LittleFinger's fate?

[CaptainTheo]

I don't think it can be out the Moon door actually because they departed the Eyrie at the end of AFFC and I have a feeling it is closed for the winter.

[Fool of a Took]

While I am a Littlefinger fan (not necessarily rooting for him to succeed, just love the character) I do agree with the thought that Sansa will ultimately be his downfall. I think she'll begin to use him and continue to do so until he is no more use to her. I think the controversial Sansa chapter is going to be her having sex with Petyr and kill him during/immediately after.

I would also like to pose a quick question, rather than completely starting a new thread if that is OK with the OP...who will last longer, Littlefinger or Varys?

[hiemal]

Sansa will kill him- probably by pushing him through the moon door, but I'm not discounting the possibility of her using a catspaw.

[mb2518]

While I am a Littlefinger fan (not necessarily rooting for him to succeed, just love the character) I do agree with the thought that Sansa will ultimately be his downfall. I think she'll begin to use him and continue to do so until he is no more use to her. I think the controversial Sansa chapter is going to be her having sex with Petyr and kill him during/immediately after.

I would also like to pose a quick question, rather than completely starting a new thread if that is OK with the OP...who will last longer, Littlefinger or Varys?

I'd reckon Varys is safe through the next book.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I don't think it can be out the Moon door actually because they departed the Eyrie at the end of AFFC and I have a feeling it is closed for the winter.

Yep

I think his fate, weirdly enough, is tied with Davos'

If he succeeds in bringing Rickon, then I don't really see LF lasting much longer, since his plan to claim WF would be screwed. In that case I think Sansa will play some role in his downfall and he'll die sooner than expected

But, if the Rickon thing turns out to be a Shaggydog Story and the Boltons win, I can see LF making a move on the North, only to be the "giant" Sansa slays in the castle of ice (Winterfell)

[Petyr's Little Finger]

Unfortunately it does seem like LF will not survive the series. A pity, he would have been the man to, at the very least destroy Westerosi feudalism.

I think Tyrion and Sansa will be involved in LF's downfall. LF framed Tyrion twice ( The Purple Wedding and the dagger) and tried to kill him (I think it was LF who gave the order to Mandon Moore to kill Tyrion) LF's failure to destroy Tyrion will come back to bite him. Sansa's story arc is entwined with LF's so his death will have something to with her. I'm not fully convinced Sansa will actually kill him though.

[Mikkel]

Unfortunately it does seem like LF will not survive the series. A pity, he would have been the man to, at the very least destroy Westerosi feudalism.

You're not the first person to suggest that, but I don't understand why people think so.

LF is a nobleman, quite content to exploit and use the system to get him whatever he wants. It's true he doesn't care much for the other nobles, but he doesn't give a shit about smallfolk either. And no, despite popular claims to the contrary he is neither a self-made man nor interested in anything but himself. He started out with advantages that 99,99% of the population don't have, things he got through nothing but birth and his father's friendship with Hoster Tully.

LF is using and abusing feudalism, but he has never shown the slightest inkling towards abolishing the system - he just wants to be on top. He's about as much of a social reformer as Cersei is a feminist.

[Petyr's Little Finger]

You're not the first person to suggest that, but I don't understand why people think so.

LF is a nobleman, quite content to exploit and use the system to get him whatever he wants. It's true he doesn't care much for the other nobles, but he doesn't give a shit about smallfolk either. And no, despite popular claims to the contrary he is neither a self-made man nor interested in anything but himself. He started out with advantages that 99,99% of the population don't have, things he got through nothing but birth and his father's friendship with Hoster Tully.

LF is using and abusing feudalism, but he has never shown the slightest inkling towards abolishing the system - he just wants to be on top. He's about as much of a social reformer as Cersei is a feminist.

I agree that LF is where he is due to his noble blood and that he isnt exactly a self made man. I don't think LF cares about the smallfolk one bit either. He hates the status quo in Westeros because he was denied Catelyn's hand due to him being seen as too "lowborn" for any Tully daughter. I think if given the chance he will destroy feudalism, not out of concern for the smallfolk but because of his own prejudices against that system.

