Bran's Weirwood Vision

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Howdy folks. Yes I'm aware that Bran's vision has been discussed, dissected and debated a lot.

This is not my intent.

While doing my second complete read, there is a line that I completely overlooked the first time through and I did a quick search on here and could not find any topic discussing it.

In this chapter, Bran explored the caves in Hodor's skin and discovers a chamber full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Bran also thinks since he is broken that he will end up like them, doomed to spend all his years with a weirwood growing in him and through him.

ADwD, Chapter 34, Bran III (Bran's last chapter)

Bran’s throat was very dry. He swallowed. “Winterfell. I was back in Winterfell. I saw my father. He’s not dead, he’s not, I saw him, he’s back at Winterfell, he’s still alive.”
“No,” said Leaf. “He is gone, boy. Do not seek to call him back from death.”

“I saw him.” Bran could feel rough wood pressing against one cheek. “He was cleaning Ice.”
“You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw.”

Even though after this passage, Hodor does carry Bran back to his own chamber, where Bran has the longer vision back through time via the heart tree at Winterfell.

Am I reading way too much into the bold portion of the quote above? Or is the price for being a greenseer, becoming eternally, physically connected to the weirwood? Such as the longer you stay in the weirwood, the quicker the roots grow around you. I jokingly envision Bloodraven eating the paste he got from Leaf, sitting down, connecting to the Weirnet and he loses track of time while 'seeing' all he wants to see and learn. When he comes out of the vision, roots are around him binding him to his throne...he thinks to himself "Son of b*tch...and I propped Dark Sister against the wall across the chamber so I can't hack my way out. Guess I might as well get comfy, it looks like I'll he here a while."

Or does he feel the wood pressing against one cheek because his mind is in the weirwoods and his physical body is lying limp against the wood and his cheek is resting on the wood?

[dannyk65]

Interesting. Nice catch. I suppose we'll find out if the next book ever comes out.

[mediterraneo]

I'm on board, Bran is becoming, seems bound to become, one with the trees.
A true greenseer, as the others before him.
Possibly more powerful, actually doing things in the past and future adn influencing the outcome of the story.
it is even possible we already read of some of his interventions in the story...

[aDanceWithFlagons]

I believe Bloodraven is physically attached to the tree as life support, not necessarily for greenseer purposes. The tree is a life extension. Greenseers are not as robust as others so they may need to plug at an earlier age. That being said, Bloodraven was up in years before he became a resident of the Cave o' Doom. Bran should have many years before he will need to become a tree.

All this makes me think of the song and video 'Transdermal Celebration' by Ween. http://youtu.be/PtuVA4NOm0I

[DarkSister1001]

I believe Bloodraven is physically attached to the tree as life support, not necessarily for greenseer purposes. The tree is a life extension. Greenseers are not as robust as others so they may need to plug at an earlier age. That being said, Bloodraven was up in years before he became a resident of the Cave o' Doom. Bran should have many years before he will need to become a tree.

All this makes me think of the song and video 'Transdermal Celebration' by Ween. http://youtu.be/PtuVA4NOm0I

This. BR has been searching/waiting a VERY long time for Bran (or someone like Bran). I think they had to jack him in permanently to keep him alive longer, they needed more time. Personally, I don't think Bran will be there forever.

[Lady Meliora]

Very interesting catch! I just assumed he felt the tree in the vision, but considering the level of untapped potential, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they try to keep him around permanently.

[mediterraneo]

Well guys maybe you are right, maybe it is just a life support system started centuries after the Greenseer started having visions.

I notice that every Greenseer glimpsed in those caves is under a tree's roots.

I notice also that the first thing they do to prepare Bran is to bring him to a wooden seat under the roots of a tree where no other Seer is attached.

Only then they give him their seeds to eat.

But as a non-practicioner, I couldn't be more precise or more sure in my guts feelings. I don't really know how to breed a Greenseer.
Maybe you are right. Maybe.

