Who killed Ser Hugh?

[Fae Boleyn]

I may be misremembering, but I thought Pycelle and Cersei were in the room and he read something in Cersei's eyes that meant "kill that old fool".

Is that right? Shit, maybe Varys did it!

No, Cersei wasn't there. Pycelle talks about knowing when he looked at Cersei that she needed Jon Arryn dead because his recent actions suggested he'd figured out the incest, but he never says she was present. Just that his knowledge influenced his actions.

He's also the one who tells Ned Cersei and the kids were en route to the Rock, which is very stupid if he's lying. It's too easily checked, and while he tries to encourage Ned to mistrust Varys, he has no idea who else Ned might talk to. And if Cersei and the kids weren't going to the Rock when Jon Arryn died, well, most people will know that and Pycelle will be in hot water if Ned finds out he lied.

[Mal Malenkirk]

Killing someone in a joust is not a reliable method of assassination. You can't bank on the target misadjusting his armor as hugh did, for example.

So I'm thinking this is just Gregor being his bloodthirsty self and so it'd down to luck.

I'm not even convinced he knew anything useful since Littlefinger was gleefully pointing him out to Ned and if he hadn't been killed by Gregor (I repeat; a very unreliable method of assasination) he would have been promptly interrogated. I'm guessing Littlefinger was doing that because Hugh was tied to the Lannister in a minor way (An informant, maybe) and so would have riled Ned against Cersei even more.

Littlefinger wouldn't have waited so long to get rid of Hugh if he did participate in the poisoning. How long did it take him to get rid of Dontos?

[John Suburbs]

Why would Littlefinger first put Ned on Ser Hugh's trail if he (LF) did not want Ned to hear what Hugh had to say?

I think it is more likely that even if Cersei did not order the poison on Arryn, she had a tacit agreement with Pycelle to make sure he died and that Hugh had information that would be helpful to Ned in discovering that truth. Meanwhile, Cersei is not only following Ned around, but his top people as well and they reported that Jory had tried to talk to Hugh before the tournament.

From there, it's not a stretch to imagine Cersei ordering GC to whack Hugh in the tourney.

[John Doe]

Coincidence.

[MyLittleFinger]

Like a lot of these conspiracies. Things don't add up. It's called chaos and real life. Shit happens. Gregor faced a guy completely unprepared to face him and murdered his ass hardcore. Why? Does there need to be a why? He's a monster and exploited a weakness he saw and took advantage of it. From what we know of Gregor he believes in inspiring fear through gruesome deeds. This is an easy way to show his comp, he's ready to win the prize at all costs.

[SnowHeart]

It just happened, because sometimes things do, and Littlefinger saw it and though "Now here's something I can use to confuse Eddard even more...". Much as I love LF he's and opportunist, not a god, and can't control everything that happens in Kings Landing (unfortunately).

Also a good red herring that GRRM strings out until Lysa's confession several boks later.

[Tynned Lannistark]

Gregor just killed him because that's what gregor does, he doesn't need a reason to kill some one. But I will say everything in game of thrones leads us to believe there's some big evil lannister conspiracy, when a lot of the reasons we were given turn out to be coincidental. To be honest, I'm not saying he did but sometimes I feel like he decided that joffrey hiring the assassin and Baelish killing Jon Arryn were decided after the fact.

LF being behind the assassination is probably planned from the very early stages of the creating of AGoT. Its an essential part of the plot.

The Lannister conspiracy is obviously planned to be fake. Varys hints at LF already in that book though its hard for the reader to get this before later in the series. Its all done very well.

Regarding Joffrey I always had the same feeling. It was either really decided after the fact, or just a poor plot line compared to the sophistication of the rest of the story.

[Poppa Chase]

Gregor Clegane, with a jousting lance, in the tourney grounds. I love this game, what's the next one?

[John Suburbs]

I think GC wantonly kills and rapes to his heart's content in most times, but at a tourney before the king and the entire court he's not going to intentionally kill someone just because that is what he likes to do. There has to be a good reason, and there has to be political cover if the court starts calling for his head.

