Labyrinths, Minotaur, Interbreeding

[Mithras]

1.

TWOIAF revealed that there are prehistoric mazes built by unknown culture known as mazemakers.

Some of their mazes are found in Lorath. From the bones found there, it is seen that the mazemakers were massively built, large people so much as to suggest an interbreeding between giants and humans. They are presumably destroyed by a race coming from the sea.

Labyrinthine construction is seen at the mysterious foundation of Hightower. There are endless labyrinths of tunnels going down the earth in Leng where original Lengii have massive built which is similar to the mazemakers of old. Supposedly, the Old Ones (sounds Lovecraftian) dwell in those underground mazes and they occasionally come up and demand sacrifices.

Keywords: labyrinth, interbreeding, sacrifice to the dwellings of the labyrinth

2.

Minos, the king of Crete, promised Poseidon (the sea god) to sacrifice a splendid white bull for his support in his ascension to the throne. However, smitten with the beauty of the white bull, Minos decided to keep it alive and sacrificed a regular bull instead. To punish Minos, Poseidon made Pasiphae, the wife of Minos, madly in love with the white bull. Pasiphae ordered Daedalus the craftsman to build a wooden cow so that she could get inside it and copulate with the white bull. After doing so, she got pregnant and her son was the Minotaur, a creature with the head of a bull and the body of a man. Seeing the monstrosity, Minos ordered Daedalus to construct a gigantic labyrinth to contain Minotaur.

After defeating Athens, Minos forced them a treaty demanding that every seventh or ninth year, seven Athenian youths and seven maidens, chosen by lot, were to be sent to Crete to be devoured by Minotaur.

Keywords: labyrinth, interbreeding, sacrifice to the dwellings of the labyrinth

3.

After building such a connection, I think we can extract more ideas from the myth of Minotaur.

The labyrinth of Minotaur was created to contain this disgrace/monstrosity born from interbreeding between races. Is that the case with these ancient mazes that were home to giant people who might be products of interbreeding between giants and men?

We also see in TWOIAF that dragons were probably created by interbreeding firewyrms and wyverns. There is a sense of science in this process. Daedalus was a scientist who helped the interbreeding process as well as creating the labyrinth to contain the damned offspring.

What about Minos/Pasiphae/White Bull vs. Night’s King and his Lady Snow White? It looks like Minos and Pasihpae are welded together in the person of Night's King. He is the one who committed the crime and he is the one who mated with the white entity he was supposed to slay.

[Mithras]

On the crown of the hill four-and-forty monstrous stone ribs rose from the earth like the trunks of great pale trees. The sight made Aeron’s heart beat faster. Nagga had been the first sea dragon, the mightiest ever to rise from the waves. She fed on krakens and leviathans and drowned whole islands in her wrath, yet the Grey King had slain her and the Drowned God had changed her bones to stone so that men might never cease to wonder at the courage of the first of kings. Nagga’s ribs became the beams and pillars of his longhall, just as her jaws became his throne. For a thousand years and seven he reigned here, Aeron recalled. Here he took his mermaid wife and planned his wars against the Storm God. From here he ruled both stone and salt, wearing robes of woven seaweed and a tall pale crown made from Nagga’s teeth.

But that was in the dawn of days, when mighty men still dwelt on earth and sea. The hall had been warmed by Nagga’s living fire, which the Grey King had made his thrall. On its walls hung tapestries woven from silver seaweed most pleasing to the eyes. The Grey King’s warriors had feasted on the bounty of the sea at a table in the shape of a great starfish, whilst seated upon thrones carved from mother-of-pearl. Gone, all the glory gone. Men were smaller now. Their lives had grown short. The Storm God drowned Nagga’s fire after the Grey King’s death, the chairs and tapestries had been stolen, the roof and walls had rotted away. Even the Grey King’s great throne of fangs had been swallowed by the sea. Only Nagga’s bones endured to remind the ironborn of all the wonder that had been.

Seastone chair is made from that notorious oily black stone. Pyke has an ancient and unknown history. Interestingly, it is said that men were significantly larger during the Grey King’s time and they lived longer. There is also another example of interbreeding between Grey King and a mermaid.

