, and Jon was just advising her not to burn any heart trees on the way and was not too happy when she announced that her place is on the Wall. So she definitely wanted to stay. We know she wants to harness the power of the Wall, and wants more shadow babies, would that be it? Or did she see something in her fires? Does she think the Wall will fall without her?

Re: snowstorm and Mel's conversation. Actually, it's not that odd that she'd want to be cryptic about that particular detail. It's one thing to say she saw Jon in her flames and warn him of danger - she's trying to impress him, gain his trust and keep him alive at the same time. She'll share with him whatever she thinks will give her power over Jon, but she has to be careful not to show more weakness than she absolutely must. Admitting that she's seeing him instead of Stannis would be additional info that seems better not to share - partly because Jon might not take it well, but mostly because she perceives it as a failure on her part and thus she'd want to attract as little attention to it as possible. So it'd make perfect sense to deflect the question with a half-truth that doesn't need further explanation. That said, after re-reading the passage the snowstorm blocking her vision definitely seems more likely.

Yes, I like that notion. We know that the Wall s full of magick and does interfere with signals [cf. Jon and Ghost] so its not at all unlikely that she's not only experiencing unexpected interference [i recall we have discussed this before and it would explain why she's experiencing so much difficulty in getting the right signal] but is actually picking up a different channel entirely

And that raises the question of Rh'llors identity again. Assuming he has one. Mel is similar to BR in as much that their both lost most of their physical body and much of their humanity, and also in that they are conduits of their respective gods. So I wonder if there's something behind Rh'llor that's similar to the old gods?

[SerWalterPuffsAlot]

The question i have if he is influencing her visions is what are BR's motives. And why appear to her as the enemy if BR wants to use her.

[wolfmaid7]

I re-read that bit and when she looks for Mance it's also only snow she sees. So yeah, it's quite possibly obscuring her sight altogether. You can never be sure, Martin is so masterfully ambiguous with his clues. As for the visions, not all of them can be easily located, but the ones that can are indeed in the North:

• Going in the order they appear, the eyeless faces seem to be the rangers, yes.

We're led to suspect that 'Eastwatch' is not Eastwatch just because of the way Mel came to that conclusion (unless it's a double twist) ... it brings to mind the Ironborn first, the Hammer of waters second fwiw, but that's not much help in determining where it is.

The next one is really confusing, shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls turning to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing rolling and clawing. Does anyone have a good guess what this is?

She sees what I interpret as dragons as well (great winged shadows wheeling against hard blue sky), which are staying in Essos at the time and in the near future.

Then she tries to look for Arya-to-become-Alys to impress Jon, but fails.

Then comes BR and Bran.

Then she has some weird bodily reaction and memories of "Melony, lot seven" surface - is that normal for her or something triggered by BR? She doesn't seem concerned so probably normal.

Then comes what sounds like Hardhome, dissolving into skulls.

After that comes various stuff about Jon.

So yeah, mostly North with a few uncertain bits (hmmmmm, all before the Bloodraven encounter). Also, a small thing: BR is surrounded by "a thousand red eyes"; and later she sees "Skulls. A thousand skulls, and the bastard boy again." Wonder if the thousand eyes correspond to the thousand skulls in some way.

Right, I don't see into your head, I can only react to how you come across in writing. What you think is blunt, comes across as arrogant and condescending more often than not. I'm fine with blunt, and passionate - I'm rather hot-headed myself so I understand both. But condescending never fails to piss me off (although I probably could have ignored it had it not been in the post I was already responding to). And disclaimers are not helping either. I respect your insight and your spirit, but your debate strategies make for a very painful read.

Also, to clarify, I'm pretty much with you on arguing against these visions proving Jon=AA. It was very specifically the 'Stan's doom' part I had a problem with, even more specifically the way you were stating your interpretation as fact even though there are perfectly valid (and more fitting, but that's a matter of opinion) alternative interpretations.