So an accident, maybe, but I don't think he killed Ser Hugh just because he felt killing someone at the moment.

[Poppa Chase]

I think GC wantonly kills and rapes to his heart's content in most times, but at a tourney before the king and the entire court he's not going to intentionally kill someone just because that is what he likes to do. There has to be a good reason, and there has to be political cover if the court starts calling for his head.

So an accident, maybe, but I don't think he killed Ser Hugh just because he felt killing someone at the moment.

He saw an opportunity and took it. It wouldn't be seen as a crime because it was in a tournament where accidents happen. It just goes back to the Hounds statement. Men love to kill. There is nothing like it.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

He had the misfortune of going up against Gregor .

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I think Gregor killed him because that's what Gregor does, and it really was just some freak accident that had nothing to do with anything.

The "boy who owed Arryn everything" that Varys was trying to tip Ned onto was Baelish, not Hugh. Ned just came to the wrong conclusion and saw a conspiracy where there was none. In this case, a spade was just a spade.

ETA: If you think about it, we're goddamn told pretty much whom to suspect in the first book in the Arryn murder. Poison being "a woman's weapon" is laid on time and again (and it's shown multiple times, like Olenna killing Joffrey). There were two women who would have had regular access and interaction with Arryn: Cersei and Lysa. We know Cersei, despite fearing what Arryn might have known, had nothing to do with it. That leaves Lysa, the same person who had just had a conflict with Arryn over where to foster their son, and who happened to have just fled the capital as soon as he died. As for her co-conspirator/provocateur, you have Varys telling Ned about the "boy who owed Arryn everything." Which fits Baelish's description, in addition to all of his backstabbing and lying evident in the first book.

Not saying that everyone should have figured it out early (hell, I didn't), but I think we were told essentially who was behind it very early on.

[Bryanfury]

I think Gregor killed him because that's what Gregor does, and it really was just some freak accident that had nothing to do with anything.

The "boy who owed Arryn everything" that Varys was trying to tip Ned onto was Baelish, not Hugh. Ned just came to the wrong conclusion and saw a conspiracy where there was none. In this case, a spade was just a spade.

ETA: If you think about it, we're goddamn told pretty much whom to suspect in the first book in the Arryn murder. Poison being "a woman's weapon" is laid on time and again (and it's shown multiple times, like Olenna killing Joffrey). There were two women who would have had regular access and interaction with Arryn: Cersei and Lysa. We know Cersei, despite fearing what Arryn might have known, had nothing to do with it. That leaves Lysa, the same person who had just had a conflict with Arryn over where to foster their son, and who happened to have just fled the capital as soon as he died. As for her co-conspirator/provocateur, you have Varys telling Ned about the "boy who owed Arryn everything." Which fits Baelish's description, in addition to all of his backstabbing and lying evident in the first book.

Not saying that everyone should have figured it out early (hell, I didn't), but I think we were told essentially who was behind it very early on.

I agree with all of this. In a literary sense, Ser Hugh was the red herring, the misdirection. That Ser Hugh died is meant to look suspicious, but it really is just a freak accident (or an intentional but unrelated murder, depending on how you view Gregor). Some people don't agree, but AM is right on the money imo wrt Varys referring to Littlefinger here. And as far as Ser Hugh goes, I doubt Gregor even knew the guys name, let alone being part of a conspiracy to keep him quiet.

ETA: I also doubt 100% that Gregor would listen to anyone but Tywin anyway. I doubt he'd do anything for LF or Cersei without Tywins approval.

[mankytoes]

I agree with all of this. In a literary sense, Ser Hugh was the red herring, the misdirection. That Ser Hugh died is meant to look suspicious, but it really is just a freak accident (or an intentional but unrelated murder, depending on how you view Gregor). Some people don't agree, but AM is right on the money imo wrt Varys referring to Littlefinger here. And as far as Ser Hugh goes, I doubt Gregor even knew the guys name, let alone being part of a conspiracy to keep him quiet.