An even more fanciful possibility was put forth a century ago by Maester Theron. Born a bastard on the Iron Islands, Theron noted a certain likeness between the black stone of the ancient fortress and that of the Seastone Chair, the high seat of House Greyjoy of Pyke, whose origins are similarly ancient and mysterious. Theron’s rather inchoate manuscript Strange Stone postulates that both fortress and seat might be the work of a queer, misshapen race of half men sired by creatures of the salt seas upon human women. These Deep Ones, as he names them, are the seed from which our legends of merlings have grown , he argues, whilst their terrible fathers are the truth behind the Drowned God of the ironborn.

The lavish, detailed, and somewhat disturbing illustrations included in Strange Stone make this rare volume fascinating to peruse, but the text is impenetrable in parts; Maester Theron had a gift for drawing but little skill with words.

Again we see interbreeding between some mysterious sea culture and the possible ancestors of the ironborn. Maester Theron called them Deep Ones whereas in Leng, there are Old Ones and again massively built people.

[Lord Varys]

Isn't Yandel's conclusion that the mazemakers stone is not the same oily black stone that has been used for the Hightower foundation and the Seastone Chair?

If that's the case, then there is no connection between the Deep Ones and the Mazemakers. I'd also not go with the Deep Ones theory for the Hightower base, as the best analogy there seems to be dragon stone not shaped by the Valyrians (pinpointing to another origin, possibly ancient Asshai'i or some other great ancient dragonriding civilization).

[Mithras]

Isn't Yandel's conclusion that the mazemakers stone is not the same oily black stone that has been used for the Hightower foundation and the Seastone Chair?

If that's the case, then there is no connection between the Deep Ones and the Mazemakers. I'd also not go with the Deep Ones theory for the Hightower base, as the best analogy there seems to be dragon stone not shaped by the Valyrians (pinpointing to another origin, possibly ancient Asshai'i or some other great ancient dragonriding civilization).

The mazemakers supposedly were destroyed by a sea culture who might be the Deep Ones. And yes, the mazes in Lorath are not made from oily black stone.

[Lord Varys]

Oh, yes, I remember that. That could very well be.

Some sorts of Deep Ones clearly once lived in Martinworld (or still live beneath the waves). In addition we have the webbed hands of the Borrells, the squishers (or however they were called) from Crackclaw Point, the Ironborn Deep Ones, the people from the Thousand Islands (or rather the sea creatures they are arrived of), and the Toad Islanders.

That's way too much evidence. The Leng'i Old Ones do not strike me as Deep Ones, that another nod to HPL and a different type of ancient god-like demonic creatures.

[Mithras]

At the Sisters, where there are people with webbed-fingers (the mark), people used to make blood sacrifices to the sea.

“When there were kings on the Sisters, we did not suffer dwarfs to live. We cast them all into the sea, as an offering to the gods. The septons made us stop that. A pack of pious fools. Why would the gods give a man such a shape but to mark him as a monster?”

Lord Borrell is proud of his mark (webbed fingers) but he curses the mark on the dwarfs and calls them monsters. Something does not feel right.

The lord fingered the ribbon, frowning at the seals. He was an ugly man, big and fleshy, with an oarsman’s thick shoulders and no neck. Coarse grey stubble, going white in patches, covered his cheeks and chin. Above a massive shelf of brow he was bald. His nose was lumpy and red with broken veins, his lips thick, and he had a sort of webbing between the three middle fingers of his right hand.

It seems to me that Lord Borrell can be said to have a fishlike appearance.

We also see Craster's sacrifices to the White Ones.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

The Bulwers of Blackcrown also had Bors the Breaker, who drank bulls blood and gained the strength of 20 men, then allegedly grew horns. Make of it what you will, as Bulwers are Hightower vassals.

[Mithras]

The Bulwers of Blackcrown also had Bors the Breaker, who drank bulls blood and gained the strength of 20 men, then allegedly grew horns. Make of it what you will, as Bulwers are Hightower vassals.

Nice catch. Perhaps Higtowers experimented on the Bulwer ancestor.

[Crowfood's Daughter]

Just some interesting similarities with Tyrion I wanted to point out.

Asterion (Does the name sound oddly familiar?)