Re: Mel staying at the Wall - so the fact that she stayed behind willingly means she was not concerned about Stan at that point, whereas now she is, and that implies she saw a bad ending for him? Possibly, although she's all theatrics so she wouldn't show if she's worried. Anyhow, the more interesting question is, why did she stay? I looked it up to be sure, and Jon was just advising her not to burn any heart trees on the way and was not too happy when she announced that her place is on the Wall. So she definitely wanted to stay. We know she wants to harness the power of the Wall, and wants more shadow babies, would that be it? Or did she see something in her fires? Does she think the Wall will fall without her?

Re: snowstorm and Mel's conversation. Actually, it's not that odd that she'd want to be cryptic about that particular detail. It's one thing to say she saw Jon in her flames and warn him of danger - she's trying to impress him, gain his trust and keep him alive at the same time. She'll share with him whatever she thinks will give her power over Jon, but she has to be careful not to show more weakness than she absolutely must. Admitting that she's seeing him instead of Stannis would be additional info that seems better not to share - partly because Jon might not take it well, but mostly because she perceives it as a failure on her part and thus she'd want to attract as little attention to it as possible. So it'd make perfect sense to deflect the question with a half-truth that doesn't need further explanation. That said, after re-reading the passage the snowstorm blocking her vision definitely seems more likely.

And that raises the question of Rh'llors identity again. Assuming he has one. Mel is similar to BR in as much that their both lost most of their physical body and much of their humanity, and also in that they are conduits of their respective gods. So I wonder if there's something behind Rh'llor that's similar to the old gods?

As i had told Sj14 there are other alternatives that's why it was important that the entire scene be presented as it painted a better picture. So sorry if i was arguing it as fact it was another and to me more plausible taken all the info into consideration.

As to her cryptic conversation with Jon,she's never came off that way to me.If anthing she's been always eager to impress and as i stated she'd already told him that she sees him in her flames and recited the whole daggers in the dark etc to him.So to me it would not have been out of place to say i saw you again in my vision when Jon asked her if she saw Stannis..... And her reply was all she sees is snow.

Again leading me to believe that snowstorm is bad news for all outside WF.Stannis including and her not being able to see anything behond that white veil i'd be climbing the walls.

The question i have if he is influencing her visions is what are BR's motives. And why appear to her as the enemy if BR wants to use her.

That is a good question. Who knows what he wants is it political,magical,politically magical.

Is he a user,is he being used.Is Jon a threat is he trying to help Jon.Is what Mel going to do period help him wheter she knows it or not and he's just got another tool in her. Mel doesn't know what or who he is. She just wonders if he's the enemy but i don't think he's done with her yet.

Again it all depends on what his motive is but the fact that he can see through the fire that she herself has opened is one to give pause.If she can feel things through her flames that means there is feedback and that's another moment to pause.

[SerWalterPuffsAlot]

the fact she can feel the cold stumps me. If youre right its blood raven and we can assume it was him luring her there since ( i think) she felt the cold before they headed to the wall on dragonstone. And that raises those questions again what our his plans. If your wrong rhollo did it to intensify the vision and make his point get to the wall quick and to show BR and bran are real players on the opposite side. I hope it is BR to be honest makes more sense than a real deity. I think the magic in the world is derived from the earth it's self and just some people figured out how to harness it, which i think is along the lines of what you think Wolfmaid and honestly i prob got a deal of those ideas from you and other heretics

[wolfmaid7]

the fact she can feel the cold stumps me. If youre right its blood raven and we can assume it was him luring her there since ( i think) she felt the cold before they headed to the wall on dragonstone. And that raises those questions again what our his plans. If your wrong rhollo did it to intensify the vision and make his point get to the wall quick and to show BR and bran are real players on the opposite side. I hope it is BR to be honest makes more sense than a real deity. I think the magic in the world is derived from the earth it's self and just some people figured out how to harness it, which i think is along the lines of what you think Wolfmaid and honestly i prob got a deal of those ideas from you and other heretics

Yeah that's kinda scary she doesn't usually feel cold.She takes pride in telling Jon how the LOL keeps her warm.But that got her through visions now that's cold.I'm not a proponent of there actually being a Rhollor to me there is always a Wizard behind the curtain. I Totally believe their are people senstive to magic and can harness and the next question is are they tools or are they players. Black Crow has an excellent essay on the Heart of Darkness because it really focuses on the human element in relation to being corrupted.So i'm totally in the boat of Natural magic vs Sorcery and man falling either or and in the middle.I am eager above all to see where our human players fall ,how they influence and will be influence will make for some crazy stuff.

