King Jon Targaryen I Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 This has to do with people that seem to have a issue with Rhaegar and people blaming him for Robert's Rebellion. I don't understand this because how in the hell would we have know King Aerys II would have done what he did? Aerys the Mad King was the problem not his son himself which to me seems very unfair to place blame on him specifically. Rhaegar wasn't perfect and no I am not those people that think " Rhaegar will do no wrong" but I don't think he is the biggest blame of everything. We don't even know why he left with Lyanna in the first place and the situation with that whole event in full detail, all we know is that Rhaegar kidnapped lyanna stark and brandon wanted to get his sister back but had to deal with Aerys and that didn't go well. One thing for sure was that Rhaegar was going to deal with his father eventually but didn't have a chance to do so because of his death at the trident. Rhaegar already knew like the rest of the realm King Aerys had to go. Also Tyrion comment saying his father is lucky Rhaegar was dead must have meant that Rhaegar had a mind for strategy and politics but anyway, I just want to hear the communities thoughts on this cause if Robert really cared about Lyanna he would not have made himself King and would have fought for her alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Rhaegar's mostly blanks that people can fill in as desired. The fact that he ticks every box in a reductionist's dream leans a lot of people the other way when filling in, especially given that the books normally reject romantic heroes as he otherwise seems to be. I personally think he'll be the exception, but I can get why many don't want that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 His actions are a complete mystery, then in the end House Targaryen fell. Ergo, it's all blamed on him and minds are made up way too prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Its because no matter how you look at it, Rhaegar and Lyanna both should have known better. Even if Aerys hadn't murdered the Starks a war almost certainly would have happened. He ran off with Robert's fiancee in pursuit of another woman. The only possible excuse is that Rhaegar thought he was saving the world, and even then he's still very incompetent with how he handled things.Personally I think Rhaegar was every bit as mad as Aerys, he was just charming and better at hiding. Look at Ted Bundy, the charming sociopath is a very real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Also let's say Rhargar wins at the trident. All the rebels are murdered and another war is started to depose Aerys. How is that leaving anyone better off?Rhaegar should have fixed the realm instead of gambling on prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawhead Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I don't hate him, I just don't think he fits into the series as a "Romantic, beautiful hero that could do no wrong and who was the son of prophesy whose love for Lyanna was as pure as morning snow". Someone other than Robert should see him as a delusional, prancing ass that kidnapped a woman and got his entire family killed for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 This has to do with people that seem to have a issue with Rhaegar and people blaming him for Robert's Rebellion. I don't understand this because how in the hell would we have know King Aerys II would have done what he did? Aerys the Mad King was the problem not his son himself which to me seems very unfair to place blame on him specifically. Rhaegar wasn't perfect and no I am not those people that think " Rhaegar will do no wrong" but I don't think he is the biggest blame of everything. We don't even know why he left with Lyanna in the first place and the situation with that whole event in full detail, all we know is that Rhaegar kidnapped lyanna stark and brandon wanted to get his sister back but had to deal with Aerys and that didn't go well. One thing for sure was that Rhaegar was going to deal with his father eventually but didn't have a chance to do so because of his death at the trident. Rhaegar already knew like the rest of the realm King Aerys had to go. Also Tyrion comment saying his father is lucky Rhaegar was dead must have meant that Rhaegar had a mind for strategy and politics but anyway, I just want to hear the communities thoughts on this cause if Robert really cared about Lyanna he would not have made himself King and would have fought for her alone. Well mostly, coming from a proud Rhaegar frowner, I just don't really get how he couldn't see all this coming, Robert was the reincarnation of a guy who declared war for the lost of his DAUGHTER's Betroth, not even himself. His family history is made almost completely of half sibling and kids wars. Aerys was a crazy SOB, trusting him to clean up was a bad idea, a speially when he already say at HH both Brandon and Robert were pissed about flowers being given to Lyanna. Rhaegar was alraedy plotting to remove him, that was hightlighted, but it seems he completely sideline that to get Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Walton Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 From the small amount we know about him, he seems like a good person who would have made a good king.But until it's confirmed otherwise, he kidnapped a young girl (I know, chances are she went willingly) so that goes against him.Really would like a prologue or epilogue Pov from Rhaegar, to fill in the gaps.I'm a Robert fan, he definitely, in his own way loved Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raving Stark the Mad Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I don't understand this because how in the hell would we have know King Aerys II would have done what he did? So he had no idea what Robert, or Brandon, or the Dornish, were going to handle him running off with Lyanna either? You're telling me he's an idiot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I guess because he betrayed his wife and children and ran off with another woman? That's sleazy, not romantic. That bit of sleaze went beyond TMZ and started a civil war. People died, KL nearly burned down, Rhaegar's children and wife died, etc. etc. It's like...dude. I don't find Jon's parentage romantic in the extreme. Here's to hoping he's Ned's kid with a nice prostitute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawhead Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I guess because he betrayed his wife and children and ran off with another woman? That's sleazy, not romantic. That bit of sleaze went beyond TMZ and started a civil war. People died, KL nearly burned down, Rhaegar's children and wife died, etc. etc. It's like...dude. I don't find Jon's parentage romantic in the extreme. Here's