In the myth of the Minotaur, King Minos prayed to Poseidon for a white bull which was intended for sacrificial purposes to please the Gods. Instead King Minos decided to keep it for himself out of greed. The gods became angered and Aphrodite coerced King Minos' wife Pasiphae to fall in love with the white bull. The result of this unholy union was a monster half man/ half bull with the head of a bull and the body of a man and he was given the name “Asterion”.

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“Lannister!” he shouted, slaying. His arm was red to the elbow, glistening in the light off the river. When his horse reared again, he shook his axe at the stars and heard them call out “Halfman! Halfman!” Tyrion felt drunk.”--Tyrion

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“Plate and scale, I think. The scales gilded bright as the sun, the plate enameled a deep Lannister crimson. I would suggest a demon’s head for a helm, crowned with tall golden horns. When you ride into battle, men will shrink away in fear.”-Tyrion

• When Astrerion had grown up and become a most ferocious animal of incredible strength, King Minos (Asterion's psuedo-father) had him shut up in a prison called the labyrinth. In ASOIAF, Tyrion is imprisoned in the black cells after a trial which was administered by Tywin.

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• Occasionally in GRRM's writing there will be its of hints or foreshadowing in opening sentences and paragraphs of POV chapters. The following exerpts are solely for example of this phenomena:
• "Her twin’s face had a haggard look. “The shaft goes down to a chamber where half a dozen tunnels meet.“ Whoever did this might still be lurking in the walls. It’s a maze back there, and dark.” She imagined Tyrion creeping between the walls like some monstrous rat..”

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• Now in the first sentence of Tyrion's first POV chapter in the first book. Is as follows:
• "Ned and the girls were eight days gone when Maester Luwin came to her one night in Bran’s sickroom, carrying a reading lamp and the books of account. “It is past time that we reviewed the figures , my lady,” he said. “You’ll want to know how much this royal visit cost us.” -Cat GOT

  
  "The hunt left at dawn. The king wanted wild boar" -Bran GOT"

  "Eddard Stark had left before dawn, Septa Mordane informed Sansa as they broke their fast. “The king sent for him. Another hunt, I do believe. There are still wild aurochs in these lands, I am told.” “I’ve never seen an aurochs,” Sansa said, feeding a piece of bacon to Lady under the table. The direwolf took it from her hand, as delicate as a queen."-Sansa GOT

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"Somewhere in the great stone maze of Winterfell, a wolf howled."--Tyrion

In both stories, King Minos and Tywin are quite similar in their treatment of and relationship with Asterion and Tyrion. Both are humiliated, embarrassed, fearful and shun their sons with resulting imprisonment. The cause of infidelity in King Minos' wife was her husband's greed in wanting to keep the White Bull for himself. This greed angered to Gods and Asterion was born. Interestingly, the Lannisters are a house closely symbolized with greed and betrayal.

• Despite Tyrion's size, he is frequently referred to as casting a big shadow or being a giant:

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“And what am I, pray?” Tyrion asked her. “A giant?” “Oh, yes,” she purred, “my giant of Lannister.” She mounted him then, and for a time, she almost made him believe it. Tyrion went to sleep smiling"

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“He might even be slain. Tyrion had snorted in derision. “If Littlefinger is dead, then I’m a giant.”

“Maester Aemon said from the far end of the table. He spoke softly, yet the high officers of the Night’s Watch all fell quiet, the better to hear what the ancient had to say. “I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world.” Tyrion answered gently, “I’ve been called many things, my lord, but giant is seldom one of them.” “Nonetheless,” Maester Aemon said as his clouded, milk-white eyes moved to Tyrion’s face, “I think it is true.”

[Farwynds Oceanseer]

It seems to me that Tywin and Cercei project the monstrous qualities onto Tyrion, and he only takes on the monstrous attributes of Asterion to the extent that he internalizes their hatred of him or breaks under the weight of it. Cercei imagines Tyrion in the maze of secret passages in the Red Keep, but only when he's not really there. He is no more ruthless than anyone else playing the game of thrones, but he becomes a kinslayer (and monster prowling the labyrinth beneath the palace) only after being falsely accused of kinslaying and then discovering that Jaime, his one friend, was complicit in co-opting him into the gang rape of one woman who ever loved him.

