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Lomas Longstrider


mvd10

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Anyone knows more about him? Who he was, when did he live? I can't find much information about him but I would like to know more about him, was he from noble birth and if so from what house was he? If he was part of a main house he surely automatically would be one of the more badass members :P. He has travelled the world and came farther east than almost any other westerosi (except Corlys Velaryon maybe) but we don't know anything about the man himself. There also is a small problem, in the world book at the Lannister section it is said: ''Lomas Longstrider reports that even in far Asshai-by-the-shadow there were merchants who asked him if it was true that the ''Lion Lord'' lived in a palace of solid gold'' while in the Asshai section it is said that ''Lomas Longstrider never saw Asshai''. By the way, when the merchants in Asshai asked him they asked about the Lion Lord instead of the Lion King which the Volantese called Tommen II, so we can assume he lived during the Targaryen (or maybe even Baratheon) reign.


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Welcome to the forum! :cheers:



I think he was pre-Conquest. He names the Palace of a Thousand Rooms in Sarnath one of his nine Wonders Made by Man, but nothing in Valyria, which suggests he traveled in the Century of Blood (ca. 400-300 BC), after the Doom but before the Dothrkai sacked Sarnath and destroyed the palace. :)


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I think we can be reasonably sure that Longstrider never went to Valyria. Otherwise he would be featured in the Valyria section imo. That in turn points to Valyria either being gone or not terribly important at the times of his trouble (the former is more likely), because if Valyria was a great empire at the time of Longstriders travels, he would certainly have visited the city.


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I don't think we're meant to know much more about him.



When I think of things like this it brings to mind a quote from John Howe about Tolkien that also definitely applies to Martin.



"There's a tendency to expect too much of Tolkien, to expect answers that he never intended to provide."



I understand there is this ravenous hunger for all things Ice and Fire, answers to every little detail, histories of even the most minor characters, descriptions of places the books will never go, but at some point people have to realize that it is a fantasy land (I know people know this, but at times it seems to be lost), a construct from the mind of one man and it will never be as complete as a real history.



What would knowing all these details ultimately do for our enjoyment of the story? Doubtless, we may hear a little more about his wonders but I don't think he (GRRM) was ever going to fully divulge every detail about his life etc.


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Welcome to the forum! :cheers:

I think he was pre-Conquest. He names the Palace of a Thousand Rooms in Sarnath one of his nine Wonders Made by Man, but nothing in Valyria, which suggests he traveled in the Century of Blood (ca. 400-300 BC), after the Doom but before the Dothrkai sacked Sarnath and destroyed the palace. :)

I don't think it was a good time to travel... but who knows!
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I don't think it was a good time to travel... but who knows!

I agree with that, but I think it is the only point against the idea that Longstrider traveled during the Century of Blood. It is a point that is somewhat easily set aside, as we really don't that much about the CoB. Also, we can posit that Longstrider avoided the areas in turmoil, returning to them later when things were more settled. We have no reason to suspect the Far East was significantly afflicted by the upheaval of the Doom.

Versus that we have quite a bit of reason to think he never saw Valyria, and we know outright that he saw Sarnath.

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  • 1 month later...

If there could be one additional piece of work made after asoiaf and d&e it would have to be a novel or even the journals of Lomas Longstrider. Think of the things GRRM could do with that kind of project

I really want a longstrider novel, but also one about thesea snake. Reading a pov that takes place in the thousand islands would be so crazy.

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I really want a longstrider novel, but also one about thesea snake. Reading a pov that takes place in the thousand islands would be so crazy.

I'd like to have all that stuff rolled into the GRRMarillion. The World book is almost entirely from one POV, the GRRMarillion should have accounts from different maesters and travellers, all gathered into one place by Grandmaester Samwell.