to hoping he's Ned's kid with a nice prostitute. Yeah, I also hope that Jon is just Ned's bastard get on a fishwife or a milkmaid. It would really make me appreciate his character much more than if he's (what some people suspect) a secret Targ and a dragon rider who is also Fire Jesus that singlehandedly fights off the Others and then marries Dany, fathers 10 children and rules for 1000 years after taking over the entire planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimim Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Yeah, I also hope that Jon is just Ned's bastard get on a fishwife or a milkmaid. It would really make me appreciate his character much more than if he's (what some people suspect) a secret Targ and a dragon rider who is also Fire Jesus that singlehandedly fights off the Others and then marries Dany, fathers 10 children and rules for 1000 years after taking over the entire planet. Martin's chance to subvert a trope with a vengeance! Jon was Ned's son, after all. I'd cry a little bit :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 One thing for sure was that Rhaegar was going to deal with his father eventually but didn't have a chance to do so because of his death at the trident. No. Just no. Rhaegar didn't sadly miss his chance to deal with his father because of his death at the Trident, he actively sabotaged his chance by starting a conspiracy against Aerys, heightening Aerys' suspicions to the mab by crowning Lyanna, and then disappeared with her, leaving his conspiracy half in the making and everyone else to pay the price, his family included while he hid away honeymooning and prophecy-helping. That's without going into what we know of the Baratheon MO in similar situations from TWOIAF. And his actions at his return pointed at anything but a caring husband and father, what with being perfectly happy to leave his wife and children in the hands of the Mad King to guarantee Dorne's spears or Aerys' peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Civility Reigns Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I, personally, subscribe to the idea that Rhaegar was one of the good ones. Too much gray all the time is boring. The thought of Rhaegar being at fault for the Rebellion fills my heart with a raging indifference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 No. Just no. Rhaegar didn't sadly miss his chance to deal with his father because of his death at the Trident, he actively sabotaged his chance by starting a conspiracy against Aerys, heightening Aerys' suspicions to the mab by crowning Lyanna, and then disappeared with her, leaving his conspiracy half in the making and everyone else to pay the price, his family included while he hid away honeymooning and prophecy-helping. That's without going into what we know of the Baratheon MO in similar situations from TWOIAF. And his actions at his return pointed at anything but a caring husband and father, what with being perfectly happy to leave his wife and children in the hands of the Mad King to guarantee Dorne's spears or Aerys' peace of mind.Wait.He should have dealt with his father without starting a conspiracy?How does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 The hate comes not because of the character himself but rather because he has probably the most annoying set of fanboys on these boards, who simply refuse to acknowledge ANYTHING he might have done wrong and blame everything on other characters, because Rhaegar is the Perfect Silver Prince that can do no wrong and is basically a Gary Stu. I've seen people here even blaming the war on Jon Arryn for refusing to deliver Robert and Ned's heads (since blaming Aerys you have to blame Rhaegar for abandoning the mess of a situation in his father's hands and not acting sooner against him, they shift the blame to someone else instead). Basically, the MO of this set of fans is if something on the text might make Rhaegar look good, even indirectly, then it's undeniable proof he was awesome; if something on the text says he wasn't so good or it can be logically inferred from it, then we either don't have all the facts or someone else is to blame. And thus almost any discussion regarding Rhaegar on these boards is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Jon Targaryen I Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 Mad King Aerys was already paranoid ever since the Duskendale incident, thank Tywin for that one. Also why the fuck would Lyanna and Rhaegar should know better, really? Brandon actions going to kings landing was stupid and brash that even Hoster Tully thought it was a stupid idea. There are other factors at play here, what about Varys planting the paranoia in Aerys mind has a factor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pem123 Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 he started the whole dammed thing, if he hadn't kidnapped lyanna, maybe Aers would die soon anyway. and if what every man say he is, he would good king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winterfell is Burning Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Mad King Aerys was already paranoid ever since the Duskendale incident, thank Tywin for that one. Also why the fuck would Lyanna and Rhaegar should know better, really? Brandon actions going to kings landing was stupid and brash that even Hoster Tully thought it was a stupid idea. There are other factors at play here, what about Varys planting the paranoia in Aerys mind has a factor? Yes, Brandon's actions were stupid and brash, but he was stupid and brash and both Rhaegar and Lyanna knew it. Also, why are you talking about Hoster Tully like he had Hodor's intelligence or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anath Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Wait.He should have dealt with his father without starting a conspiracy?How does that work?He should have finished his conspiracy before going after his prophecy. The other way around was clearly impossible since he had started conspiring and getting Aerys suspicious well before he decided that the prophecy needed the help of his nether regions. One thing at a time was a very reasonable way of action. Get rid of Aerys now, start getting prophetical later. Of course, doing it one thing at a time might bring the danger that Lyanna would be already married to Robert by then and then the prophecy might not come true for Rhaegar. Not a great tragedy for the world - it would just mean that Rhaegar's children weren't the three heads of the dragon. There would be three others. But it would be a great tragedy for Rhaegar's nether regions. He might not have believed in the prophecy so much, after all, if he needed to force it into working for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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