(TWOIAF) Orys Baratheon- Half brother of Aegon

[rachbabiez]

It is mentioned multiple times that Orys and Aegon were so close they were rumored to have been half brothers. Anyone have any theories as to who might have been Orys' mother with Aerion?

Or if you don't think they are related, could Aegon and Orys be lovers? If so where are the freaking Baratheons from?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Orys is a bastard. We don't know where Baratheon comes from.

However Bara is a name and means fisher in some languages.

Theon means godly.

So you get godly fisher. But what is more likely is that she was some commonborn fisherwoman, and the theon part came later. Either that or the Baratheons are minor surviving Valyrian family like the Celtigars, Qoherys and Velaryons, but that would have been mentioned.

[Jaak]

Orys is a bastard.

No, we are told he was rumoured to be a bastard.

I´m inclined to believe that he had an official father, with surname Baratheon. Who was from a minor family, whether Valyrian or Andal/"codfish lord" background.

Also, if Orys was bisexual enough to be a lover of Aegon, this would not have ruled out either partner also having sex and begetting children with women.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

I'm not ruling out the sexualities. And his children might not actually be his, but he truly loved Rhaenys and Orys came to care for Argella.

It doesn't seem likely.

Who knows, maybe Aegon and Orys were secret lovers, just like Visenya loved magic and Rhaenys loved many others.

There is more indication that Rhaenys and Orys may have been lovers I believe. Not that I believe it but still.

There is still quite a fog around Aegon and his wives. We (maybe just me) don't know enough to make conclusions such as this though.

[TheKingoftheSevenKingdoms]

so the actual Baratheon traits of dark hair actually come for Orys? I thought it came from the Durrandens, which would have been almost poetic in a sense.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

so the actual Baratheon traits of dark hair actually come for Orys? I thought it came from the Durrandens, which would have been almost poetic in a sense.

I believe not. Orys had black hair yes (like his non-Valyrian parent probably), but stormy eyes is a Storm King, Durrandon, trait.

Durran the First Durrandon married Elenei, a mermaid daughter of two gods. This is likely where the dominating black hair genes come from, a magical source. Argilac, Arrec, Argella all had black hair.

Baratheons=Durrandons in everything but name.

[King Aegon The Conqueror]

No I was not gay nor was I bisexual. Women only

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

There is more indication that Rhaenys and Orys may have been lovers I believe. Not that I believe it but still.

Where would these indications be?

[joluoto2]

so the actual Baratheon traits of dark hair actually come for Orys? I thought it came from the Durrandens, which would have been almost poetic in a sense.

It seems both Orys and the Durrandons shared that trait.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

No I was not gay

Bi?

Where would these indications be?

The fact that those two aimed to conquer the Stormlands and Dorne together. It originated in the shipping community... so yeah... Idk sorry. It was just something that has been suggested.

It is always said that Rhaenys entertained other men, but who? Orys would have been convenient.

It seems both Orys and the Durrandons shared that trait.

Orys seems like a once off, while it is THE Durrandon trait.

[The Wolf Lord's Daughter]

I'm not ruling out the sexualities. And his children might not actually be his, but he truly loved Rhaenys and Orys came to care for Argella.

It doesn't seem likely.

Who knows, maybe Aegon and Orys were secret lovers, just like Visenya loved magic and Rhaenys loved many others.

There is more indication that Rhaenys and Orys may have been lovers I believe. Not that I believe it but still.

There is still quite a fog around Aegon and his wives. We (maybe just me) don't know enough to make conclusions such as this though.

Where was this written? All it said was that Orys supposedly treated her decently, and then married her after having killed her father and stolen her castle by conquest. I never bought the "Argella came to love Orys" argument. It would be like Sansa loving Tyrion, despite himbeing a Lannister and working to bring the Starks down. And Tyrion didn't even kill her father.

I believe not. Orys had black hair yes (like his non-Valyrian parent probably), but stormy eyes is a Storm King, Durrandon, trait.

Durran the First Durrandon married Elenei, a mermaid daughter of two gods. This is likely where the dominating black hair genes come from, a magical source. Argilac, Arrec, Argella all had black hair.

Baratheons=Durrandons in everything but name.

:agree: Everything we've learnt about them seems to indicate that.

[Bael's Bastard]

No, we are told he was rumoured to be a bastard.

I´m inclined to believe that he had an official father, with surname Baratheon. Who was from a minor family, whether Valyrian or Andal/"codfish lord" background.

