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Why Crasters sons?


Shane snow

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Of all the wildling babies that are born , why do we only hear of Crasters being taken? Shouldn't everyone do the same thing to protect themselves? I kno in the show it shows NK turning Crasters son into an other.. Why wouldn't they just do that to everyone if they have that power?

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Maybe most free folk are normal people and love their children. Who gives up a child to protect himself?



We hear stories of free folk being taken, some of them are probably children. What happens after that, do they all just get turned into wights or is there something more to it, we don't know.



As to the show, I was disappointed by that episode. An ice troll took a baby and froze his brains with a finger. It felt cheap, they should've just kept it a mystery.



But I think in principle, they could be close.



I remember reading tales about marsh fairies when I was a kid. Those were beautiful, creepy beings who would show up at night. They would take babies and raise them as their own. In some cases they would kill a child, especially older children, and it would be done in a very gory way.



I could see the Others being sort of like those fairies too. Raise babies as your own and let them become like you over time. Kill everyone who's too old / not receptive and can't be assimilated, make mindless wights out of them.



I don't know if they have a magical power to just poof, transform someone into an Other during a ritual like in the show. To me it would feel pretty cheap. And yes, in that case it wouldn't make much sense why they keep making so many wights instead of just making Others.



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The whole Craster's kids turned into others thing is strictly a show storyline. Maybe the books will have the same plot point but until that happens there's no reason to think that's what happened to them.



I doubt the books will touch on what happened to Craster's sons since it would be difficult for a POV to find out. That being said, the POV structure is also responsible for why we only hear about Crasters kids being "sacrificed." Kids being left in the woods to die probably isn't that unusual of an occurrence North of the Wall.


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Because it's show BS.

Not happening in the books. Craster is just an asshole weeding out anybody he perceives as a possible future threat.

True, before the show's reveal of Craster's offering and the "Night's King", I never once thought Craster's sons were others, i just thought he purposefully let them die to be ensured of his place.

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So u think that's not what the others do with them in the books?

The only evidence in the books is that one of Craster's wives thinks so.

The thing is, if it were true, there is no way in hell she would know. Craster's wives are mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed bullshit. Craster tells them he has a deal with the Old Cold Gods and sacrifices the boy babies because its a way of keeping the wives compliant with what he does to prevent any boy growing up to replace him. He goes out alone into the woods with the babies. The wives have almost certainly seen Others occasionally from a distance, but no way they have been involved personally in any 'dealings' - Craster just wouldn't allow them that much knowledge or understanding.

There isn't actually any such pact, from the Other's side, because we know that sheep are used in place of boys when there is no baby, and it still seems to work. But there is no way that the Others are happy with sheep if they are expecting baby boys to turn into more Others.

So what we have is Craster sacrificing the boys, the Others occasionally being around at the same, the Others not bothering Craster for a while (his Keep is much further south than their early depredations) and Craster using that as something to help keep his wives in line. The wives in turn believe and possible embroider the fantasy he 'sells' them because its a much better thing for them psychologically - better to think that their babies become gods, or servants of gods than to accept that they are murdering their own babies to keep themselves safe.

However most readers here love the idea that Craster's wives somehow know all about the inner workings of the Others and give us an accurate picture of the truth rather than simply stating untrue beliefs that they have.

Never mind any of the actual physical evidence, a random person's belief must be inherently true if it suits the reader.

There is an astonishingly widespread refusal to examine the data we have critically around this subject.

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The only evidence in the books is that one of Craster's wives thinks so.

The thing is, if it were true, there is no way in hell she would know. Craster's wives are mushrooms - kept in the dark and fed bullshit. Craster tells them he has a deal with the Old Cold Gods and sacrifices the boy babies because its a way of keeping the wives compliant with what he does to prevent any boy growing up to replace him. He goes out alone into the woods with the babies. The wives have almost certainly seen Others occasionally from a distance, but no way they have been involved personally in any 'dealings' - Craster just wouldn't allow them that much knowledge or understanding.

There isn't actually any such pact, from the Other's side, because we know that sheep are used in place of boys when there is no baby, and it still seems to work. But there is no way that the Others are happy with sheep if they are expecting baby boys to turn into more Others.

So what we have is Craster sacrificing the boys, the Others occasionally being around at the same, the Others not bothering Craster for a while (his Keep is much further south than their early depredations) and Craster using that as something to help keep his wives in line. The wives in turn believe and possible embroider the fantasy he 'sells' them because its a much better thing for them psychologically - better to think that their babies become gods, or servants of gods than to accept that they are murdering their own babies to keep themselves safe.

However most readers here love the idea that Craster's wives somehow know all about the inner workings of the Others and give us an accurate picture of the truth rather than simply stating untrue beliefs that they have.

Never mind any of the actual physical evidence, a random person's belief must be inherently true if it suits the reader.

There is an astonishingly widespread refusal to examine the data we have critically around this subject.

:agree:

:bowdown:

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Other people used to.

When the Others controlled the Wall, northerners at least would regularly offer their babies, especially bastards and deformed, "down the well" in the Nightfort.

When did the others control the wall?

Also does anyone have the quote of Craster's wife calling the others his children?

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The part where Sam kills an other, Gilly refers the others as "her baby's brothers"

I don't know about you, but it seemed to me Gilly was pretty convinced of what she was saying.

So what? What can she base that upon?

Gilly doesn't know jack shit. She is an uneducated young girl raised in slavery by her sadistic father and her equally abused mother/aunts/sisters/grandmothers/nieces/cousins.

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Likely the babies were taken by wolves or shadowcats or whatever other animals like to feed on easy prey. Especially for all the years Craster was sacrificing babes before the Others were active.

It's not even remarkable that Craster's place was not taken by the Others. The other villages near the Wall were abandoned because the people went to Mance's summons, not because the Others destroyed them.

The threat of the Others was only just ramping up at the time of the great ranging. It was barely autumn. They have not been out in force against the wildings - that they attacked the Fist likely had something to do with the opportunity to attack NW men whilst they were not protected by the Wall (especially if the NW oaths are magically linked to the Wall). Perhaps the Others had just not gotten round to destroying Craster's before the mutineers did the job.

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It's far more likely that the children are being sacrificed by the Others than being turned into Others. We already have an example of blood sacrifice, in Bran's visions. That would also explain the sheep Craster gives them when his sons run out.



I really hate the 'Craster's sons are Others' theory, because it's based on assumptions of wildling women who know nothing and show canon.


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This very well could be another example of the unreliable narrator. However when GRRM uses this technique he plants evidence to the contrary. I don't seem to recall anything in the books that suggests otherwise (no pun intended, seriously). So in order for this to not be true that evidence has to be forthcoming in the next books.

We can't take the show as being canon, however this isn't the first time that the books hinted at something and the show downright confirmed it. Having said that, one of the biggest problems I've had with the show is that a baby was able to survive the trek from Craster's keep to the land of always winter. It's several hundred miles. How the hell did the baby not freeze/starve/dehydrate? The only possible conclusion is that the others possess matter transporters.

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