[jet199]

I think Littlefinger will survive until the last book. I think the giant doll foreshadowing is pretty much literal and Sansa will have his head chopped of and put on a spike on the wall of Winterfell. This means they will be going north eventually, probably to stake their claim. I think Sansa will find out he was involved in Ned's death and give LF the same treatment Ned got.

[Mikkel]

I agree that LF is where he is due to his noble blood and that he isnt exactly a self made man. I don't think LF cares about the smallfolk one bit either. He hates the status quo in Westeros because he was denied Catelyn's hand due to him being seen as too "lowborn" for any Tully daughter. I think if given the chance he will destroy feudalism, not out of concern for the smallfolk but because of his own prejudices against that system.

I disagree, I don't think LF is going to lift a, well, finger to destroy feudalism - he's simply using it to get what he wants (power, and presumably Sansa if he can get his grubby hands on her).

Sure he resents the system to some degree, but his hate has spilled over onto the persons who denied him (all of whom are now dead), and to humanity in general. Anybody with a shred of compassion would not be able to do what he did to Jeyne Poole, and he did it for no other reason than he could. Until much later, she has no political value whatsoever, and yet LF cheerfully destroys her life, without a second thought.

That's not the acts of a man interested in changing the system, that's a man who places no value on human life, and will do whatever it takes to accomplish his goals. Abolishing feudalism is not his goal, and it's not something that happens accidentally as a by-product. Even the "king of the ashes" scenario is telling: King of the ashes, it would only be a matter of time before a new aristocracy was in place.

[Biter the Gallant]

I agree that LF is where he is due to his noble blood and that he isnt exactly a self made man. I don't think LF cares about the smallfolk one bit either. He hates the status quo in Westeros because he was denied Catelyn's hand due to him being seen as too "lowborn" for any Tully daughter. I think if given the chance he will destroy feudalism, not out of concern for the smallfolk but because of his own prejudices against that system.

Littlefinger definitely hates the aristocracy as a whole and enjoys manipulating and destroying them, but I do not really think he has any real problem with oppression in general or the feudal system itself. After all, the guy is running a system of brothels -and prostitution in Westeros is a cruel and brutal opressive business, just as in the real world (whitewashing it a bit with fake eroticism is one of the TV show's main faults in my eyes). And LF is also selfish - he hates the aristocrats because his _own_ hurted feelings. So i do not think he would try to destroy the system. However he might be a good or at least effective ruler, in his own way.

[Mithras]

He will try to rape Sansa and she will stab him.

[Petyr's Little Finger]

I disagree, I don't think LF is going to lift a, well, finger to destroy feudalism - he's simply using it to get what he wants (power, and presumably Sansa if he can get his grubby hands on her).

Sure he resents the system to some degree, but his hate has spilled over onto the persons who denied him (all of whom are now dead), and to humanity in general. Anybody with a shred of compassion would not be able to do what he did to Jeyne Poole, and he did it for no other reason than he could. Until much later, she has no political value whatsoever, and yet LF cheerfully destroys her life, without a second thought.

That's not the acts of a man interested in changing the system, that's a man who places no value on human life, and will do whatever it takes to accomplish his goals. Abolishing feudalism is not his goal, and it's not something that happens accidentally as a by-product. Even the "king of the ashes" scenario is telling: King of the ashes, it would only be a matter of time before a new aristocracy was in place.

LF will use the feudal system to get what he wants, but at the same time LF has no qualms about destroying something or someone after it is of no use to him. He needed the Vale so he wed Lysa, but he had no qualms about killing her. LF will continue to use the feudal system to get what he wants, but if he ever becomes the King of Westeros and has everything, I think he will destroy the feudal system simply to nurse his injured pride after being denied Catelyn's hand.