I'm not too much into BR is at the core of everything ,but the dude knew how to play the game and i have no doubt the weirnet was greatly improved the moment he joined the net.He knows the art of war something the little tree huggers weren't to good at despite having all that power.

But could see someone like BR playing a little chess.

[SerWalterPuffsAlot]

For the sake of arguement ( or less arguements lol) lets say blood raven lured stannis mel and crew to the Wall. What are the reasons? Any theories?

[aDanceWithFlagons]

Nah. A letter from the wall and Davos brought them to the wall.

[nanother]

As i had told Sj14 there are other alternatives that's why it was important that the entire scene be presented as it painted a better picture. So sorry if i was arguing it as fact it was another and to me more plausible taken all the info into consideration.

As to her cryptic conversation with Jon,she's never came off that way to me.If anthing she's been always eager to impress and as i stated she'd already told him that she sees him in her flames and recited the whole daggers in the dark etc to him.So to me it would not have been out of place to say i saw you again in my vision when Jon asked her if she saw Stannis..... And her reply was all she sees is snow.

Again leading me to believe that snowstorm is bad news for all outside WF.Stannis including and her not being able to see anything behond that white veil i'd be climbing the walls.

That is a good question. Who knows what he wants is it political,magical,politically magical.

Is he a user,is he being used.Is Jon a threat is he trying to help Jon.Is what Mel going to do period help him wheter she knows it or not and he's just got another tool in her. Mel doesn't know what or who he is. She just wonders if he's the enemy but i don't think he's done with her yet.

Again it all depends on what his motive is but the fact that he can see through the fire that she herself has opened is one to give pause.If she can feel things through her flames that means there is feedback and that's another moment to pause.

:cheers:

Does she ever feel other stuff besides cold? More precisely, The Cold? Can't remember and no time to try and find all of her visions.

Hmm well she gets things like Alys going there for protection, so maybe her sensing the cold is something similar? Sorry if that doesn't make sense, very tired.

the fact she can feel the cold stumps me. If youre right its blood raven and we can assume it was him luring her there since ( i think) she felt the cold before they headed to the wall on dragonstone. And that raises those questions again what our his plans. If your wrong rhollo did it to intensify the vision and make his point get to the wall quick and to show BR and bran are real players on the opposite side. I hope it is BR to be honest makes more sense than a real deity. I think the magic in the world is derived from the earth it's self and just some people figured out how to harness it, which i think is along the lines of what you think Wolfmaid and honestly i prob got a deal of those ideas from you and other heretics

I was just wondering about the bolded, so thanks ... still wondering if there was anything apart from Cold that got through to her.

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

There was a vision in the fires related to the Night's Watch prior to Mel & Stannis' departure from Dragonstone. Interestingly, it was a vision seen by Stannis:

"After the battle, when I was lost to despair, the Lady Melisandre bid me gaze into the hearthfire. The chimney was drawing strongly, and bits of ash were rising from the fire. I stared at them, feeling half a fool, but she bid me look deeper, and . . . the ashes were white, rising in the updraft, yet all at once it seemed as if they were falling. Snow, I thought. Then the sparks in the air seemed to circle, to become a ring of torches, and I was looking through the fire down on some high hill in a forest. The cinders had become men in black behind the torches, and there were shapes moving through the snow. For all the heat of the fire, I felt a cold so terrible I shivered, and when I did the sight was gone, the fire but a fire once again. But what I saw was real, I'd stake my kingdom on it."

