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Season 5 Casting, News and Speculation V 7 [show spoilers, book spoilers past OP]


Seneti

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In addition, I felt that Jon's election required one of the biggest suspensions of belief in the books (in a series full of dragons and white walkers). It will be interesting to see how it is handled since the show MAY not have time to delve too deeply into politics at the wall, especially with a Hardhome equivalent slated for ep 508, (at which point I would think Jon would have been LC for at least a few eps).

There's only, what, like 15 NW left at Castle Black right now anyway? I'm sure more will show up from Shadow Tower and Eastwatch fairly early on in the season, but the show could have the election happen before they get there and say that only members physically at Castle Black get to vote*. With Thorn currently wounded from the fight, seems like it would be pretty easy for Jon to get 8 of 15 votes to become LC. That even gives a built-in reason for resentment, the members who arrive from the other castles would see Jon as illegitimate because of how small the electorate was.

*Which is a dumb rule, but has actual, real-world precedent. When Rome was still a republic, only citizens who were physically in the city of Rome when there was an election could vote. There were no absentee or mail-in ballots.

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^Thorne and Slynt, neither of whom are credible leaders for different reasons, doesn't count as either competition, or setting the ground for broader mutiny. Right now, the show gives the impression that aside from those two, who everyone hates, everyone in the Watch loves Jon.

It is not enough to set up a good election or an interesting season.

It really feels to me as if you are setting yourself up for disappointment by insisting on a single scenario. It's an equally good, if not better, story to have Jon start with a lot of actual goodwill - 'hey, that's the guy thanks to whom we're still alive!' and then have that disappear as he makes decisions that people don't like. That's actually pretty common in politics, to have a politician enter office with very high ratings and exit in the dump. (Although I think that if we regularly murdered the politicians who failed to be effective in enacting change, at the very minimum there would be far fewer psychopaths in politics.)

So... relax. Remember: disappointment hurts on average twice as much as satisfaction feels good!

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It really feels to me as if you are setting yourself up for disappointment by insisting on a single scenario. It's an equally good, if not better, story to have Jon start with a lot of actual goodwill - 'hey, that's the guy thanks to whom we're still alive!' and then have that disappear as he makes decisions that people don't like. That's actually pretty common in politics, to have a politician enter office with very high ratings and exit in the dump. (Although I think that if we regularly murdered the politicians who failed to be effective in enacting change, at the very minimum there would be far fewer psychopaths in politics.)

So... relax. Remember: disappointment hurts on average twice as much as satisfaction feels good!

Where did you get that from?

I am not insisting on a single scenario, I am strongly disputing the notion the show will have the election in the first episode.

I think that the people who think the election will be downplayed to that extent without set-up are the ones who will be "disappointed". They are basing this notion on so many assumptions about what is and is not in the coming season.

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The only difference is the amouth of new plotpoints they can introduce, they have to start working towards wrapping certain plotpoints up. The second thing that some are affraid of is that there are no new books out that they can use for more information.



I don't think season 5 will make or break the series, season 7 will.


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I agree. While most of TWOW is probably done(not the written part but what actually happens), D&D probably only know very broad strokes of what happens in ADOS as opposed to TWOW where they probably know everything that happens in detail. That's because GRRM probably only knows the basic outline of what he wants to do with that book.


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Reading a lot of opinions all over the net, some are saying this is a turning point for the series and Season 5 will make or break this show moving forward? Anyone agree with this? People are saying Season 5 will be very different from past Seasons.

I meant to write a paragraph but got a bit carried away haha

I agree. For the first time, the showrunners have to prove they can keep the narrative going with less and less consistent source material. Most of the changes from book to show I've liked have involved characterization or "fleshing out" existing material with additional scenes. I even like some big character changes like more sympathetic Cersei. I have liked changes considerably less when they have changed or significantly added on to the narrative, which is why S4 was my least favorite (Craster's Keep, Grey Worm, Tysha etc.). Chronology and a lack of source material will mean that season 5 has to do a lot more of this. I hope D&D are up to the task but I'm not that optimistic based on S4.

I am also among those who consider books 4 and 5 to be significantly weaker and, on top of that, less suited for TV. Adapting the material will require a lot more editorial skill from writers; S5 will reveal more than any other season whether they're in tune with what's "most important," the overall essence of the series that needs to shine through in their editorial choices. I'm hoping they go back to the series' earlier focus on characterization/thematic depth and don't feel the need to shoehorn in more action. They need to speed things up because books 5 and 6 lack so momentum but that doesn't mean abandon the subtext. I'm fine with a S5 that's less action packed than its predecessor, but are the showrunners? Frankly, Game of Thrones has rarely excelled at action scenes and time is better spent with dialogue, even "meaningless" conversations that reveal character.