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Apart from Fire and Blood Grrm could publish a book of several smaller novellas pov style, like a sea snake account, the jade compendium, something taking place during the conquest, or the accounts of maesters travelling to pre doom valyria. If he wants. But i doubt well ever see something like a travelogue from longstrider or velaryon. I mean there are 2 more books and some dunk and egg stories to be released before. But, damn, he could write hundreds of stories about this world...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Lomas Longstrider: Who was he and when did he travel? (The question of the thread)



Firstly, we actually don't know who he was - nothing yet printed speaks to it. However we can perhaps deduce a few things. We know that his Wonders and Womders Made by Man are popular works. Tyrion and Haldon Half-maester both know them. Tyrion recalls reciting the 16 wonders to his uncles in Casterly Rock while standing on his head. Even Barristan Selmy recalls Lonstriders visit to the great pyramid of Ghis. Selmy's perspective is perhaps the most telling as regards Longstrider's fame because Selmy would say over and over that he's just a knight and nobody special and EVEN HE knows of Longstriders books.



So from this we can conclude that Longstrider is a well-known historical figure in Westeros - among the learned at least. To become this quasi-famous I imagine he'd need to be from the Reach and likely from Oldtown itself in order to get his books copied into the Citadel library. Another tidbit that makes me believe that he hails from Oldtown is the absence of the Hightower in Wonders Made by Man. Now granted - we do not yet know all 9 wonders. We only know of 7: The Wall, The Titan of Braavos, The Roads of Valyria, The Bells of Norvos, The triple walls of Quarth, The Long Bridge of Volantis, and the Palace of a Thousand Rooms. But even then, the absence of the Hightower thus far speaks to us of someone who is likely from Oldtown and grew up looking at the tower everyday.



Now, to the question of when Longstrider traveled.



This was discussed on a previous thread and there is no consensus yet, but here are some facts as we know them. On page 11 of TWoIaF in the section about the Long Night we have this: "Lomas Longstrider in his Wonders Made by Man, recounts meeting descendants of the Rhoynar in the ruins of the festival city of Chroyane who have tales of a darkness that made the Rhoyne dwindle and disappear, her waters frozen as far south as the joining of the Selhoru." Here we can draw one certain conclusion: Longstrider traveled after the Rhoynish/Valyrian wars which occurred circa 1000BC. Also on page 291 we have this quote "Bereft of defenders, Sarnath of the Tall Towers fell to Loso the Lame less than a fortnight later. Not even the Palace with a Thousand Rooms was spared when Khal Loso put the city to the torch" Since the Palace is mentioned in Wonders Made by Man we can conclude that Longstrider traveled before the city was destroyed by Dothraki during the Century of Blood - which happened sometime around 40BC.



With 1000BC as a lower control limit, and 40BC as an upper control limit, we don't really have much to work with - since there are around 960 years in-between. But we do have two other things to help us out. Firstly there is Valyria itself. So far, Longstrider has failed to mention the greatest city in the world. Why would this be? Likely because he traveled after the doom. From Tyrion's thoughts we know that the only good source of information on Valyria exists in The Fires of the Freehold and Longstrider is never mentioned as a source for Valyrian lore. Our other source comes from the thoughts of Barristan Selmy in aDwD that Longstrider visited the great pyramid of Ghis and that it was empty and abandoned. I have proposed (and others have doubted me) that the pyramid area was inhabited by Ghiscari descendants and the region was abandoned post-doom when it was struck by the doom-tsunami which - from the thoughts of Victarion Greyjoy - we know struck Velos as well as other areas around slavers bay. I contend that the tsunami destroyed everything with the exception of the gigantic pyramid which possessed enough mass to withstand the watery assault. This line of reasoning is questionable I know - but it exists to support the assertion that Longstrider traveled post-doom.



Based upon all of that, here is a summary of what I believe:


Longstrder was born in Oldtown Circa 100BC in the shadow of the Hightower.


Since Oldtown is a city with a bustling port, he grew up hearing tales of Valyria's rather recent doom in 102BC along with tales of the wider world. This sparked an urge for adventure.


Longstrider was likely a scion of some noble house or another, else he'd not be able to finance his dream of travel.


He left Oldtown Circa 80BC and first traveled Westeros, visiting every place he could including the Wall.


The sight of the Wall filled him with astonishment and thus be began to take notes of everything he encountered, notes that became the foundation of his 2 printed works.


He crossed the Narrow Sea circa 75BC and traveled to all of the Free Cities. By now the "Century of Blood" was starting to earn its name & he likely had some harrowing encounters.