[aDanceWithFlagons]

These other greenseers that Hodor/Bran sees in the weirwood roots looks to be dead. One of them tries to speak, his lips move but no sound comes out. It looks like they are beyond Bloodraven's frailty and dependency on the trees for life.

The seeds don't make the greenseer, they are born that way. The seedpaste weds a GS to the trees. Which is kinda vague. I think it allows a wireless network for memories in the trees and provides the tree with a way to record the greenseers own knowledge/experiences, and allowing the physical mating of the tree and greenseer before death. That's my take on it at the moment.

I think, and I hope I am correct, that Bran has received a weirwood seat so early because he is crippled. Of course it might be the case that all Singers have weirwood hammocks as beds. It's better than sleeping on the floor.

[mediterraneo]

Well, keeping up with a darker interpretation of what we saw, I agree with you completely: the other greenseers seem dead.

I give them for consumed and unable to distinguish themselves from the trees anymore, but still alive, as long as the tree is, in the way that the tree is.

To me, the one trying to speak is not an ecception, it is a temporal state. He can still try to speak, every now and then. This century, he is already unable to.

Another topic on which I totally agree is that the seeds don't do the Greenseer. For a Greenseer you need the blood - "genetical predisposition" sounded too out of setting - then you need the individual, then you need to attach him to the network, with a sacrifice to cross the door.

If that is true, Bran will end up phisically linked with the tree, without having been warned of that, forever prisoner of the cave, unable even to die, having sacrificed and eaten Jojen.
He will also have a great power, corresponding to his great sacrifices, from his legs and normal life on.

But hey, I choose to understand very dark things in that very dark cave, possibly I'm just scared by the shadows there and it went in a different way.

[Khal Shaggydog]

BR is indeed using the trees for life sustenance - he was an older adult by the time he was sent to the wall, and he is at least one generation older than Aemon. Aemon was known as the oldest living person in Westeros, so add another 23 or so years and you have the actual olderst living person in Westeros...BR.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

BR is indeed using the trees for life sustenance - he was an older adult by the time he was sent to the wall, and he is at least one generation older than Aemon. Aemon was known as the oldest living person in Westeros, so add another 23 or so years and you have the actual olderst living person in Westeros...BR.

Until Shiera Seastar removes her Quaithe mask and reveals herself! :cool4:

[Sword of the Morgan]

Interesting.

[joshoc8]

I'm on board, Bran is becoming, seems bound to become, one with the trees.

A true greenseer, as the others before him.

Possibly more powerful, actually doing things in the past and future adn influencing the outcome of the story.

it is even possible we already read of some of his interventions in the story...

im intrigued as to what you mean by 'already read some of his interventions in the story', care to elaborate? im very curious!

[RobertRivers]

im intrigued as to what you mean by 'already read some of his interventions in the story', care to elaborate? im very curious!

I think he might be referring to ghost finding the dragon glass and the big wilding meeting ground in clash of kings.

I've seen it said that bran has skin changed into the people who stabbed jon and jon himself, but I don't think he meant anything happening after bran gets to the cave.

On a side note, I'm kind of a fan of bran and bloodraven having a part of killing jon.

[LmL]

Bloodraven was speaking through Mormont's raven as early as when he told Jon to burn the wight. Nobody said burn, and nobody was even trying to burn anyone yet. The raven just said "burn!" and Jon was like, "yeah, that's a good idea" and then throws the lantern into the drapes. I know there are others, and probably a great cataloging them somewhere, but that one is pretty clear. The raven wasn't copying anyone, and he was imparting ancient knowledge about how to kill wights at a crucial moment.

[LmL]

And am I the only one whose eyes bug out when they read that "do not seek to call him back" line? I mean, if you couldn't do it, if it were impossible, no need to warn about this. Ergo, greenseers can raise the dead. I'm thinking this may have something to do with the creation of the Others and the nature of Coldhands.

