Why now? A theory on the sudden rise of the Others.

[Mdoggy]

One question I have always wondered at was why did the others choose to return when they did?

Since the Others were in the prologue of the first book,

• Dany's Dragons could not have caused them to awaken
  
• The war of five Kings could not have caused their reawakening
  
• the Starks becoming Wargs could not have caused it either.
  

Since their return seemed pretty recent in the start of the first novel,

• Robert's Rebellion probably wasnt the cause
  
• The lack of Targs was not the cause.
  
• The Starks becoming Lords and not Kings was probably not the cause
  
• The Doom was probably not the cause.
  

So, What was relatively recent RIGHT BEFORE the start of the book?

Well, the only plausible answer I could come up with was Mance Rayder.

It seems like the rise of the Others correlates with him becoming a King. I know he was working on amassing his wildlings before the rise but didnt his army grow significantly right before the start of the novel.

We also know he was poking around looking for the Horn of Winter. Instead of the Horn of Winter could he have found the Others? Maybe the Others became Angry because Mace was crowned the King beyond the wall

Thoughts?

[John Doe]

Nice thread, but I disagree with your conlusion. I think there have been many kings- beyond- the- wall and none of them caused the return of the Others.

[shadow282]

IIRC it doesn't say anywhere that Mance started gathering his army or looking for the Horn of Winter before the Others came. But both those things make more sense as a reaction to/defense against the Others.

[Stringer Bill]

I always thought the others were like a volcano. After so much time it eventually has to erupt

[thehandwipes]

I think it has more to do with the fall of the Targs. We don't know exactly how long the Others have been "awake" but Craster's been sacrificing his sons for some time now and the threat of the Others made it possible for Mance to unite the wildlings.

[Gendry_Goldeneyes]

Summerhall?

[kimim]

Could it be the very long summer, which portends a very long winter, which would be ideal for the Others?

[Red Typer of Dorne]

Could it not just be that this is the time when Craters sons, who appear to become others have grown. Mayhaps there was one other left in exile biding his time, one day along comes Crater with very dubious family values. His sons give the other the opportunity to rebuild his race and rather than something causing a resurgence of the others. The others cause Mance to unite the free folk etc

[thehandwipes]

I think Summerhall definitely has something to do with it. In the Ragnarok, a giant named Eggther is the first to hear the roosters trumpeting the coming Ragnarok. I think Aegon (Egg) somehow was trying to prevent the end of the world but f***ed up royally. Whether that woke the Others or just laid the groundwork for the Targ dynasty to fall, I don't know.

[Brightstar_]

Don't you have it backwards? I thought Mance became King in order to unite his people to be able to either fight the Others or flee south.

[Pod The Impaler]

It happens because it must happen, because the stars are right, etc.

[Poodle Pup From Astapor]

One question I have always wondered at was why did the others choose to return when they did?

Since the Others were in the prologue of the first book,

• Dany's Dragons could not have caused them to awaken

The war of five Kings could not have caused their reawakening

the Starks becoming Wargs could not have caused it either.

Since their return seemed pretty recent in the start of the first novel,

• Robert's Rebellion probably wasnt the cause

The lack of Targs was not the cause.

The Starks becoming Lords and not Kings was probably not the cause

The Doom was probably not the cause.

So, What was relatively recent RIGHT BEFORE the start of the book?

Well, the only plausible answer I could come up with was Mance Rayder.

It seems like the rise of the Others correlates with him becoming a King. I know he was working on amassing his wildlings before the rise but didnt his army grow significantly right before the start of the novel.

We also know he was poking around looking for the Horn of Winter. Instead of the Horn of Winter could he have found the Others? Maybe the Others became Angry because Mace was crowned the King beyond the wall

Thoughts?

Lets say the Others did react to something like the war or Mance being crowned. How would they know about it? They lay somewhere under ice or in the deep north for thousands of years. Did they keep a spy network for all that time? Probably not. If they did know about what was happening among humans, it would be via some magical means. Maybe it's clairvoyance. Just like red priests see things in the flames, greenseers have green dreams and Maggy the Frog tells fortunes, so would the Others have their own version of magical vision.

In which case, does timing really matter? IF they are reacting to humans, they might as well be reacting to something that they anticipate, like the war in the Seven Kingdoms and overall massive bloodshed across the human world.

Or maybe the long summer simply unfroze and disturbed them.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

TO EVERYTHING THERE IS A SEASON

It was there time .

[Kyll.Ing.]

Didn't Ygritte mention "those things we let out of their graves" when she recapped Mance's search for the Horn?

