Is the golden age of TV over now?

[Mark Antony]

I mean in this specific instance, since the show isn't worse than the books.

Well I disagree but that's another thread.

Ftr I don't consider Feast and Dance great but Storm of Swords is and D&D kinda botched it imo

[JonArryn]

If the source material is great then the writing is great too...

In reality neither are great but both qualify as very good for the most part. In my book.

Nothing at all makes sense in that statement. You can have a great book and a bad film adaptation of that book, which means the writing for the movie was bad.

The writing in the book and adapting that story to the big or small screen are two very different things. One definitely doesn't guarantee the other.

[Zorral]

Peaky Blinders i(2013, 2014) is hands down the best television series -- new or already running -- I've seen this year. This reaction is based in its combination of conception, style, charismatic characters played by actors who are interesting to watch on screen, with some emotional depth and some substantial perspective on historic matters that tend to bleed in the present -- particularly the relationships of crime, bigotry and capitalism -- and most of all, its writing. Episode 6, the finale of the second season, is dynamite. Peaky Blinders comes closer to Boardwalk Empire in those aspects than anything else I've seen. Peaky Blinders is BBC though, without the budget. But with the help now of netflix, there's gonna be a season 3!

[Myshkin]

It think it's weird that GoT and Walking Dead are being pointed to as the downfall of quality television. Those two shows may not be in the top tier of TV programs but they're way better productions than the ratings giants of previous eras. The idea seems to be to point at those shows and say they're not as good as Mad Men or Breaking Bad, when we should be pointing at them and saying look how much better they are than CSI and Desperate Housewives. Game of Thrones and Walking Dead aren't pulling the ceiling down, they're pulling the floor up.

[Shryke]

It think it's weird that GoT and Walking Dead are being pointed to as the downfall of quality television. Those two shows may not be in the top tier of TV programs but they're way better productions than the ratings giants of previous eras. The idea seems to be to point at those shows and say they're not as good as Mad Men or Breaking Bad, when we should be pointing at them and saying look how much better they are than CSI and Desperate Housewives. Game of Thrones and Walking Dead aren't pulling the ceiling down, they're pulling the floor up.

An interesting way of looking at it.

[Shryke]

I also don't think Walking dead or GOT are the "jaws" moment in spectacle TV because there have been several other candidates such as the aforementioned "lost". Spectacle TV wasn't created in 2011. If Lost is anything to go by we'll simply get a string of shows trying to replicate WD/GOT and on the whole failing. These shows usually take off because they present themselves a little differently - not because they try to be the next "insert last major TV hit".

But Lost wasn't quite the same. It wasn't pulling from an existing fanbase (not an adaptation) and disappeared up it's own mystery's ass rather then sticking to spectacle-style TV. But perhaps more importantly Lost did cause huge ripples in the TV landscape. And, of course, Lost was network television who have, for the most part, been sideliners to this whole golden age of television. The cable networks tend to follow each other more then any of the networks because their business models are nothing alike.

The success of GOT and TWD are already changing shit in television in a different way from Lost. Though I think, as I said before, it's unlikely to choke out the prestige-seeking production.

You also misunderstood (or I didn't make clear) my position regarding film. I totally agree that inventive and creatively rewarding films are being made. I just don't think there's any room for them in cinema any more. MArket forces have squeezed them out and unless you are lucky enough to live in a city with an arthouse cinema most people have to watch these films on TV. I'm not saying the art of a good film is dead it's just most of them are being watched at home.

But this is still also wrong. Market forces don't squeeze inventive and creative films out of the cinemas. Lower budget prestige fair still gets into big cinemas. You gotta be fairly obscure and unbacked to never make it out of the festival circuit. (Which happens but, you know, there's a ridiculous amount of movies being made so there's no shortage of ones that do make it out)

[Fez]

My thinking is that TV is just more fractured now than it ever was before. During the late 1990s/early 2000s, even though there was starting to be a lot more channels with original programming than just the big networks, there still weren't that many channels with scripted shows. So even though ratings had started falling at the networks already (compared to the monoliths they were in the '70s and '80s), and ratings at the cable channels were never quite as high as the networks, people still congregated around certain shows. It was easy for a great show, like The Sopranos, to get a high viewership, through HBO and syndication on AMC, and have many people aware of its existence. And there was the same handful of shows that drove the conversation about TV.