"And have," said Melisandre.

The conviction in the king's voice frightened Davos to the core. "A hill in a forest . . . shapes in the snow . . . I don't . . . "

"It means that the battle is begun," said Melisandre. "The sand is running through the glass more quickly now, and mans hour on earth is almost done. We must act boldly, or all hope is lost. Westeros must unite beneath her one true king, the prince that was promised, Lord of Dragonstone and chosen of R'hllor."

.

[wolfmaid7]

To put all the quotes up.

"Snowflakes swirled form the dark a dark sky and ashes rose to meet them,the grey and the white whirling around each other as flaming arrows arced up a wooden wall and dead things shambled silent through the cold. Beneath a grey cliff where fires burned inside a hundred caves.Then the wind rose and the white mist came sweeping in,impossibly cold and one by one the fires went out"(ADWD,Mel,pg.408)."

With mine own eyes. After the battle, when I was lost to despair, the Lady Melisandre bid me gaze into the hearthfire. The chimney was drawing strongly, and bits of ash were rising from the fire. I stared at them, feeling half a fool, but she bid me look deeper, and . . . the ashes were white, rising in the updraft, yet all at once it seemed as if they were falling. Snow, I thought. Then the sparks in the air seemed to circle, to become a ring of torches, and I was looking through the fire down on some high hill in a forest. The cinders had become men in black behind the torches, and there were shapes moving through the snow. For all the heat of the fire, I felt a cold so terrible I shivered, and when I did the sight was gone, the fire but a fire once again. But what I saw was real, I'd stake my kingdom on it(Davos,45 ASOS)

The ruby at Melisandre's throat gleamed red. "It is not those foes who curse you to your face that you must fear, but those who smile when you are looking and sharpen their knives when you turn your back. You would do well to keep your wolf close beside you. Ice, I see, and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel. It was very cold."

"It is always cold on the Wall."
"You think so?"
"I know so, my lady."
"Then you know nothing, Jon Snow," she whispered.”

[JNR]

Gotta love the ambiguity in all this... :)

Yes - it's interesting I think, because we know the Wall is a place of power. Mel herself remarks on that fact, and many readers seem to believe Bloodraven is capable of directly observing and influencing events there - through the LC's raven, at a minimum. Given that we know the old gods still "linger" and exercise some authority at High Heart, where the weirwoods were cut down and burned a thousand years ago or more, it's not unreasonable at all to think that Mel's wireless signal may be tapped.

Also recall that Mel herself has very recently given weirwoods to the flames - making that a requirement for wildling passage through the Wall. The ghost of High Heart identifies exactly that use of fire as the reason for old god interference with Thoros' visions - and Thoros himself has never participated or condoned such behavior. Mel... well, if anyone currently living in Westeros has earned the enmity of the old gods, Bloodraven, the weirwoods and the Singers - she's the one. That, together with the fact that her 'enemy' sees her through her own fire, should definitely leave us wondering whose visions are being sent and received in the flames...

Grade A post.

[SerWalterPuffsAlot]

Nah. A letter from the wall and Davos brought them to the wall

If the letter happened without Stannis' vision in the fire i highly doubt davos would have convinced him to head north to the Wall. So the fact Stannis' and Mel both feel cold, once when looking at the fist of first men and then when looking at BR and Bran (right?) so if this feeling was created by Bloodraven for Mel who or what is doing it for Stannis?

[SerWalterPuffsAlot]

Or are the fires of Rhollor just very descriptive and wanted to let them know its cold there, and it has nothing to do with BR

[The Snowfyre Chorus]

Or are the fires of Rhollor just very descriptive and wanted to let them know its cold there, and it has nothing to do with BR

Possibly. Though it's remarkable that, in Stannis' recounting anyway, the feeling of the cold immediately precedes (or accompanies) the end of the vision itself. Almost as if the fire(magic) had been put out - or reached its limit - upon encountering the cold.