I think Tyrion's status as a half-man is largely literary and symbolic, unless his dwarfism results from a near failure of Arys' dragon blood to mix with Joanna's normal, unmagical blood (some have theorized that, if A+J=T, Tyrion was going to be one of the stillborn monstrosities that Targaryans often give birth to, and only lived because his mother's death was an unintentional blood sacrifice). I hope Tyrion's reflection of the Minotaur stays ambiguous and largely symbolic. It fits in with the Ragnarok interpretation of the Song of Ice and Fire: the monsters are more human than the humans, and the humans are more monstrous than the monsters--with the added twist that "monstrosity" lies at least somewhat in the eye of the beholder, and monstrosity can come from internalizing the perception of one's peers.

TWOW spoiler:

It just occurred to me that The Bloody Hand's pronouncement in the Mercy chapter--"As I cannot be the hero, let me be the monster, and lesson them in fear in place of love--" echoes Frankenstein's monster (IIRC, "I have infinite capacity for love, and like capacity for rage. If I am denied the one, I shall indulge the other"). On the one hand, this is a playwright's projection onto the actual Tyrion, but on the other, there is a part of Tyrion that could say these lines that looms large from the murder of his father all the way through the battle of fire chapter in TWOW. Here again, he takes on monstrous qualities partially from internalizing the qualities that others--including Phario Forel--project onto him, and partially from his inevitable rage at the way the holders of these perceptions treat him. Frankenstein's monster is a physically terrifying being whose father/creator regards him as unnatural and tries to destroy him. The monster begins with a childlike need for love and descends into constant, violent rage when this need meets constant rejection, especially from Victor Frankenstein. I wonder if Tyrion will end up chasing and being chased across the Arctic by some father-substitute? Perhaps Qyburn or a White Walker will try to make a literal monster out of him?

It's really fascinating how ASOIAF is contains literal monsters and unnatural half breeds, symbolic/psychological monsters and characters perceived as monstrous half-breeds, and characters who might be something in-between, like Tyrion. I'm pretty sure this is a motif that GRRM has consciously woven into the narrative.

ETA: Thanks to Crowfood's Daughter for alerting me to forum etiquette on TWOW spoilers. :rolleyes:

[Crowfood's Daughter]

It seems to me that Tywin and Cercei project the monstrous qualities onto Tyrion, and he only takes on the monstrous attributes of Asterion to the extent that he internalizes their hatred of him or breaks under the weight of it. Cercei imagines Tyrion in the maze of secret passages in the Red Keep, but only when he's not really there. He is no more ruthless than anyone else playing the game of thrones, but he becomes a kinslayer (and monster prowling the labyrinth beneath the palace) only after being falsely accused of kinslaying and then discovering that Jaime, his one friend, was complicit in co-opting him into the gang rape of one woman who ever loved him.

I think Tyrion's status as a half-man is largely literary and symbolic, unless his dwarfism results from a near failure of Arys' dragon blood to mix with Joanna's normal, unmagical blood (some have theorized that, if A+J=T, Tyrion was going to be one of the stillborn monstrosities that Targaryans often give birth to, and only lived because his mother's death was an unintentional blood sacrifice). I hope Tyrion's reflection of the Minotaur stays ambiguous and largely symbolic. It fits in with the Ragnarok interpretation of the Song of Ice and Fire: the monsters are more human than the humans, and the humans are more monstrous than the monsters--with the added twist that "monstrosity" lies at least somewhat in the eye of the beholder, and monstrosity can come from internalizing the perception of one's peers.

It just occurred to me that The Bloody Hand's pronouncement in the Mercy chapter--"As I cannot be the hero, let me be the monster, and lesson them in fear in place of love--" echoes Frankenstein's monster (IIRC, "I have infinite capacity for love, and like capacity for rage. If I am denied the one, I shall indulge the other"). On the one hand, this is a playwright's projection onto the actual Tyrion, but on the other, there is a part of Tyrion that could say these lines that looms large from the murder of his father all the way through the battle of fire chapter in TWOW. Here again, he takes on monstrous qualities partially from internalizing the qualities that others--including Phario Forel--project onto him, and partially from his inevitable rage at the way the holders of these perceptions treat him. Frankenstein's monster is a physically terrifying being whose father/creator regards him as unnatural and tries to destroy him. The monster begins with a childlike need for love and descends into constant, violent rage when this need meets constant rejection, especially from Victor Frankenstein. I wonder if Tyrion will end up chasing and being chased across the Arctic by some father-substitute? Perhaps Qyburn or a White Walker will try to make a literal monster out of him?

