[SPOILERS] We Need To Talk About Tyrion: How HBO Failed George R. R. Martin’s Iconic Character

[midi]

The problem is that Tyrion's final moments in S4 didn't make sense. Why would he go to his father's chambers? If he wanted revenge on anyone, wouldn't it be Cersei? He needed Jaime's story about Tysha to enrage him.

Another rediculous thing, how did he know that those stairs took him from the dungeon to his father? Varys wasn't with him to tell him like he was in the book.

Remember that The Kingsguard are guarding the royal family around the clock unless they are specifically dismissed. Even if he wanted revenge on Cersei it would have been impossible for him at that particular moment.

About the other thing, frankly I thought it was bonkers in the book that only Varys knew about the passages. That makes no sense, Tyrion was Hand of the King for quite a while. How in the seven hells would he NOT inspect the passageways starting from below his quarters. I always found this very odd. Tywin would have known too. All that's required is to say "Bronn! Go to the Black Cells and find these secret tunnels we know are there. They are a security risk."

So in my opinion it makes perfect sense that Tyrion knew how to get to his former quarters. Makes no sense that he needed Varys to guide him in the book.

[ADanceWithCats]

Yegods.

The problem is that Tyrion's final moments in S4 didn't make sense. Why would he go to his father's chambers? If he wanted revenge on anyone, wouldn't it be Cersei? He needed Jaime's story about Tysha to enrage him.

He went to Tywin's chambers because ultimately, it was Tywin who had humiliated him over the years, who had constantly refused to grant him his rights, his love and his attention. It was Tywin who, as a judge, as the Hand, and as, plainly, Tywin, had had the final word in the trial and it was Tywin who could have easily done away with all that circus with -- a word; and refused to, and instead forced it to go on, and on. There were plenty of reasons for Tyrion to snap.

Another rediculous thing, how did he know that those stairs took him from the dungeon to his father? Varys wasn't with him to tell him like he was in the book.

That's a tactical realism complaint, and really deserves nothing better than 'it's a work of fiction' as a response. Or possibly 'good 3D orientation skills'.

Also, Tyrion kills Shae in the show because she was about to kill him. So why does he care if Tywin calls her a whore?

Because, in the show, he loved her. They were both in a shitty situation, Shae and he. But that there was no good way out of it didn't mean that he would let Tywin, who, again, was the cause of the shitty situation happening at all, get away with feeling superior to, and humiliating, his victim.

I hated the whole sequence

Well, again, that's the heart of the issue, obviously - emotionally motivated thinking. But, as always, that's perfectly your right. People hate change, that's normal.

[FreeParking]

Remember that The Kingsguard are guarding the royal family around the clock unless they are specifically dismissed. Even if he wanted revenge on Cersei it would have been impossible for him at that particular moment.

About the other thing, frankly I thought it was bonkers in the book that only Varys knew about the passages. That makes no sense, Tyrion was Hand of the King for quite a while. How in the seven hells would he NOT inspect the passageways starting from below his quarters. I always found this very odd. Tywin would have known too. All that's required is to say "Bronn! Go to the Black Cells and find these secret tunnels we know are there. They are a security risk."

So in my opinion it makes perfect sense that Tyrion knew how to get to his former quarters. Makes no sense that he needed Varys to guide him in the book.

Tyrion was also given the map of the tunnels under King's Landing by Varys right before the Battle of the Blackwater.

[Woman of War]

I'm fine if the show wants to make changes. It can be entertaining without sticking to the books word for word.

The problem is that Tyrion's final moments in S4 didn't make sense. Why would he go to his father's chambers? If he wanted revenge on anyone, wouldn't it be Cersei? He needed Jaime's story about Tysha to enrage him.

Also, Tyrion kills Shae in the show because she was about to kill him. So why does he care if Tywin calls her a whore?

I hated the whole sequence, something that could have been so much more, even if they didn't stick to the book word for word.