After several years he managed to travel across all of Essos. He got as close to Valyria as he could but could not penetrate the Smoking Sea. (Or perhaps nobody would take him)


He went to Asshai regardless of the contradiction on page 309 of tWoIaF. P197 supports his presence in Asshai and why wouldn't he visit that oft-spoken-of city of dark wonders?


He likely made it to the 5 forts but could travel no farther due to the terrain.


He returned to Oldtown circa 70BC and began to turn his notes into his two famous books. Which were quickly copied by the Masters of the Citadel. He might have also entered the Citadel himself since a well-traveled lesser scion of a noble house would add value to the knowledge collected in Oldtown.


He died before the conquest. His stories copied and re-copied became popular among the literate and singers used his stories for themselves, often manipulating his accounts and creating their own fiction from them.



I'm probably wrong in half of this. Hopefully we'll learn more about Lomas in WoW.


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  • 5 weeks later...

If there could be one additional piece of work made after asoiaf and d&e it would have to be a novel or even the journals of Lomas Longstrider. Think of the things GRRM could do with that kind of project

This!

Since other media interpetation--HBO--ignores book characters & chronology. I'd love to see all the things we'll never get in the series but wld more likely get to see in a film. The Citadel, Valaryia,brindle men, leatheren winged men, Krackens, Skull Island (& giant Apes), Asshai, Carcosa, etc.Therefore, I want movies! A trilogy! ala Marco Polo.

Warning: I'm IGNORING chronology for things I want very much to see

Pitch: Fleeing the Dance of the Dragons in a Swan ship, a young scholar from the Citadel joins famous explorer & map maker Malthar Xaq in charting Planetos and grows up and comes to influence events and lands he comes to write about.

Lomas Longstrider: Who was he and when did he travel? (The question of the thread)

Firstly, we actually don't know who he was - nothing yet printed speaks to it. However we can perhaps deduce a few things. We know that his Wonders and Womders Made by Man are popular works. Tyrion and Haldon Half-maester both know them. Tyrion recalls reciting the 16 wonders to his uncles in Casterly Rock while standing on his head. Even Barristan Selmy recalls Lonstriders visit to the great pyramid of Ghis. Selmy's perspective is perhaps the most telling as regards Longstrider's fame because Selmy would say over and over that he's just a knight and nobody special and EVEN HE knows of Longstriders books.

So from this we can conclude that Longstrider is a well-known historical figure in Westeros - among the learned at least. To become this quasi-famous I imagine he'd need to be from the Reach and likely from Oldtown itself in order to get his books copied into the Citadel library. Another tidbit that makes me believe that he hails from Oldtown is the absence of the Hightower in Wonders Made by Man. Now granted - we do not yet know all 9 wonders. We only know of 7: The Wall, The Titan of Braavos, The Roads of Valyria, The Bells of Norvos, The triple walls of Quarth, The Long Bridge of Volantis, and the Palace of a Thousand Rooms. But even then, the absence of the Hightower thus far speaks to us of someone who is likely from Oldtown and grew up looking at the tower everyday.

Now, to the question of when Longstrider traveled.

This was discussed on a previous thread and there is no consensus yet, but here are some facts as we know them. On page 11 of TWoIaF in the section about the Long Night we have this: "Lomas Longstrider in his Wonders Made by Man, recounts meeting descendants of the Rhoynar in the ruins of the festival city of Chroyane who have tales of a darkness that made the Rhoyne dwindle and disappear, her waters frozen as far south as the joining of the Selhoru." Here we can draw one certain conclusion: Longstrider traveled after the Rhoynish/Valyrian wars which occurred circa 1000BC. Also on page 291 we have this quote "Bereft of defenders, Sarnath of the Tall Towers fell to Loso the Lame less than a fortnight later. Not even the Palace with a Thousand Rooms was spared when Khal Loso put the city to the torch" Since the Palace is mentioned in Wonders Made by Man we can conclude that Longstrider traveled before the city was destroyed by Dothraki during the Century of Blood - which happened sometime around 40BC.