It's really fascinating how ASOIAF is contains literal monsters and unnatural half breeds, symbolic/psychological monsters and characters perceived as monstrous half-breeds, and characters who might be something in-between, like Tyrion. I'm pretty sure this is a motif that GRRM has consciously woven into the narrative.

Interesting take. Which Ragnorok interpretation are you referencing? I have seen several and most have been quite literal in their interpretation, could you provide a link? Also, just a heads up for next time. Make sure to label a spoiler if you reference TWOW as many are waiting until it comes out to read it in full.

[Mithras]

/snip

Interesting connections.

Fire Eater has a theory that Tyrion and Dany will make a child. Tyrion told this to Sansa:

“Don’t lie, Sansa. I am malformed, scarred, and small, but . . .” she could see him groping “. . . abed, when the candles are blown out, I am made no worse than other men. In the dark, I am the Knight of Flowers.”

This might be similar to the mating of the bull and Pasiphae.

[mediterraneo]

Just some interesting similarities with Tyrion I wanted to point out.

Asterion (Does the name sound oddly familiar?)

In the myth of the Minotaur, King Minos prayed to Poseidon for a white bull which was intended for sacrificial purposes to please the Gods.

.....

I don't want to read too much in this, but we do have a character named a White Bull, which is connected both to the Labirint (he is an Hightower) and to the living rooms of a king and queen, being a kingsguard. There are other two kingsguards having had relationships with a king's lover or wife, too, and a queen having a son with a White Bull would fit the parallels.

Or be a red herring, or a totally unrelated fortuitous detail.

[Mithras]

I don't want to read too much in this, but we do have a character named a White Bull, which is connected both to the Labirint (he is an Hightower) and to the living rooms of a king and queen, being a kingsguard. There are other two kingsguards having had relationships with a king's lover or wife, too, and a queen having a son with a White Bull would fit the parallels.

Or be a red herring, or a totally unrelated fortuitous detail.

The White Bull was slain to save baby Jon. I believe Mithras is the main inspiration for Jon. Bull-slaying (tauroctony) is the most important aspect of Mithraism.

[Crowfood's Daughter]

I don't want to read too much in this, but we do have a character named a White Bull, which is connected both to the Labirint (he is an Hightower) and to the living rooms of a king and queen, being a kingsguard. There are other two kingsguards having had relationships with a king's lover or wife, too, and a queen having a son with a White Bull would fit the parallels.

Or be a red herring, or a totally unrelated fortuitous detail.

Im onto that as well, I have actually made a post specifically about this possibility. I have attached the link if you want to look it over, but one of the things that I haven't made mention of yet is the fact that Dany's vision about the white lion may very well be about him, and many are speculating that he will ride the white dragon. White Lion/White Bull.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/119529-geroldjoannatyrion-gjt/

[Crowfood's Daughter]

I also found it peculiar how GRRM uses the Bull imagery in describing Gendry and King Robert. I mean granted, yes the bull is a large and powerful animal blah, blah, blah…BUT there are so many large and powerful animals in the present, extinct, and mythological worlds to choose from, and why have all Stag similarities and attributes been left out completely? And why have I found similarities in the characteristics of the Bull symbolism in Stannis and Renly?

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“In Celtic symbolism the bull represented physical strength and power. To the Celtic way of thought, the bull was also extremely virile, and so symbolized fertility and the power to procreate …The Celtic bull symbol stands for strong will, an uncompromising nature, and even belligerence. Due to its unbending, stubborn personality traits, we get the term "bull-headed." …A third representation of the bull sign is that of riches and wealth. Likely due to the fact that this creature was a great source of food the Celts, it can easily be associated with easier, fairer, and abundant times in the Celtic villages.” http://www.whats-you...ll-symbols.html

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“Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He’ll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he’s copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day.”—Donal Noye (Renly also has much imagery with richness, food and abundant times due to his alliance with the Tyrells)

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"Taena’s black eyes sparkled with mischief. “When she wed Lord Renly at Highgarden, I helped disrobe him for the bedding. His lordship was a well-made man, and lusty."