I think that Tyrion was entirely justified in confronting his father first of all. This was that most complex relationship where the father had loomed as doom over Tyrion all his lifetime and then condemned him to death for a crime he had not committed. No it seemed perfectly logical that Tyrion intended to exorcise his father's ghost.

And, yes, Tyrion killed the woman he loved. And the enormity of that catastrophe makes him protective of her memory.

I see a big difference in the situation Tyrion is now in through his goodbye with Jaime: not betrayed even by his beloved brother, not utterly alone emotionally, not completely without hope. Will there be that intense road through darkness?

There is no code of proper conduct for someone who has just killed his father and his lover. If Tyrion were not totally shattered he'd be a psychopath. Call it mopey or whiny or whatever. But being emotionally untouched would be the perverse thing here, not pathetic behaviour.

[Hour of the Wolf]

Now, if only they put as much thought into that scene as you guys have done defending it.

[shadow282]

Now, if only they put as much thought into that scene as you guys have done defending it.

They did. They did an excellent job in getting Tyrion to exactly the same emotional place while not mentioning Tysha.

[Woman of War]

They did. They did an excellent job in getting Tyrion to exactly the same emotional place while not mentioning Tysha.

Yes, concerning the lost love he had a part in destroying. He won't look for Shae, she is dead. f there is any longing for Tysha we will see. But it would not have the same impact, not the Holy Grail, the end being nothing, the quest everything. We can assume that there will be no real Tysha in the end. And if there were the story would be less heartbreaking and more happy ending prone since HBO Tyrion never "went last". Too cooled down.

But it is the falling apart with Jaime and its impact that bothers me.

Is it unimportant for future events because Jaime is as good as dead? Where are Tyrion's total despair and loneliness now?

I love this character, I admire the actor, I want Dinklage to play everything.

[Beric175]

they did what they had to do to keep people invested in the show. part of what made the show so popular was pter Dinklage portraying Tyrion as one of the last few sympathetic characters and since many book readers aren't that into his journey after killing Tywin (if I never hear the words 'where do whores go' ever again it'll be too soon) it makes sense to soften him instead of making him a nihilistic misogynist.

[shadow282]

But it is the falling apart with Jaime and its impact that bothers me.

Is it unimportant for future events because Jaime is as good as dead? Where are Tyrion's total despair and loneliness now?

I love this character, I admire the actor, I want Dinklage to play everything.

Well, he has plenty of despair and loneliness. He killed the woman he loved, and now he's going to be hunted across the world by his own family. He lost his wealth, which is a huge part of how he dealt with his life. As far as he knows he'll never see Jaime or his home again. Plenty of despair and loneliness to go around.

And we'll have to wait and see about the Jaime thing. It may be important in later books, but that's just a pure guess. The scene should be judged by what we know so far, not on what may eventually possibly happen. And from what we know now, it's functionally the same thing.

[Aemond's Eye]

Tyrion's portrayal was kinder, I'm assuming they wanted to make him more sympathetic to the audience since he probably is the main antagonist of the series at this point. I never did like the show's portrayal of Shae at all. Instead of a sensual and devious consort completely playing Tyrion, she's transformed into a spiteful, jealous emo with no understanding of how the world works. Whereas Tyrion was just blind to Shae's ways in the book out of the desperate desire to love and be loved, in the show he's having to deal with her jealous temper all the time despite the terms their relationship started off on, and Tyrion just seemed to be cutting loose those strings.

I kind of did like Jaime and Tyrion having a heartfelt farewell, but I'm not sure that was an improvement over Tyrion's savage words in the book. Those seemed to really cause Jaime to reexamine his relationship with Cersei more than any other thing.

I never read her as a "sensual and devious consort completely playing Tyrion" - Tyrion played himself by buying into the illusion he'd "hired" her to play. She repeatedly reminded him that she was his whore, and instead he bought into the girlfriend fantasy he'd created and stopped paging her as promised.

Tyrion is delusional when it comes to women.