Mockingjay Part 1 - SPOILERS

[karaddin]

All this to say her being dickish to Gale or leading him on is a highly unfair assessment given what's happened to her personally. She's emotionally crippled and has no idea how to process and deal with her feelings while being in the crosshairs of Snow. What would be the bigger pressing issue to focus on, do you think?

I'm interested in whether everyone complaining about how this came across on screen has read the books? I haven't and I thought the PTSD was clear and well done, and I thought it was also clear that Gale was 100% aware of her feelings and thus can't be led on - he is making his own choices with full knowledge of the situation. See the scene in the victor house in 12 with the "being in pain is the only way I can get your attention".

I've also seen from multiple places the opinion that the raid was a bit too drawn out, which I can understand when you know the outcome because you've read the books, but it was pretty perfect from my perspective. I knew *something* was wrong, but I had no idea what and having it interspersed with Finnick spilling the secrets and basically telling us what is happening "Snow uses poison" as Snow basically uses Peeta as a poison worked wonderfully.

I also don't see how you could cut enough from this movie to be able to merge it with a second that presumably has just as much happen to make a single 3 hour movie without losing a lot of the thematic beats. Sure some things played out slowly, but to me that felt necessary not wasteful.

It may be an example of the adaptation working better for those that haven't read the books.

[Bastard of Boston]

I've also seen from multiple places the opinion that the raid was a bit too drawn out, which I can understand when you know the outcome because you've read the books, but it was pretty perfect from my perspective. I knew *something* was wrong, but I had no idea what and having it interspersed with Finnick spilling the secrets and basically telling us what is happening "Snow uses poison" as Snow basically uses Peeta as a poison worked wonderfully.

The raid wasn't even shown in the book -- it happened completely off-page, so I wouldn't agree with anyone complaining about its length. We were just told it took place in the books -- it always felt like a big hole. That's why I enjoyed the way it was presented in the film. The books were often limited because of the POV style. I was most curious about this film based on the potential for the raid.

[karaddin]

The raid wasn't even shown in the book -- it happened completely off-page, so I wouldn't agree with anyone complaining about its length. We were just told it took place in the books -- it always felt like a big hole. That's why I enjoyed the way it was presented in the film. The books were often limited because of the POV style. I was most curious about this film based on the potential for the raid.

Sorry I wasn't very clear - I do know it's tied to Katniss' POV, what I meant was that book readers knew the outcome ahead of time (ie Snow is letting them do it, they get everyone and they all get out). I've been spoiled on some points, but for all I knew Gale dies on that raid and the tension was very much real and excellent to me.

The impression I have is that some of my favourite bits come from logical expansions that aren't in the books, all the stuff with Snow and Plutarch in Catching Fire etc. The spectacle of Cesar and the broadcast, I hate Cesar but I think that's a real strength of the movies.

[Bastard of Boston]

Sorry I wasn't very clear - I do know it's tied to Katniss' POV, what I meant was that book readers knew the outcome ahead of time (ie Snow is letting them do it, they get everyone and they all get out). I've been spoiled on some points, but for all I knew Gale dies on that raid and the tension was very much real and excellent to me.

The impression I have is that some of my favourite bits come from logical expansions that aren't in the books, all the stuff with Snow and Plutarch in Catching Fire etc. The spectacle of Cesar and the broadcast, I hate Cesar but I think that's a real strength of the movies.

Oh, I understood. I was mostly commenting on those you spoke of. If anything, I wouldn't have minded if it was longer. We never got to "see" it in the books, so I wanted to see them milk it...especially if they were going to make this a 2-parter. Sure, we knew how it ended, but I don't feel like this should've warranted an abbreviated scene. We also know how the film series, in general, will end. It's all about the details.

[karaddin]

Oh, I understood. I was mostly commenting on those you spoke of. If anything, I wouldn't have minded if it was longer. We never got to "see" it in the books, so I wanted to see them milk it...especially if they were going to make this a 2-parter. Sure, we knew how it ended, but I don't feel like this should've warranted an abbreviated scene. We also know how the film series, in general, will end. It's all about the details.

I am spoiled on at least part of the ending, and there are aspects of that which I'm hoping they change. Or at least put a different tone on it from what I got in said spoiler.

[Winterfell is Burning]

This was a good half of a movie that they turned into a full movie, so we had to stand Katniss whining for hours that she will refuse to help millions of people to fight oppression because one guy that is already probably being tortured anyway might be hurt.

[Howdyphillip]

I just watched this in the theatre tonight. My opinions are coming from someone who likes the franchise, but has not read the books.