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"The gold cloaks had named them the Three Whores, because they’d be giving Lord Stannis such a lusty welcome. Or so we hope."

Lets take a closer look at Bulls and their fertility symbolism for just a moment. In both Celtic, and Greek mythology as well as many early cultures viewed the Bull as a symbol or fertility as well. In modern day:

• An "intact" (i.e., not castrated) adult male cow is called a bull.
• If they are castrated young enough they are called steer
• Improper or late castration on a bull results in it becoming a coarse steer known as a STAG

Keep this in mind for a moment and check this out:

Ser Lucamore was a member of the Kingsguard during the reign of Jaehaerys I. He broke his vows and fathered sixteen children on three women. When his Sworn Brothers found out, they informed the king who had him gelded and sent to the Wall to join the Night's Watch. He was never known as Lucamore the Lusty while he lived the name came from a humorous song made after his death.

“The truth is not so funny. He was never called Lucamore the Lusty whilst he lived. His name was Ser Lucamore Strong, and his whole life was a lie. When his deceit was discovered, his own Sworn Brothers gelded him, and the Old King sent him to the Wall. Those sixteen children were left weeping."

In the first book (GOT), the events that take place are catalyzed by the death of Jon Arryn and his last words, “The seed is strong”. This is one of the most significant lines in the entire series and we all know that he was referring to Robert’s offspring, however, a man's last words should not be taken with a grain of salt.

“Cersei: Will the king and I have children?

Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”

However, when we first see the excerpt where “The seed is strong” can be found, most people do not pay attention to the rest of the paragraph.

“The seed is strong, Jon Arryn had cried on his deathbed, and so it was. All those bastards, all with hair as black as night. Grand Maester Malleon recorded the last mating between stag and lion, some ninety years ago, when Tya Lannister wed Gowen Baratheon, third son of the reigning lord. Their only issue, an unnamed boy described in Malleon’s tome as a large and lusty lad born with a full head of black hair, died in infancy.”

Later we learned that Lucamore has a song:

Arianne: “Yes, and what of Lucamore the Lusty, with his three wives and sixteen children? The song always makes me laugh.”

Although we do not yet know which specific song is about Lucamore yet, the biggest contender is a song called “The Lusty Lad” and one of the strongest men in the seven kingdoms sang it at the Red Wedding.

“The musicians were playing “Iron Lances” by then, while the Greatjon sang “The Lusty Lad.”

I would also like to mention an excerpt from the Rogue Prince which you should know by now is full of scandelous carnal recounts by mushroom and some even from the septon. The ONLY time the word "Lusty" is used is when describing a child. That child is Lucerys Velaryon the rumored son of Harwin Strong. ***Also note the similarities in the names of Lucerys & Lucamore.

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"The child was named Lucerys (Luke for short). Septon Eustace tells us that both Ser Laenor and Ser Harwin were at Rhaenyra’s bedside for his birth. Like his brother Jace, Luke had brown eyes and a healthy head of brown hair, rather than the silver-gilt hair of Targaryen princelings, but he was a large and lusty lad, and King Viserys was delighted with him when the child was presented at court."

This raises the question: With all of the sexual scandal happening and in the Rogue Prince storyline why would GRRM choose the word "lusty" to describe a little boy? Yes, I understand lusty can mean healthy, but still that is the only time it was used in TRP.

