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What's the Meereenese Knot?


Maid So Fair

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Having read ADWD I'm still struggling to figure out what the actual 'Meereenese knot' actually was. Does anyone know what it is/was? And has it been resolved?

ETA: I understand that it's an expression GRRM used to describe the problems he ad with resolving the Meereen storyline - I'm wondering what you reckon these problems actually were, and whether you believe they have been resolved as of the end of ADWD. Was it the timing of the character's arrivals and the potential for some things to be revealed too soon? Was it finding a way to resolve all the problems facing Dany in Meereen so she is free to leave? Do you believe this has been accomplished? Is it something completely different?

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TV series- Complex sexual position involving gymnastics.

ASOIAF- A complex series of plot problems GRRM encountered while trying to write ADwD, delaying the book for a while. It was effectively him struggling to find a way to get all major plot characters back together for the ending.

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It's just a description of Martin's problems resolving the Meereen story arc. Most likely a parallel to the mythical Gordian knot. We won't know about it being resolved until the next novel is published.

Would you say it's not been resolved then, if we have to wait until the next novel? Any idea what the actual problem was?

Simply put, GRRM got stuck with Dany's storyline in Meereen.

Would you hazard a guess as to what in particular was the sticking point, though?

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Would you say it's not been resolved then, if we have to wait until the next novel? Any idea what the actual problem was?

It's explained somewhere. Basically, the issue of who's reaching Meereen and when. Quentyn, Tyrion, Vicky, possibly Xaro Xhoan Daxos was included there, as well. I remember GRRM explaining it using Quentyn as an example: should he arrive to Meereen early in the book, right before the wedding, right after the wedding? He wrote all variants, and kept what he thought worked best.

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I think it's likely how to get her out of there and send her back to Westeros without her simply saying "fuck this shit, I'm out!".

This. Pretty much, Dany got herself anchored at Slaver's Bay and it's problems that she couldn't just leave without it being an obvious defeat for the character. Which I personally wouldn't consider a bad thing.

If I had to guess, Tyrion and Barristan resolve it next novel while Dany and Drogo are free to actually move the real plot forward having flown off as they did.

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For starters, he wrote part of a version with a five year gap with extensive flashbacks.



Then he wrote three different versions of the story with Quentyn arriving before Dany's wedding, at the wedding, and after the wedding.



But the biggest hold-up, I think, was the underlining complexity of the story itself relying on unreliable narrators and Dany's internal struggles playing out in her rule of Mereen. The point being to get her to the point she was at the end of novel, embracing her true nature, without it seeming inevitable or forced. The Dany we see on the Dothraki Sea will be very different from the one who ruled Mereen.

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A reference to the utter waste of time spent in Slavers Bay and how that fictional cartoon villain area dragged Danys arc to a screeching halt (not that it had momentum anyway). GRRM should have had Dany hijack a slaver fleet and sail to Volantis to meet Tyrion, Quentyn etc. Yunkai and Meereen were just stupid stories that many people didn't care for.

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D'ya think maybe George regrets making 3 cities as opposed to one or two?

I think that was the major slip up...

I think he regrets the five year gap mishap and the amount of text he had to write to fill in the knot. I cant really speak for him but I think he shouldn't have made Dany conquer Meereen.

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It's explained somewhere. Basically, the issue of who's reaching Meereen and when. Quentyn, Tyrion, Vicky, possibly Xaro Xhoan Daxos was included there, as well. I remember GRRM explaining it using Quentyn as an example: should he arrive to Meereen early in the book, right before the wedding, right after the wedding? He wrote all variants, and kept what he thought worked best.

I don't think that's the problem. Getting them all of that is not as hard and in fact, I think even if all of them had appeared at the same time with money, swords, ships and the head of Tommen as an offer of loyalty, she wouldn't have left Meereen. That is the Meereenese knot, or at least, the main situation. How make Dany leave without making her look defeated or indifferent? Because, the presence of such men meant Dany to finally leave, and I'm sure he wanted her to meet at least one of them and finally leave.

Quentyn showed up with Dorne backing him up, and she turned him down. Also XXD. It makes little if Quent appeared after, during or before the wedding. Married or not, she was going to say "no". But, at some point, she HAD to say yes and leave. How could she if Meereen is a mess? Dany is not one to leave a place to suffer, specially if she feels responsible. And, a whole economy isn't solved in one day.

So, I suppose at the end, it turned/will turn out like this:

XXD appeared. She said no, because Meereen. And because XXD

Quentyn appeared. She said no, because marriage. And Meereen. But mostly, marriage. But they were going to talk.

Aegon appeared. But Tyrion fucked up that one and he turned back to Westeros instead.

Drogon appeared. "Fuck yeah, I'm outta here!!!". Bye Meereen!

Quentyn died.

Dany in the desert: doubts-doubts-doubts-visions-doubts-firah-and-blood-diarreah-dothrakis.

Now, how the knot started to get unknotted (that's a word?):

Barristan stayed to keep the peace in Meereen, while Dany is having her epiphany. Also, he's the one preparing the war (meanwhile, diarrhea and dothrakis).

Tyrion is making the SS turned to her side, and will probably meet Barristan, or at least with Jorah, might try to put some order in Meereen.

Victarion is arriving to kick some Yunkai'i's asses, also, eventually providing the transport Dany needs.

They all together (even the Archimaester what'shisname) WILL fix Meereen and mostly of SB while Dany will be on her way back with all of the Khalazar to make the final decisions.

She will find out about Aegon via Tyrion (or someone else, who knows) and realise she can't delay returning to Westeros any more.

With a solution found, she will take Victarion's ships and return.

D'ya think maybe George regrets making 3 cities as opposed to one or two?

I think that was the major slip up...

Even if it was only one, I'm sure that one she would have decided to stay and rule.

I think he regrets the five year gap mishap and the amount of text he had to write to fill in the knot. I cant really speak for him but I think he shouldn't have made Dany conquer Meereen.

GRRM needed Dany to be a conqueror. He needed Dany to completely make SB surrender. One city could be luck. Two cities is well, impressive. Three cities is definitely something worthy of Aegon the Conqueror.

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Im still kinda invested in the Harpy subplot.



What? Stop looking at me like that! Im all about whodunits!



We needed another POV in Meereen/SB anyway, cuz its ridonkulous that the only POV we were getting in that area was Dany's. Its why that area looks all 2 dimensional and kinda lamesauce. We really only saw it from her and she dont like it much.


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We needed another POV in Meereen/SB anyway, cuz its ridonkulous that the only POV we were getting in that area was Dany's. Its why that area looks all 2 dimensional and kinda lamesauce. We really only saw it from her and she dont like it much.

And then, people complained Quentyn was unnecessary (he was needed, to see the mess from outside. Kinda).

Now, I'm dying to read Vic's pov about SB. "what the fuck is this place???".

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And then, people complained Quentyn was unnecessary (he was needed, to see the mess from outside. Kinda).

Now, I'm dying to read Vic's pov about SB. "what the fuck is this place???".

Quent was a bit boring, but i found it interesting to see SB from another source. What people really wanted, was someone cool like Tyrion to peek at it. CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR, CHUMPY! :P

Dude, Vic's is gonna be so funny. ":U It smells funny and the buildings are shaped like things that come out of my arse. What is this...? You! Explain!" *Shakes Moqorro*

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QUentyn's POV was an opportunity to showcase the cool stuff about the journey, but what we got was details like "it smells like cat piss here," and "I'm awkward in this situation also."



It'd be nifty if the whole region "goes somewhere" and isn't just a total abortion. Then I'd re-invest and maybe even reread.


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