I thought that this was by far the weakest in the series, and not just because of the lack of resolution. This film could have used a lot more editing. Case in point, Hoffman and Moore have a scene together where they go into a long dialogue about what measures they should use to protect themselves from the Capital's attack that turns out to be absolutely pointless for the story of the film. This was just one example that I noted in watching. I also thought that the military excursion on the dam must have been the dumbest attack in history. These people have enough explosives to blow a dam up, but no one can figure out how to bring a gun before charging into automatic weapon fire and then blowing the dam and themselves up simultaneously?

Having stated that, I still really enjoyed the movie and feel that they did some things very well. Te acting is tremendous all of the way around, and the story is well told when it is not being stretched out. Even with the problems that this film had, it still was one of my favorites of the year.

[The Drunkard]

Watched it, haven't read the books, thought it was the worst so far.

I thought Snow's "the things we love destroy us" warning was a bit unsubtle. I immediately expected Peeta to come back with a contagious disease or something.

[Myrddin]

Saw this last weekend.

While I do kind of wish I had just waited to watch this next November right before part 2 comes out, I enjoyed it.

But I disagree that this movie had now resolution. It could easily have been subtitled Rise of Coin. She had the most growth of character, even if mostly off camera. Compare her bungling attempts at the beginning to be The Leader to the end where she was parroting Hillary Clinton giving a speech. Well, parroting Plutarch. Nicely done.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Watched it, haven't read the books, thought it was the worst so far.

I thought Snow's "the things we love destroy us" warning was a bit unsubtle. I immediately expected Peeta to come back with a contagious disease or something.

Does Peeta have an infectious disease? It seems stupid of Snow to give a huge propaganda coup to the rebels in exchange for an unlikely to succeed assassination plot and a general mindfuck for Katniss.

[The Drunkard]

Does Peeta have an infectious disease? It seems stupid of Snow to give a huge propaganda coup to the rebels in exchange for an unlikely to succeed assassination plot and a general mindfuck for Katniss.

Not as far as I know (I might be missing sarcasm). The whole rescue attempt just came off extremely suspicious (with Snow letting them know he knew, and having the obvious ability to stop it but doing nothing), and then topped off with that warning about the things we love, after Katniss basically gives away her love for Peeta, it seemed like too much of a giveaway on his part that something bad was planned with Peeta.

I initially assumed disease because Gale and friends noted all that laboratory equipment.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Not as far as I know (I might be missing sarcasm). The whole rescue attempt just came off extremely suspicious (with Snow letting them know he knew, and having the obvious ability to stop it but doing nothing), and then topped off with that warning about the things we love, after Katniss basically gives away her love for Peeta, it seemed like too much of a giveaway on his part that something bad was planned with Peeta.

I initially assumed disease because Gale and friends noted all that laboratory equipment.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic- I was just speculating. It seems that Snow's plan, as revealed so far is a bit weak. If Peeta we're carrying Ebola or something, it would make more sense and make Snow seem more devious.

[williamjm]

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic- I was just speculating. It seems that Snow's plan, as revealed so far is a bit weak. If Peeta we're carrying Ebola or something, it would make more sense and make Snow seem more devious.

Throughout the series how devious Snow is capable of being varies according to the demands of the plot, the Capital hold so much power that there's no way they should be facing so many problems from the rebellion but the priority often seems to be messing with Katniss' mind rather than defeating the rebels. We know from some of the creations used in the Games that the Capital have knowledge of genetic manipulation much more advanced than modern science so I'm sure they could have infected him (or one of the other rescued Tributes) with something.

One possible explanation could be that District 13 would be capable of screening them for diseases before letting them into the District. They were the military specialists before the original rebellion so it would make sense for them to have the capability of dealing with biological or chemical attack.

But I disagree that this movie had now resolution. It could easily have been subtitled Rise of Coin. She had the most growth of character, even if mostly off camera. Compare her bungling attempts at the beginning to be The Leader to the end where she was parroting Hillary Clinton giving a speech. Well, parroting Plutarch. Nicely done.

Perhaps due to Philip Seymour Hoffman I think Plutarch is one character who I found a lot more interesting in the films than in the books. He's a bit of a cypher in the books despite being a key part of the rebellion but I like Hoffman's air of calm control and the way he sometimes gives the impression that he's concocted the entire rebellion just for his own amusement.

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

I like Hoffman's air of calm control and the way he sometimes gives the impression that he's concocted the entire rebellion just for his own amusement.