Also, TWOIAF uses this description of Robert Baratheon as a infant:

Yet even as Aerys donned his crown, in that fateful year of 262 AC, a lusty black-haired son named Robert had just been born to his cousin Steffon Baratheon and his lady wife at Storm’s End,

Considering this, I believe GRRM is somehow eluding to a familial connection between Lucamore the Lusty and the Baratheons/Gendry. I believe there is a possibility of others characters as well (he had 16 kids remember). Some possibilities include the following:

• Ser Duncan the Tall
• Lady Breinne of Tarth
• Grenn (The Aurochs)
• Gerold Hightower (AKA the White Bull)
• Gregor Clegan (AKA Ser Strong)
• Sandor Clegan
• Duck from the Golden Company
• Hodor

“The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him, to be sure. The White Bull Gerold Hightower as well, in his heyday, and Ser Arthur Dayne. Amongst the living, Greatjon Umber was stronger, Strongboar of Crakehall most likely, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all. But this was a woman. A huge cow of a woman, to be sure, but even so … by rights, she should be the one wearing down.” --Jaime

Evenfall Hall is the seat of House Tarth in the Stormlands. It is located on the western coast of the island of Tarth along Shipbreaker Bay. Breinne found a shield with Ser Duncan's personal sigil in Evenfall Hall.

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“True enough. Have you chosen your ravens yet, Tarly?”

“M-m-maester Aemon m-means to p-pick them come evenfall, after the f-f-feeding.” “I’ll have his best. Smart birds, and strong.”

“Strong,” his own bird said, preening. “Strong, strong.”

***Also, Duncan Strong is a sellsword in service to the Golden Company.

Some other influences maybe?

• "Luca" is a name that means "bringer of light"
• St. Luke is often accompanied by an ox or bull

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"Taena’s black eyes sparkled with mischief. “When she wed Lord Renly at Highgarden, I helped disrobe him for the bedding. His lordship was a well-made man, and lusty."

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"The gold cloaks had named them the Three Whores, because they’d be giving Lord Stannis such a lusty welcome. Or so we hope."

Stannis

Also... Remember Patchface? Yeah that cryptic fool of Stannis Baratheon who wears a helmet to mock the stag helm worn by House Baratheon. Take a look at the description of it below:

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"queer sideways walk of his, came her fool. On his head was a mock helm fashioned from an old tin bucket, with a rack of deer antlers strapped to the crown and hung with cowbells. With his every lurching step, the bells rang,each with a different voice, clang-a-dang bong-dong ring-a-ling clong clong clong."

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"Melisandre said , “Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer with the heart’s blood of his own beloved wife. If a man with a thousand cows gives one to god, that is nothing. But a man who offers the only cow he owns …” “She talks of cows,” Davos told the king. “I am speaking of a boy, your daughter’s friend, your brother’s son.”

Mya

GRRM used another bovine for Mya, the yak.

"Domesticated yaks have been kept for thousands of years, primarily for their milk, fibre and meat, and as beasts of burden. Yaks transport goods across mountain passes for local farmers and traders as well as for climbing and trekking expeditions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak

The White Bull was slain to save baby Jon. I believe Mithras is the main inspiration for Jon. Bull-slaying (tauroctony) is the most important aspect of Mithraism.

Aesop For Children (Three Bulls and a Lion)

"A Lion had been watching three Bulls feeding in an open field. He had tried to attack them several times, but they had kept together, and helped each other to drive him off. The Lion had little hope of eating them, for he was no match for three strong Bulls with their sharp horns and hoofs. But he could not keep away from that field, for it is hard to resist watching a good meal, even when there is little chance of getting it.

Then one day the Bulls had a quarrel, and when the hungry Lion came to look at them and lick his chops as he was accustomed to do, he found them in separate corners of the field, as far away from one another as they could get.

It was now an easy matter for the Lion to attack them one at a time, and this he proceeded to do with the greatest satisfaction and relish."

[mediterraneo]

The White Bull was slain to save baby Jon. I believe Mithras is the main inspiration for Jon. Bull-slaying (tauroctony) is the most important aspect of Mithraism.

Yes, I'm not arguing for or against any particular direction.

I was simply pointing out the existence of a character possibly having some kind of correlation: while reading the post I cited, I read "White Bull" and it was like a bulb lightning to me, and I wrote it, nothing more.

I'm mostly here in this thread to listen and learn, and form myself an idea about this.

[joluoto2]

I think both the Deep Ones and the Mazemakers are long gone. If they interbred with humans (that is if they actually weren't humans themselves) their bloodline might still exist (Ironborn having Deep One blood could be possible).