Actually, I have a shit ton of notes about this subject exactly... Still trying to piece it together.

[wolfmaid7]

And am I the only one whose eyes bug out when they read that "do not seek to call him back" line? I mean, if you couldn't do it, if it were impossible, no need to warn about this. Ergo, greenseers can raise the dead. I'm thinking this may have something to do with the creation of the Others and the nature of Coldhands.

Actually, I have a shit ton of notes about this subject exactly... Still trying to piece it together.

Greenseers are the ones raising the dead.See the link below,i don't think you got to that one yet. LMLB.

[LmL]

Hey Wolfmaid, yes I've read that thread. Lots of good ideas, some which I agree with and some not and some I am undecided on. I have some similar and some very different ideas about the nature of the connection between greenseers and Others. I mostly disagree with your ideas about the Others not attacking people and the Others not raising wights, but that's ok. There certainly is a connection between the two, which I have been collecting notes on. I have many of the same quotes you have there an in the heresy thread and some Others as well. I liked your analysis re: the Oak and Holly King, although of course all the similar green man / horned god figures overlap, so he's drawing from some of the other green man traditions as well.

I'm working on putting it all together the best that I can, I'm sure you'll have things to say when I get it up.

As for men fighting Others, yes, absolutely.

“We knew all this. The question is, how do we fight them?”

“The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed, and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian. I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it.”

The Last Hero slew Others with the blade that he most likely made with the help of the cotf. It's strongly implied that men of the NW used obsidian against them, as Sam did. Obsidian is useless against wights, it's only good for WW / Others. Why would the cotf provide the NW with obsidian if not to kill WW?

[wolfmaid7]

Hey Wolfmaid, yes I've read that thread. Lots of good ideas, some which I agree with and some not and some I am undecided on. I have some similar and some very different ideas about the nature of the connection between greenseers and Others. I mostly disagree with your ideas about the Others not attacking people and the Others not raising wights, but that's ok. There certainly is a connection between the two, which I have been collecting notes on. I have many of the same quotes you have there an in the heresy thread and some Others as well. I liked your analysis re: the Oak and Holly King, although of course all the similar green man / horned god figures overlap, so he's drawing from some of the other green man traditions as well.

I'm working on putting it all together the best that I can, I'm sure you'll have things to say when I get it up.

As for men fighting Others, yes, absolutely.

“We knew all this. The question is, how do we fight them?”

“The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed, and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian. I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it.”

The Last Hero slew Others with the blade that he most likely made with the help of the cotf. It's strongly implied that men of the NW used obsidian against them, as Sam did. Obsidian is useless against wights, it's only good for WW / Others. Why would the cotf provide the NW with obsidian if not to kill WW?

Ahhh i see the confusion and i usually have to make the disticntion when i post about this.I think the "term" Others has been the biggest problem and i think its meant to be.From what i gather its what humans use to identify what they don't understand.I think no one has ever seen an Other because they technically don't exist.Its just the Old powers of the Greenseers hiding behind the labels of man.Humans see the wws and some readers do as well and think they are the Others and the ones responsible...........Nahhhh

To me at the end of this the Others will be revealed to be the greenseers themselves.We'll no that some characters might no that but the whole of westeros might not know that.

[LmL]

My ideas revolve around a group of human greenseers becoming others through some kind of transformation / resurrection process, or creating Others through the same. I do not think anyone like BR is controlling or raising wights, but someone like BR may have created them or transformed into them somehow. I don't want to get into the weeds because I am still working on it but that's the tree I'm barking up ;)

Thanks for directing me to all that, some good stuff there about garth. I see several characters playing the garth role, but sometimes they are "dark" and sometime "sunny," which seems to be a manifestation of the Oak / Holly King duality.

One thing about the Baratheons: they are the BLACK stag, not the green stag. Kind of sounds like a rebel greenseer, doesn't it?