But these days, there's such a glut of original programming, coming from so many different sources, its impossible to keep up. Many of these shows are very good, some are truly fantastic; but the thing is, its nearly impossible for any of them to grab the national attention. There's just too much competition and the viewership is too fractured. I'd argue that there's more great TV today than there's ever been, its just harder to find. It only seems like the 'Golden Age of TV' is over because the consensus of what the great shows are is over.

[Ser Clay]

I consider Feast and Dance great. But to stay close to on-topic, I don't believe we've exited the Golden Age of television; people have been saying this since 'Friends' ended.

Also, as an aside: television is far more entertaining than anything coming or going through theaters these days. Hollywood still manages to mine a solid gem here or there but, comparatively, the television 'Gold Rush' is still in it's infancy.

[Ser Clay]

Also, agree with this:

It think it's weird that GoT and Walking Dead are being pointed to as the downfall of quality television. Those two shows may not be in the top tier of TV programs but they're way better productions than the ratings giants of previous eras. The idea seems to be to point at those shows and say they're not as good as Mad Men or Breaking Bad, when we should be pointing at them and saying look how much better they are than CSI and Desperate Housewives. Game of Thrones and Walking Dead aren't pulling the ceiling down, they're pulling the floor up.

I'll also add this: Where popular things are found, so too are found many'a 'purposely loud' contrarian seeking attention for shoting "No it's not!" when so many others are saying "Yes it is!" Just an observation.

^_^

[Red Tiger]

Id say the Golden Age pretty much started with Sopranos and is still going tbh.

TV is better than movies at this point imo

Agreed

[TheKingoftheSevenKingdoms]

I reckon the Second Golden Age is still continuing, though it is rasping down. Game of Thrones, True Detective, Sherlock, Fargo, House of Cards, Arrow, The Flash, Vikings, the Walking Dead, Mad Men, Justified, Hannibal, Louie CK, Community, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Person of Interest, Veep and Downtown Abbey are still great shows. Just coze Breaking Bad ended doesn't mean all is lost.

[sj4iy]

I reckon the Second Golden Age is still continuing, though it is rasping down. Game of Thrones, True Detective, Sherlock, Fargo, House of Cards, Arrow, The Flash, Vikings, the Walking Dead, Mad Men, Justified, Hannibal, Louie CK, Community, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Person of Interest, Veep and Downtown Abbey are still great shows. Just coze Breaking Bad ended doesn't mean all is lost.

^This. The quality of television is better than it has been at any other point in my life- I don't watch much, but I watch more than I ever did before.

[red snow]

Peaky Blinders i(2013, 2014) is hands down the best television series -- new or already running -- I've seen this year. This reaction is based in its combination of conception, style, charismatic characters played by actors who are interesting to watch on screen, with some emotional depth and some substantial perspective on historic matters that tend to bleed in the present -- particularly the relationships of crime, bigotry and capitalism -- and most of all, its writing. Episode 6, the finale of the second season, is dynamite. Peaky Blinders comes closer to Boardwalk Empire in those aspects than anything else I've seen. Peaky Blinders is BBC though, without the budget. But with the help now of netflix, there's gonna be a season 3!

Interesting how BBC shows are getting picked up by web channels. Guess they can front the extra cash to keep the non dr who/sherlock shows going.

[Veltigar]

This so called Golden Age definitely isn't over yet. Look at the following lists of shows: Hannibal, The Knick (which isn't mentioned enough), House of Cards, True Detective, Fargo, Vikings, Black Sails (this one isn't very good, but it has potential), Outlander, Orange is the New Black, Orphan Black, etc.

And all the shows above have two seasons out at most. So, these are very young shows. Good TV is clearly still being made.

Also, as an aside: television is far more entertaining than anything coming or going through theaters these days. Hollywood still manages to mine a solid gem here or there but, comparatively, the television 'Gold Rush' is still in it's infancy.