That's what I was going to say, I think this is easier to figure if you think of it as a book. This part of the story is a murder mystery- "who killed Jon Arryn", and Ser Hugh is there to complicate things for us and Ned.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I don't believe in coincidence. If Ser Hugor had anything to do with Jon Arryn's death, and I definitely believe he did or at the very least knew who did it, then his death was planned.

Lysa may not have been involved in his death, but Petyr has his hot little hands all over it. He does not overlook little details like witnesses as he so colorfully illustrated with the death of Ser Dontos.

[juanml82]

What could Ser Hugh have witnessed, though? He probably wouldn't have realized Lysa killed Jon. At most, he might say he doesn't think the Lannisters killed him

[Mychel_Redfort]

ETA: If you think about it, we're goddamn told pretty much whom to suspect in the first book in the Arryn murder. Poison being "a woman's weapon" is laid on time and again (and it's shown multiple times, like Olenna killing Joffrey). There were two women who would have had regular access and interaction with Arryn: Cersei and Lysa. We know Cersei, despite fearing what Arryn might have known, had nothing to do with it. That leaves Lysa, the same person who had just had a conflict with Arryn over where to foster their son, and who happened to have just fled the capital as soon as he died. As for her co-conspirator/provocateur, you have Varys telling Ned about the "boy who owed Arryn everything." Which fits Baelish's description, in addition to all of his backstabbing and lying evident in the first book.

Not saying that everyone should have figured it out early (hell, I didn't), but I think we were told essentially who was behind it very early on.

I agree, Lysa is a prime suspect from the end of AGOT when you put these two quotes close :

From Game 55 :

"I did hold Tyrion Lannister, but no longer," Catelyn was forced to admit. A chorus of consternation greeted the news. "I was no more pleased than you, my lords. The gods saw fit to free him, with some help from my fool of a sister." She ought not to be so open in her contempt, she knew, but her parting from the Eyrie had not been pleasant. She had offered to take Lord Robert with her, to foster him at Winterfell for a few years. The company of other boys would do him good, she had dared to suggest. Lysa's rage had been frightening to behold. "Sister or no," she had replied, "if you try to steal my son, you will leave by the Moon Door." After that there was no more to be said.

and from Game 59 :

"I was speaking of your sister. I proposed that Lord and Lady Arryn foster two of my grandsons at court, and offered to take their own son to ward here at the Twins. Are my grandsons unworthy to be seen at the king's court? They are sweet boys, quiet and mannerly. Walder is Merrett's son, named after me, and the other one... heh, I don't recall... he might have been another Walder, they're always naming them Walder so I'll favor them, but his father... which one was his father now?" His face wrinkled up. "Well, whoever he was, Lord Arryn wouldn't have him, or the other one, and I blame your lady sister for that. She frosted up as if I'd suggested selling her boy to a mummer's show or making a eunuch out of him, and when Lord Arryn said the child was going to Dragonstone to foster with Stannis Baratheon, she stormed off without a word of regrets and all the Hand could give me was apologies. What good are apologies? I ask you."

In five chapters, we learn Lysa is ready to kill anyone who would try to separate her from her son, and that Jon Arryn had decided to do so.

[Poppa Chase]

I don't believe in coincidence. If Ser Hugor had anything to do with Jon Arryn's death, and I definitely believe he did or at the very least knew who did it, then his death was planned.

Lysa may not have been involved in his death, but Petyr has his hot little hands all over it. He does not overlook little details like witnesses as he so colorfully illustrated with the death of Ser Dontos.

By painting it like he was the culprit, he deflected the blame trom the most kill likely killer. His wife. Him being killed under suspicious circumstances, was just one of many things that worked out in Littlefingers favor.

[HosteenOsteen]

The Littlefinger-Arryn-Lysa mystery was the hardest one in all ASOIAF for me to crack, and the outcome I was most surprised by, and part of this is due to how effectively GRRM aldi the red herring trail with Ser Hugh.

I also, though, somewhat agree with the comment that GRRM decided this and bran's assassin attempt ex post facto.

[Elia Sand]

"Hey Gregor, pssst Gregor, Ser Hugh called you a pussy" - Littlefinger

Good one.