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Why do people think Theon "deserved" it?


Seaworth'sShipmate

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What Theon did to the miller's children was one of the most horrible things in the book to me, made even worse because his reason for doing it was to make himself look good. But I don't believe Theon or anyone else deserves what Ramsey did to him-I wouldn't wish it on anyone.


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The reason Theon is tragic is, he's not even being punished for his actions. He's being punished because Ramsay's a psychotic fucker who does it for fun.



Theon's biggest crime is the murder of the Miller's children. But even that only warrants a beheading, maybe a hanging, but not ongoing torture.


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I have a hard time saying he deserved this at all. Not because it's torture, either. He was already old enough to know what happened when he was taken as a ward (captive). He learned a lot from the Stark family, became a brother probably moreso than Jon was ever allowed to be. He fought alongside the Stark's when war broke out. But Robb is the one that sent him to the Iron Islands, to get them to join in and send ships to attack the coast of the Westerlands. Balon and Aeron sniffed him out immediately as a Stark, not a Greyjoy, and in desperation he acted in a way to actually win their approval and complete the goal. He just wasn't smart about it...



Winterfell? There wasn't another stronghold that he could've made a point in taking? You take what are essentially pirates and attack deeply land-locked super fortress where everyone will see you as a traitor? Bad move. I think he expected them to play along with his dog and pony show, and they didn't. His first clue should've been that his own men didn't take him seriously, why would his friends and village people? He also made his biggest mistake there, letting Reek 1.0 out of the dungeon -- everything else stems from this. Had he continued to listen to Luwin, and not to Reek... the boys would be alive, he would be free, and he would be in a different situation -- Balon would've still died, making him King/Lord of the Iron Islands.



The reality of the situation though... he tried to be too much, to too many people. And the story is better for the situation he's in, it fleshes out exactly the type of lunatics you're dealing with in the Bolton's. Deserved it? No. Made the bad choices to get him there, yeah. I know that seems contradictory (and it probably is) but what I'm driving at is he learned too late that he can be manipulated, and Ramsay does this to anyone he possibly can anyway.



TL:DR - he's just an idiot that let someone out of jail he shouldn't have.


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As far as theon goes, I'm not going to say whether or not he deserved it, but consider the following:



1) He is probably the most remorseful character in the series. Many characters have condemned various people to death for various reasons. Theon is deeply deeply troubled by the murder of these children, among other things. Because of this, I think he is the character most likely to learn from his actions from his own contemplation alone.



2) The various pressures leading up his taking of Winterfell and the killing of the kids were difficult. He lived, as he saw it, as a prisoner and was told to be grateful. When he finally got away, and went to join his family, he was basically told it's his own fault. He is deeply conflicted, and an outsider everywhere. Nobody trusts him, and the only friend was Robb who, because of those very conflictions, he as now betrayed. With his hold on the situation spiraling out of control, and a twisted person whispering into his ear, he does something deeply cruel.



3) We don't know precisely what happened with the kids. We know he killed two of his helpers, and that reek was there. But if I'm correct, the exact events where not given to us exactly.



This does not excuse his actions, but it's the reasons why he is my favorite character, so maybe I'm biased. But in short, he is no where near the worst character in the books.



Also, he is the Prince that was Promised and Azor ahai reborn.


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yeah and because of robb more than 2 children died. just think about all the smallfolk in the riverlands and westerlands.

I think there is a difference between specifically ordering children killed, and children dying in a war you're fighting that you didn't even start.

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I was reading some article some years ago, it talked about a murderer who killed a prison guard and got sent to life in solitary confinement. This dude apparently was one massive asshole when he first got sent down into the confinement, but after 20 or more years of seeing almost no human contact, no entertainment, tiny cell, no reading or writing and over 20 hours a day of no sunlight he slowly broke down into someone who was begging to redeem himself and honestly changed for the better. But he's most likely so mentally fucked up he can't even do that if he tried. In the end if you mentally/physically torture anyone they break down and turn into the opposite of what they are just so the pain stops.



So no one ever deserves to be tortured. Not even Ramsay or Gregor.


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I think there is a difference between specifically ordering children killed, and children dying in a war you're fighting that you didn't even start.

Robb cannot wash his hands of the suffering the small folk went through because he decided to secede from the seven kingdoms. For the record, I don't see how he can justify his war, after a certain point, given how there is no clear goal to be fighting in the Riverlands and Westerlands, apart from getting back at the people who he believes ordered his father killed.

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But Robb did start the war.

The war started when the Lannisters invaded the riverlands. By the time Robb even got his army below the neck Riverrun was under siege. I'm not saying Robb bringing 20,000 men south didn't escalate the conflict, but he didn't start the war.

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