This statement is a little to strong. I can agree that the big blockbusters Hollywood churns out nowadays are either mediocre (pretty much every superhero movie) or crap (anything by Bay), even though there are still exceptions (Edge of Tomorrow), but there is more than enough interesting cinema left.

Just looking at 2013-2014 we had the Wolf of Wallstreet, 12 Years a Slave, American Hustle, Boyhood, Begin Again, About Time, Inherent Vice, Whiplash, Birdman, Blue Ruin, Gone Girl, Her, Don Jon, Fruitvale Station,The Grand Budapest Hotel, How to Train Your Dragon II, the Lego Movie, 22 Jump Street, etc.

These are all movies that are at the very least in the good to very good range. And these are just American films (and not even a complete list). Someone who's more in to film can probably point you to many foreign language films that easily fit in this category. Cinema isn't dead, it's the massive tentpole/Blockbuster model that is having trouble. Let's hope it fails miserably soon, so that the quality films get more time in the limelight.

It think it's weird that GoT and Walking Dead are being pointed to as the downfall of quality television. Those two shows may not be in the top tier of TV programs but they're way better productions than the ratings giants of previous eras. The idea seems to be to point at those shows and say they're not as good as Mad Men or Breaking Bad, when we should be pointing at them and saying look how much better they are than CSI and Desperate Housewives. Game of Thrones and Walking Dead aren't pulling the ceiling down, they're pulling the floor up.

Interesting perspective. I hadn't thought of it in this way before, but I do think you're right :)

[sj4iy]

This statement is a little to strong. I can agree that the big blockbusters Hollywood churns out nowadays are either mediocre (pretty much every superhero movie) or crap (anything by Bay), even though there are still exceptions (Edge of Tomorrow), but there is more than enough interesting cinema left.

Just looking at 2013-2014 we had the Wolf of Wallstreet, 12 Years a Slave, American Hustle, Boyhood, Begin Again, About Time, Inherent Vice, Whiplash, Birdman, Blue Ruin, Gone Girl, Her, Don Jon, Fruitvale Station,The Grand Budapest Hotel, How to Train Your Dragon II, the Lego Movie, 22 Jump Street, etc.

These are all movies that are at the very least in the good to very good range. And these are just American films (and not even a complete list). Someone who's more in to film can probably point you to many foreign language films that easily fit in this category. Cinema isn't dead, it's the massive tentpole/Blockbuster model that is having trouble. Let's hope it fails miserably soon, so that the quality films get more time in the limelight.

You forgot "Frozen", which was the biggest movie in that time frame. And it was actually good.

[Veltigar]

You forgot "Frozen", which was the biggest movie in that time frame. And it was actually good.

That's why the 'etc.' was there :P

EDIT: Etc. is used in English right? It comes from the Latin Et cetera and it means 'and so forth'. In my language we use this abbreviation quite often, but perhaps it's not as common in English?

Although, I personally disagree with Frozen being good. The music was very good, but the movie overall falls into the mediocre category.

[williamjm]

That's why the 'etc.' was there :P

EDIT: Etc. is used in English right? It comes from the Latin Et cetera and it means 'and so forth'. In my language we use this abbreviation quite often, but perhaps it's not as common in English?

Yes, it's a common abbreviation in English as well.

[Igziabeher]

1. Greenwald is a jackass

2. If dragons are the main reason you watch GoT, you severely miss the point.

3. With shows like Orphan Black and the Leftovers out there, amongst others(Fargo, Hannibal, etc.), I'd say it's going strong.

[Darren K]

Am I the only one who thinks that HBO will use ASOIF material for a long, long time?

[paddington]

Also I think it might be important that medias changed a lot. The Sopranos was easy to miss on UK tv at the time, was on a latish slot on CH4, now I know about good shows alot early via the internet, so a good quailty tv show isn't just a local area thing it becomes world-wide.

Quality drama is going to sell to a much, much greater audience than ever before. So I don't think the golden age is over, more likely just started. Also in the last 2 years I've watched quailty French/Swedish/Italian drama so it's also become more diverse.

I watch a lot less TV than I ever have before, but what I do watch is pretty awesome.