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Heresy 142 [World of Ice and Fire spoilers]


Black Crow

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Backing up a bit, we have yet to see ice spiders. There are three sources suggesting they are real. I've tried to come up with an idea of where they came from with not much fruit. Actual giant spiders that roam the coldest climates, or are these spiders physical constructs? Possibly these spiders are now extinct. :dunno:

[Or possibly 8 legged frozen sheep as someone posed way back when]

Lol 8 legged sheep,that should be a B movie.You cause us to think of something and i will finish my thought in the next post. I don'tknow if the ice spiders are true,if its some embelishment or because of their skill at manipulating ice they built the ice spiders.But, i can't understand riding around on dead horses,direwolves etc if you can make bad ass ice spiders.That would be way better which brings me to the next point below.

I suppose this could be seen as semi-related to Heresy. An interview comment from Michele Clapton, a costume designer for Game of Thrones, on the White Walker's armor:

Before the WB, I would have shrugged such a comment off as simply being stylistic inspiration, and that's still the most likely explanation... but nevertheless, an interesting comment in light of the WB's revelation of the Maze Builders.

Seems like a bit of "physical" scavanging going on..

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Backing up a bit, we have yet to see ice spiders. There are three sources suggesting they are real. I've tried to come up with an idea of where they came from with not much fruit. Actual giant spiders that roam the coldest climates, or are these spiders physical constructs? Possibly these spiders are now extinct. :dunno:

[Or possibly 8 legged frozen sheep as someone posed way back when]

Since most of GRRM's "monsters" (other than dragons) seem to have a real life inspiration, this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_spider_crab has been suggested as a possible canidate for our ice spiders. If true, then I am starting to believe that the White Walkers of ancient legend, may in fact be from under the sea, and I wonder if perhaps they may be the same manner of creatures that Nimble Dick named as "squishers" just given a different name.

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Since most of GRRM's "monsters" (other than dragons) seem to have a real life inspiration, this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_spider_crab has been suggested as a possible canidate for our ice spiders. If true, then I am starting to believe that the White Walkers of ancient legend, may in fact be from under the sea, and I wonder if perhaps they may be the same manner of creatures that Nimble Dick named as "squishers" just given a different name.

From the WB:

"The countless tribes and clans of the free folk remain worshippers of the old gods of the First Men and children of the forest, the gods of the weirwood trees (some accounts say that there are those who worship different gods: dark gods beneath the ground in the Frostfangs, gods of snow and ice on the Frozen Shore, or crab gods at Storrold’s Point, but such has never been reliably confirmed)."

Of course, that entire passage feels a bit like it's trolling the fan base; every once in a while I run into things in the WB that almost seem like shout-outs to fan theories, or exist purely to fuel speculation. Not that that's a bad thing!

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Since most of GRRM's "monsters" (other than dragons) seem to have a real life inspiration, this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_spider_crab has been suggested as a possible canidate for our ice spiders. If true, then I am starting to believe that the White Walkers of ancient legend, may in fact be from under the sea, and I wonder if perhaps they may be the same manner of creatures that Nimble Dick named as "squishers" just given a different name.

Nice. Something from the water crossed my mind too, including crabs, but I did not know that such a thing existed so I dismissed it. Some Others may have something to do with sea life. I can picture Others riding across frozen bays on these things. The Ironborn's drowned god comes to mind with their undead mantra, their people's origins coming from the sea, and kraken references.

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I've always taken GRRM's comment to refer not to how they appear to be human changelings, but rather to what they do and that its a pretty heavy hint of a connection to the Wall.

I don't know whether their gift or curse [or both] is "greenseer" blood but I do agree that there's something in Craster's bloodline or that of his wives/daughters is something special, and I also still maintain that at this point in time given the evidence they are the sons, and brothers and are not used to juice up something else.

Maybe Craster is descended from necromancing skinchangers. A hybrid bloodline of sorts. If we look at the ice swords and armor [their own bodies even] and GRRM'S statement about amazing things with ice, it seems possible the Others practice some type of sorcery.

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Maybe Craster is descended from necromancing skinchangers. A hybrid bloodline of sorts. If we look at the ice swords and armor [their own bodies even] and GRRM'S statement about amazing things with ice, it seems possible the Others practice some type of sorcery.

Or else someone is practicing some type of sorcery in creating the White Walkers, and their swords, and their armor.

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http://nymag.com/thecut/2014/12/style-to-expect-when-game-of-thrones-returns.html

Though, fair warning, most of the article is about...err, nipples on breastplates, with the thing about the WWs being very brief.

Thanks for that. Interesting even if it was a bit short, and I agree its intriguing. What's also a little exciting is that in the last couple of series [cgi in the Fist scene aside] we've only ever seen one walker at a time - and played by the same actor at that - in this interview she's [a] talking about the upcoming series and talking about dressing multiple walkers.

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Maybe Craster is descended from necromancing skinchangers. A hybrid bloodline of sorts. If we look at the ice swords and armor [their own bodies even] and GRRM'S statement about amazing things with ice, it seems possible the Others practice some type of sorcery.