Alternately, it could the that Mance's amassing of wildlings, then poking around the Frostfangs in search of weapons could be seen by the Others as an act of aggression. If they have a similar border guard to the Night's Watch, they would have taken that sacrilege as a sign that the Men were gathering an army and intending to attack the Land of Always Winter, coming there riding their warm-blooded animals, with frozen fire in their fists. Small wonder why the Others then would go for a pre-emptive strike.

Or, knowing Martin, it could have been some internal strife. If the Others are sentient, thinking individuals with wants and desires, as well as a capability to think strategically, they probably have politics too. There could be factions fighting for power, or criminals, or anything else that drove them to strike south.

Or they could be fleeing from something. That would make for a quite epic conflict at the end.

[Justin Amey]

One question I have always wondered at was why did the others choose to return when they did?

Since the Others were in the prologue of the first book,

• Dany's Dragons could not have caused them to awaken

The war of five Kings could not have caused their reawakening

the Starks becoming Wargs could not have caused it either.

Since their return seemed pretty recent in the start of the first novel,

• Robert's Rebellion probably wasnt the cause

The lack of Targs was not the cause.

The Starks becoming Lords and not Kings was probably not the cause

The Doom was probably not the cause.

So, What was relatively recent RIGHT BEFORE the start of the book?

Well, the only plausible answer I could come up with was Mance Rayder.

It seems like the rise of the Others correlates with him becoming a King. I know he was working on amassing his wildlings before the rise but didnt his army grow significantly right before the start of the novel.

We also know he was poking around looking for the Horn of Winter. Instead of the Horn of Winter could he have found the Others? Maybe the Others became Angry because Mace was crowned the King beyond the wall

Thoughts?

The Starks were always Wargs, a lot of the Notherners are Warg just to get that out the way. My thing I think they were always awake. They have probably dealing with the Children of the forest were of the time up north, once they were mostly dealth with, they slowly gathered up their strength waiting they perfectly good for a take over. That time must be now for them. That is my opinion.

I always thought the others were like a volcano. After so much time it eventually has to erupt

That........is a very good analogy :bowdown:

I think it has more to do with the fall of the Targs. We don't know exactly how long the Others have been "awake" but Craster's been sacrificing his sons for some time now and the threat of the Others made it possible for Mance to unite the wildlings.

The Targs never face the Others so think that has to do with anything

[Lord Lannister]

Yeah, the short answer to this is we need more information. The long summer, giving way to the long winter probably has something to do with it. I suppose it's possible that the Others return to the world unleashed the forces that allowed the dragons to hatch. But really we can only speculate. GRRM said Winds of Winter will take up far beyond the wall, so hopefully we'll learn more about -what- the Others are.

[thehandwipes]

The Targs never face the Others so think that has to do with anything

True, the Long Night was thousands of years before Aegon's landing. But a three hundred year old dynasty associated with fire magic is driven off the continent and suddenly creatures associated with ice magic start resurfacing? It could be a coincidence.

[Archmaester Drew]

True, the Long Night was thousands of years before Aegon's landing. But a three hundred year old dynasty associated with fire magic is driven off the continent and suddenly creatures associated with ice magic start resurfacing? It could be a coincidence.

Arguably, the most powerful Targaryen sorcerer known is still on the continent... kinda refutes that hypothesis! :)

However, Bloodraven may have something to do with it, or at least know why! ;)

[ALandMammal]

True, the Long Night was thousands of years before Aegon's landing. But a three hundred year old dynasty associated with fire magic is driven off the continent and suddenly creatures associated with ice magic start resurfacing? It could be a coincidence.

I think overall theme of the books is trying to keep a balance between The Others and the dragons (or whatever larger framework they might represent). Remember, it's (probably) called A Song of Ice and Fire for a reason. Everything ebbs and flows. Others get powerful in the Long Night, then something happens to make thier influence wane. Valyria starts conquering everything in sight, then promptly explodes. This is followed by a seemingly moderate period of time where it's just pepole killing each other instead of ice spiders and/or explosions. Now dragons had been gone for some time and the Others start rising again as winter comes. Looks like the cycle is out of balance to me, and everything else is a reaction to the Others rising (maybe even Dany hatching her dragons), not causing their return.

[Fire Eater]

How would they know about it? They lay somewhere under ice or in the deep north for thousands of years. Did they keep a spy network for all that time? Probably not. If they did know about what was happening among humans, it would be via some magical means. Maybe it's clairvoyance. Just like red priests see things in the flames, greenseers have green dreams and Maggy the Frog tells fortunes, so would the Others have their own version of magical vision.

In which case, does timing really matter? IF they are reacting to humans, they might as well be reacting to something that they anticipate, like the war in the Seven Kingdoms and overall massive bloodshed across the human world.

I think it is somewhere along the lines of that. The Others likely have their form of divination like the CotF, dragon dreams of the Targaryens, and red priests. They could have likely been told by a soothsayer when their invasion would be launched.