I would like to see something in line with Sopranos S4 (in a Game of Thrones context of course). Be comfortable with "less" but focus in greater depth on the characters and establish new conflicts to set the stage for a rousing climax (which is hopefully better than the Sopranos ending). Don't force the action.

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Reading a lot of opinions all over the net, some are saying this is a turning point for the series and Season 5 will make or break this show moving forward? Anyone agree with this? People are saying Season 5 will be very different from past Seasons.

I'll be super surprised if the show wins any major Emmys in 2015. I expect that the general reaction will be something along the lines of: "Not the best season but it's still good."

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In terms of popularity at least, I don't think anything can "break" the show at this point. In terms of how well-done the show is, that's certainly possible but I think D&D are more than up to the challenge. In terms of the show's connection to the books, that's much more plausible. We're never going to see True Blood levels of divergence, but things could start getting quite different from this point forward.


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The only difference is the amouth of new plotpoints they can introduce, they have to start working towards wrapping certain plotpoints up. The second thing that some are affraid of is that there are no new books out that they can use for more information.

I don't think season 5 will make or break the series, season 7 will.

Agreed. The showrunners seems to have grasped that they need to keep down the fluff and extraneous things and have cut quite a lot. Some people will hate it, some people will like it, and most people won't ever know.

I think the real test will be when the story goes into uncharted territory in seasons 6 or 7.

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Reading a lot of opinions all over the net, some are saying this is a turning point for the series and Season 5 will make or break this show moving forward? Anyone agree with this? People are saying Season 5 will be very different from past Seasons.

There is no make or break point for the series anymore. The make or break point was Season 1 - making a high-budget fantasy show means it has to stick with audiences, and be something special. It's only grown its viewership overtime. Each of the first three seasons were kind of make or break, the show can just coast into Season 7 if it has to at this point.

Season 5 shouldn't drag like the books, considering they're cutting a lot of the fat out, and even a good portion of the meat. What's going to make it great or meh is going to depend on how they allocate screentime. I wonder if they're willing to take that risk to get into more of the minor characters and interesting plots. Tyrion probably needs to be cut back on quite a bit this season. He had 25% more screentime this season than anyone else, and his journey isn't as interesting as a lot of the other material.Sansa and Brienne also need to lose about 10 minutes of their 20min S4 screentime for other developments. Theon, Stannis, and Yara all need to have their screentime expanded.

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Great find, larastone. That's a new costume Jaime has on.



BTW all, the Jon shot in the yearender of him turning to see something while training with Olly matches perfectly with the beginning of Jon XI in ASOS. So I guess that'll be the first we see of him in s5, when Mel goes to see him in the courtyard and they go meet Stannis atop the Wall.


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I wonder whether they take a shortcut and Stannis forces/heavily suggests that Jon becomes Lord Commander. Saves build up. Then Jon takes decision after decision which doesn't go well with the old time watch, and when a letter from Ramsay claims Stannis is dead Jon gets assassinated. Simple, straightforward.

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Great find, larastone. That's a new costume Jaime has on.

BTW all, the Jon shot in the yearender of him turning to see something while training with Olly matches perfectly with the beginning of Jon XI in ASOS. So I guess that'll be the first we see of him in s5, when Mel goes to see him in the courtyard and they go meet Stannis atop the Wall.

Hopefully Olly isn't getting the same beating that Jon gave Iron Emmett.

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yes it is

maybe we can play that since there is no new news to talk about which scenes would have made it to the season 2 year ender

for me :

Rob with greywind in the rain

Arya with gendry and hot pie looking at harrenhall

Danny teaching drogon to eat or dracarys moment when danny is chained

jon and sam looking at the north and speaking

stannis gets of the ship and leading his army

tyrion giving halfman speach

I agree with Jon and Sam and a shot of Arya but the Grey Wind and Drogon scenes wouldn't have been ready CGI-wise. We would have seen a shot of Dany looking dehydrated in the Red Waste and maybe Tyrion arriving in Kings Landing. Other than that maybe Sansa seated next to Joffrey from the premiere. We wouldn't have gotten anything big as we normally don't in the HBO yearenders.

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