I don't get the sense that the Others are involved in some form of sorcery.From GRRM's statement about what they can do with ice seems very much a "natural" part of them.Also,and while i'm not totally convinced about them being Craster's boys there is a deadly innocence about them.I hate to say they don't seem smart is that they don't seem or feel experianced as warriors.So i don't see them having that level of depth or know how to prectice sorcery.The COTF yeah you get the sense from Leaf that she's old,she feels experianced.IMO anyway.

No matter the difference of beliefs someone is behind them.

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I'm still up in the air on the who concerning wight walkers. I think men are the sustenance of the wight walkers and they probably had a helping hand in being what they are. I mean someone had to start the fire-counterpart.

Think about forming a sword of ice that is stronger than steel. That's a magic sword. Armor that blends with ones surroundings?

That the white walker(s) seems to know swordfighting well also says something about skill. Do these guys practice routinely? The skill level can be offset by the inhuman body ,and the sword could be similar to Valyrian steel; it gives the wielder an advantage with lightweight material.

I don't see Singers making swords and armor.

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I'm still up in the air on the who concerning wight walkers. I think men are the sustenance of the wight walkers and they probably had a helping hand in being what they are. I mean someone had to start the fire-counterpart.

Think about forming a sword of ice that is stronger than steel. That's a magic sword. Armor that blends with ones surroundings?

That the white walker(s) seems to know swordfighting well also says something about skill. Do these guys practice routinely? The skill level can be offset by the inhuman body ,and the sword could be similar to Valyrian steel; it gives the wielder an advantage with lightweight material.

I don't see Singers making swords and armor.

What about the obsidian blades they used to give to the Night's watch? It's certainly not the same as forging armor, but they still made them just the same.

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What about the obsidian blades they used to give to the Night's watch? It's certainly not the same as forging armor, but they still made them just the same.

The obsidian blades are interesting in that the much quoted business of them giving 100 each year back in the Age of Heroes obscures the fact that they were the ordinary weapons of the children and that effectively they were a stone-age culture - not necessarily primitive of course because the Aztecs who also used obsidian were technically a stone-age culture but yet incredibly sophisticated. The point being that in their everyday lives they worked no metal but did work obsidian.

Both the white walkers and their blades are quite different insofar as we're dealing with magic rather than everyday technology. There is at once a difference and yet at the same time an internal consistency in their armour. In the books Craster's boys wear some kind of magical stealth armour which makes them difficult to see. Because the show doesn't use the CGI which would in effect give us Predators the costume designer per that interview is giving us that scavenged armour. While the two are on one level obviously quite different what we're given are magically created warriors who because they are not a race or people don't have a physical technology as such. Yes, as GRRM tells us they can do clever things with ice - hence the swords and arguably the Wall - but what the show is trying to tell us in its own way is that just as GRRM has denied them a "culture" there is no Street of Steel up in the Land of Always Winter. Its all of a piece.

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How has nobody mentioned this: https://twitter.com/GRRMspeaking/status/542710215842742272 ??!!!

the 12th day is the 21st - the start of winter (winter solstice). GET HYPE

Would be impressive, and awesome. Though I still expect it might be something else, of lesser importance.

On the other hand, if he's finished the manuscript, this means another 4-5 months of rereads and editions until release in mid-2015, which had been my personal guess since late 2011 - though unless GRRM is really announcing he's done with writing and off to rewriting and editing, I'll push back my suspected release date to Dec. 2015...

Yes, as GRRM tells us they can do clever things with ice - hence the swords and arguably the Wall

Well, if The Others actually made the Wall or helped to make it - for it to be jointly manned by First Men and Others or Children, in some kind of Demilitarized Zone, until some Stark removed the Night King and pushed back Children/ Others and their human buddies North -, this could imply they have the means to take it down. They just didn't do it until now because the Others never came close to the Wall in large groups and had no intention or reason to go South before.

Would be interesting if the Horn of Joramund actually doesn't wake up Giants or bring down the Wall all by itself, but actually wakes up legions of Others or calls them up to war and to the Wall.

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Would be impressive, and awesome. Though I still expect it might be something else, of lesser importance.

On the other hand, if he's finished the manuscript, this means another 4-5 months of rereads and editions until release in mid-2015, which had been my personal guess since late 2011 - though unless GRRM is really announcing he's done with writing and off to rewriting and editing, I'll push back my suspected release date to Dec. 2015...

Personally I am convinced that it will be the announcement of the release date of TWOW. Anything else would be cruel and mean. Seriously, he cannot announce some present on the winter solstice and than not deliver TWOW. But I understand most people are afraid to get their hopes up.

He hasn't denied anything yet which is another good sign. And a release right before the new GoT season would be perfect for everybody involved. And 11 more days of increasing buzz (with no denial) is a perfect marketing strategy.

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Personally I am convinced that it will be the announcement of the release date of TWOW. Anything else would be cruel and mean. Seriously, he cannot announce some present on the winter solstice and than not deliver TWOW. But I understand most people are afraid to get their hopes up.

He hasn't denied anything yet which is another good sign. And a release right before the new GoT season would be perfect for everybody involved. And 11 more days of increasing buzz (with no denial) is a perfect marketing strategy.

Well I will certainly be keeping my fingers crossed! And praying to the old Gods, and the new... (and R'hllor, the Drowned God, and Him of Many Faces... ;) )

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