Agree. He's so cool and calm. It's like it's all a game to him.

[Buckwheat]

I have not read the books and I enjoyed the movie a lot, although it was darker and more warlike than the first two. I generally dislike the practice of splitting a book into two movies, but I did not feel like this one dragged at all, and it also had a really good ending scene in my opinion.

I agree with Karaddin upthread that Katniss' psychological problems were well presented and the film did not make it unclear that her mind was strongly influenced by what she went through.

I loved the scene with singing the hanging song over all the attacks.

What bothered me was some sort of a lack of plot - or better, the tasks Katniss was given to do. She was repeatedly charged with filming propaganda clips, while the rest of the people (in the other districts) actually attacked the stormtrooper-like soldiers, demolished the dam and well, fought. I know that she is supposed to be a symbol of the rebellion and that the rebellion needs propaganda and all, but apart from the rescue plan for Peeta, Joanna and Annie, it did not seem like there were any attacks from district 13 at all, although that is where the best trained soldiers actually gathered. It was like "we in the centre of this rebellion will take care of the military propaganda, while the rest of you miners, wood-cutters and factory workers do all the dirty fighting job".

Did that bother anybody else?

[williamjm]

What bothered me was some sort of a lack of plot - or better, the tasks Katniss was given to do. She was repeatedly charged with filming propaganda clips, while the rest of the people (in the other districts) actually attacked the stormtrooper-like soldiers, demolished the dam and well, fought. I know that she is supposed to be a symbol of the rebellion and that the rebellion needs propaganda and all, but apart from the rescue plan for Peeta, Joanna and Annie, it did not seem like there were any attacks from district 13 at all, although that is where the best trained soldiers actually gathered. It was like "we in the centre of this rebellion will take care of the military propaganda, while the rest of you miners, wood-cutters and factory workers do all the dirty fighting job".

I think District 13's leadership regard the rebels from other districts as being expendable. There are also probably practical considerations, while District 13 may have the weapons and the training I think their population is much smaller than that of most of the other districts (aside from 12 which is the smallest and most insignificant of the districts) so it may make sense for them to conserve their best troops for an assault on the Capital's strongholds.

In terms of Katniss and District 13 getting involved in the action you should be happier with the final film.

[Red Tiger]

Agree. He's so cool and calm. It's like it's all a game to him.

I just felt like he was phoning it in :leaving:

[Martini Sigil]

I really liked this movie.... I think that its major fault is that it followed the second HG flick

My only complaint is that they never delve into the backstory.... where the districts are, what they do.... what happened in the war .... what started the was.... the mysterious district 13.... etc etc etc...

Its a really smart, interesting story,,, and that's always difficult to translate from page to screen... I think they're doing it well though

[Winterfell is Burning]

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic- I was just speculating. It seems that Snow's plan, as revealed so far is a bit weak. If Peeta we're carrying Ebola or something, it would make more sense and make Snow seem more devious.

I'm thinking that he thought the only outcomes were Peeta kills Katniss, someone kills him, or both die.

[mormont]

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic- I was just speculating. It seems that Snow's plan, as revealed so far is a bit weak. If Peeta we're carrying Ebola or something, it would make more sense and make Snow seem more devious.

Non-book reader here, so I don't know how things actually pan out, but...

The thing is, it's a propaganda war, and Katniss is the main weapon in that war, which makes Peeta the Capitol's main weapon against her (something the film makes clear). Now if the Capitol kills Katniss, either through bombing or by sending a plague with Peeta, that's turning her into a martyr. A win for the rebels.

On the other hand, if Peeta kills Katniss, or Katniss kills Peeta, that's powerful. Snow can feed that into the counter-narrative he's been crafting throughout the film. Think about it. If Katniss kills Peeta, she's killed the most powerful thing about her, the thing that enables people to sympathise with her - the love story she had with Peeta. Her propaganda value collapses. She's the woman who killed her lover for politics. That's cold. It plays into her weakness, makes her unrelatable.

On the other hand, if Peeta kills her after being rescued from the Capitol - hey, she's dead and their hands are clean (no martyrdom), and, again, the love story is dead so while the rebels have Peeta, he has no propaganda value to them.

The only way the killing could be linked to the Capitol is if the brainwashing thing was widely known about, which it isn't, or could be proved somehow, which there's no sign of.

Even if Peeta tries and fails to kill Katniss but survives, Snow can pull out a narrative win: the rebels can't produce Peeta to show that the raid was a liberation of captives, not a kidnapping.

So it makes sense to me.