[Mikkel]

LF will use the feudal system to get what he wants, but at the same time LF has no qualms about destroying something or someone after it is of no use to him. He needed the Vale so he wed Lysa, but he had no qualms about killing her. LF will continue to use the feudal system to get what he wants, but if he ever becomes the King of Westeros and has everything, I think he will destroy the feudal system simply to nurse his injured pride after being denied Catelyn's hand.

What.. I don't even... he becomes King, but abolishes feudalism.. how does that even work?

[Roose on the Loose]

5 seconds after the last Sansa chapter eds, the Mad Mouse and company break in, kill LF and drag Sansa back to KL.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

Yep

I think his fate, weirdly enough, is tied with Davos'

If he succeeds in bringing Rickon, then I don't really see LF lasting much longer, since his plan to claim WF would be screwed. In that case I think Sansa will play some role in his downfall and he'll die sooner than expected

But, if the Rickon thing turns out to be a Shaggydog Story and the Boltons win, I can see LF making a move on the North, only to be the "giant" Sansa slays in the castle of ice (Winterfell)

I really think Rickon will simply die of a winter fever in TWOW. I think his is indeed a Shaggy Dog Story. I can really see Davos finding him, his story arc beginning to build with Manderly and Stannis and then...he just simply succumbs to illness like so many young children.

At which point I absolutely see LF going North with Sansa with a play for Winterfell, succeeding with the gratitude and backing of many northern Lords and then, she simply has him beheaded, or my personal favourite theory is she has him bought into the throne room, sitting her fathers chair, lists his crimes and then has him taken out to the courtyard where she swings the sword herself and simply orders his head mounted on the gate house.

I definitely think she is the one to bring him down.

[UtherSnow]

Littlefinger will prove whether or not he's a piece or a player, and inevitably bring about his own downfall. He thinks he is one but will be shown to be the other. Even the best players can become pieces because they think they know how the game is played.

I don't think Varys will be the one who reveals he's been playing LF, even if he is. I think this will be either Cersei or Sansa.

In Sansa's case, it will prove something LF never expected but ought to have known.

Somehow, I feel Bran has a part to play in awakening something no one has seen in Sansa. Think this through. She had Lady taken from her, by her father. Does that mean she can't develop her warg abilities?

Bran is the most powerful warg of all the Stark Children. I think we have a definite clue here that Jon Snow does have Stark blood in him, which points directly to his mother being Lyanna.

Consider that carefully. How else can Jon have the ability to warg? Who else is a Snow and shows the ability to warg? There is no one. Therefore, Jon's lineage is from House Stark, through his mother, who must be Lyanna. We know Ned isn't Jon's blood-father, so it can't be from him.

What other explanation can there be?

So, back to Littlefinger..... When his end comes, it's going to be out of the blue, quite literally. Death by Mockingbird would be too poetic, and a bit silly.

Hmmm? A thought. Does GRRM like movies? I think he's proven so in Santa Fe. What chance a showing of 'To Kill A Mockingbird' at some point? Maybe coinciding with a release of a book?

Isn't that a courtroom drama? Finch? Isn't a finch a songbird? Isn't a finch predominantly northern as well?

Back to Sansa.... How does The Hound describe her? 'A pretty little talking bird....' She evens says, 'The Hound is right. I am only a little bird'. She also gave The Hound a song. (Is this a nod to Tolkien too?)

Perhaps it plays out that Sansa is the little bird singing for LF, and her song is the song of a siren? Luring.... No, I don't think so. Her song may be a distraction for LF, a lure in that way.

Let's go with a falcon swooping down at LF. How about Sansa warging into that, with help from Bran? While LF attempts to fend off this attack, he steps back, steps back and.... Petyr Baelish will recall his own words to Sansa, never thinking they'd come back at him.

Life is not a song, sweetling. Someday you may learn that, to your sorrow.

Additional thought.... The falcon could well be The Houses Of The Vale bringing LF to court, to face justice.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

I think it is likely Sansa will indeed develop her Warging skills, I think it likely that now that she is in the Vale she will once again take up Hawking, just as she enjoyed in KL. There she chose a Merlin, which is the Smallest bird of Prey in Europe, or a "Little Bird" if you like. Maybe once again she will chose the Merlin?