Also, if Orys was bisexual enough to be a lover of Aegon, this would not have ruled out either partner also having sex and begetting children with women.

No, page 226 of the world book explicitly calls him a bastard ("a black-eyed, black-haired bastard named Orys Baratheon").

I too was inclined to think that he was legally the son of a father with the surname Baratheon and only rumored to be a bastard.

But it seems the rumor was only about who the bastard's father was, not whether he was actually a bastard.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Bi?

The fact that those two aimed to conquer the Stormlands and Dorne together. It originated in the shipping community... so yeah... Idk sorry. It was just something that has been suggested.

The shipping communities see two people talking to each other and immediately assume they have a secret affair or they are closeted gays.

Where was this written? All it said was that Orys supposedly treated her decently, and then married her after having killed her father and stolen her castle by conquest. I never bought the "Argella came to love Orys" argument. It would be like Sansa loving Tyrion, despite himbeing a Lannister and working to bring the Starks down. And Tyrion didn't even kill her father.

Argella and Sansa are not the same, nor their situations were the same.

No one forced her to marry Orys, IICR. Her people handled her to him, naked and chained, as a way to surrender. It looks like he didn't like the way she was treated. Nevertheless, she was still the heir of her father, and the ruling Queen. Her lands were conquered, and that's how marriage agreements are born: to make peace and create continuity. He would be in charge of the Stormlands, but the blood of Argilac would carry on through her. It had nothing to do with Orys seeing her as a damsel in distress and falling for her. If anything, she realised he was a nice man who had nothing against her, personally.

No, page 226 of the world book explicitly calls him a bastard ("a black-eyed, black-haired bastard named Orys Baratheon").

I too was inclined to think that he was legally the son of a father with the surname Baratheon and only rumored to be a bastard.

But it seems the rumor was only about who the bastard's father was, not whether he was actually a bastard.

The book could also carry the misinterpretations history has been passing about him. Do we know what's the position old Valyria had about bastardy? As far as we know, they couldn't care less if a guy was a bastard or not. Aegon definitely didn't mind. Yet, in Westeros, those things are important, hence, the need to make him look less, and also, Aegon, a guy who didn't care to share his household with bastards.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^If I had to guess, Valyria would probably see a bastard who had the blood of a dragonlord as being higher born than a trueborn king with no dragonblood.

[joluoto2]

Orys seems like a once off, while it is THE Durrandon trait.

We don't know if it's once off since we know nothing about the family of Orys' mother.

[Veltigar]

Orys is a bastard. We don't know where Baratheon comes from.

However Bara is a name and means fisher in some languages.

Theon means godly.

So you get godly fisher. But what is more likely is that she was some commonborn fisherwoman, and the theon part came later. Either that or the Baratheons are minor surviving Valyrian family like the Celtigars, Qoherys and Velaryons, but that would have been mentioned.

By that interpretation, it is far more likely that Baratheon was the name of an old Valyrian God (or perhaps some old Valyrian hero). Orys probably earned the right to a name when he was younger and he chose the name of some Valyrian deity as his surname.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Orys was a Bastard. The Maesters dont know where he came from, so he came from nothing. The Stormlands have been ruled by bastards twice, soon to be three times either through Edric or Gendry. (RIP Shireen my darling)

The Black Hair is a sign of strength it seems. Vitality. In his youth Argilac had famous black hair, by the time he was fighting Orys, he was grey. Orys was Black Haired. Stannis is of course half bald, he's basically living out of determination and not much more.

The Blue Eyes are a storm trait, mirroring the sea where the Storms gather.

[Moondancer]

I think that Orys was called baseborn either in The Sons of the Dragon reading or in the excerpt over at GRRM's site.

[Bael's Bastard]

I think that Orys was called baseborn either in The Sons of the Dragon reading or in the excerpt over at GRRM's site.

The quote is really ambiguous.

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/world-of-ice-and-fire-sample/

"Orys Baratheon was a baseborn half brother to Lord Aegon, it was whispered, and the Storm King would not dishonor his daughter by giving her hand to a bastard."

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Well I think that if Argilac was not willing to marry them, he would want more then a rumour to base it off.

I think there is truth to it, and I agree with Veltigar about the Valyrian hero or something, or the guy who originally settled Dragonstone. There would be a connection between the Westerosi and Valyrian, as "theon" is a very Westerosi thing.