With 1000BC as a lower control limit, and 40BC as an upper control limit, we don't really have much to work with - since there are around 960 years in-between. But we do have two other things to help us out. Firstly there is Valyria itself. So far, Longstrider has failed to mention the greatest city in the world. Why would this be? Likely because he traveled after the doom. From Tyrion's thoughts we know that the only good source of information on Valyria exists in The Fires of the Freehold and Longstrider is never mentioned as a source for Valyrian lore. Our other source comes from the thoughts of Barristan Selmy in aDwD that Longstrider visited the great pyramid of Ghis and that it was empty and abandoned. I have proposed (and others have doubted me) that the pyramid area was inhabited by Ghiscari descendants and the region was abandoned post-doom when it was struck by the doom-tsunami which - from the thoughts of Victarion Greyjoy - we know struck Velos as well as other areas around slavers bay. I contend that the tsunami destroyed everything with the exception of the gigantic pyramid which possessed enough mass to withstand the watery assault. This line of reasoning is questionable I know - but it exists to support the assertion that Longstrider traveled post-doom.

Based upon all of that, here is a summary of what I believe:

Longstrder was born in Oldtown Circa 100BC in the shadow of the Hightower.

Since Oldtown is a city with a bustling port, he grew up hearing tales of Valyria's rather recent doom in 102BC along with tales of the wider world. This sparked an urge for adventure.

Longstrider was likely a scion of some noble house or another, else he'd not be able to finance his dream of travel.

He left Oldtown Circa 80BC and first traveled Westeros, visiting every place he could including the Wall.

The sight of the Wall filled him with astonishment and thus be began to take notes of everything he encountered, notes that became the foundation of his 2 printed works.

He crossed the Narrow Sea circa 75BC and traveled to all of the Free Cities. By now the "Century of Blood" was starting to earn its name & he likely had some harrowing encounters.

After several years he managed to travel across all of Essos. He got as close to Valyria as he could but could not penetrate the Smoking Sea. (Or perhaps nobody would take him)

He went to Asshai regardless of the contradiction on page 309 of tWoIaF. P197 supports his presence in Asshai and why wouldn't he visit that oft-spoken-of city of dark wonders?

He likely made it to the 5 forts but could travel no farther due to the terrain.

He returned to Oldtown circa 70BC and began to turn his notes into his two famous books. Which were quickly copied by the Masters of the Citadel. He might have also entered the Citadel himself since a well-traveled lesser scion of a noble house would add value to the knowledge collected in Oldtown.

He died before the conquest. His stories copied and re-copied became popular among the literate and singers used his stories for themselves, often manipulating his accounts and creating their own fiction from them.

I'm probably wrong in half of this. Hopefully we'll learn more about Lomas in WoW.

Well done!

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  • 1 month later...

I would love to know more about him as well, however I think he was just created as a means of giving us a tour and bits of info of lands beyond Westeros. Through him we are able to learn a bit about places that we may never be taken to via PoV's. I don't think we are ever meant to learn too much about the man himself, more just about the world in which he traveled.


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Even though it's unlikely, I have it in my headcanon that Lomas is a Lannister, or bastard of the Lannisters. Perhaps its just that I think the name fits in with the other Lannister names (Loren, Lancel etc.).

Not to mention he is asked specifically about the Lions of the west >.>

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Anyone knows more about him? Who he was, when did he live? I can't find much information about him but I would like to know more about him, was he from noble birth and if so from what house was he? If he was part of a main house he surely automatically would be one of the more badass members :P. He has travelled the world and came farther east than almost any other westerosi (except Corlys Velaryon maybe) but we don't know anything about the man himself. There also is a small problem, in the world book at the Lannister section it is said: ''Lomas Longstrider reports that even in far Asshai-by-the-shadow there were merchants who asked him if it was true that the ''Lion Lord'' lived in a palace of solid gold'' while in the Asshai section it is said that ''Lomas Longstrider never saw Asshai''. By the way, when the merchants in Asshai asked him they asked about the Lion Lord instead of the Lion King which the Volantese called Tommen II, so we can assume he lived during the Targaryen (or maybe even Baratheon) reign.

Well to try and answer your question, you quoted the book as quoting something Lomas said, versus the Asshai section which is a quote from the book's account, so it would seem to me that Lomas lied, he embelished

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