Its just conjecture though that she may take up Hawking now she is in the Vale, though she certainly enjoyed it in KL, and she is now on the ground and has friends whom she may like to go and spend time with in such a popular leisure activity, which hawking is in the Vale.

I think a close bond with an animal must be necessaries for a warg to successfully take on a creature, and working with a bird of prey would indeed build such a bond.

As to Bran, well. We know sansa has become quite devout in her worship of the Old Gods, she laments the lack of a Weirwood in the Eyrie's "Godswood" and I think it very likely that now she is on the ground she will visit the Godswood, where there will be a heart tree and where Bran can communicate with her. I think Bran is currently attempting to contact all his remaining siblings.

including that adopted one, Theon. We know this from the sample chapter, with the Ravens, and him hearing his name during fArya & ramsey's wedding in ADWD. Also in Arya's sample chapter from TWOW, she awakes from a dream, it is a wolf dream and she dreams of being in a dark dense forrest with tall pines, and a tree with Eyes watches her as she runs with her pack. Also she recalls her name of Mercy but mentions that in her dreams she is called by another name. I think this implies Bran is calling to her through the heart trees as she dreams in Nymeria, calling her back to him. I think Nymeria and her pack are headed North, by the Dark, Dense Pine forest. Which she describes.

So yes, I think TWOW will see sansa going to the Godswood and Bran attempting to communicate with her there. And I think she will go Hawking with Randa and build a bond with a Merlin.

Now this could be how she learns the truth of LF, things her bird see's & hears and things he slips up by telling her himself, we know he does this and that she picks up on his true motives so the Combination I think could give her the knowledge she needs to decide he is guilty. Couples perhaps with a reveal when they arrive at Winterfell about Jeyne pooles fate.

[Genghis Khal]

Well I agree with you on most parts UtherSnow, and yes Jon's warg abilities make me think the R+L theory has even more "proof". But I think northmen in general have a slight chance to warg, a bit less than wildlings but they do share the same blood. So it's logical what you claim, but there also is a small chance it has nothing to do with being a Stark, more to do with being a First Men descendant.

@The Weirwoods Eyes You forget he is a northern child. If he is not dead on Skagos when Davos gets there, I doubt he will die from some illness. But to tell you the truth I don't know how I feel about Rickon. I know so little about him, I do not really think he will be a power player. The most I can see him doing is helping Sansa claim the North, coming from Skagos with a host of cannibals to maybe put an end to Ramsay or his father ( I would think it appropriate that Ramsay should die at the hands of the only people in the North more feared than the Boltons and suspected cannibals).

As for LF he will outstretch himself in my opinion and I think Tyrion and Sansa will have a hand in his downfall, if Tyrion ever gets back. I think Varys will help in this but then Tyrion will somehow screw Varys as well.

And regarding above posts about Bran, I truly believe he will be the unknown hero, a legend in the North maybe but nothing but fairy-tales for the southron. I do not think he will have anything to do with LF's downfall, beyond a few tips and info for Sansa/Jon. I see him more in the "supernatural sphere" with the Others, wargs, CoF, maybe NW, and not at all in the political sphere.

[Hermione]

I think he will die because Sansa will decide not to save him. I don't have anything to support this particular theory, just something that I feel would be a nice thing to happen.

Maybe he gets arrested for one of another of his crime (or maybe even for something he didn't actually do) and is tried, and calls upon Sansa to provide the judges with exculpating information but she, having learnt what he did to her family, decides not to give that information (whether it would be true or she'd be making something up to save him, I can't decide.) And then he gets a very "mundane" (for Westeros standards) death by axe. Nothing glorious, nothing extraordinary, just a disappointingly bog-standard end of his life. How he'd hate that.

ETA: I mean Littlefinger of course, not Bran. I guess with the post immediately before mine, my going for pronouns instead of actual names could be confusing.