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SPOILERS - The New Bakker Story (or the first half anyways)


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WLW, ch. 15:

Not sure what to make of that, but it might be what an upside-down soul is.

I think Bakker is saying the concept of a "soul" is the result of confusion. Which fits - to an extent - with the idea that souls are born of the Outside penetrating the Inward, along with the minds of every (at least sentient) being being part of the One.

(This *might* be the realization that gets one out of damnation, a Nirvana that isn't the ego-centric walk into Oblivion the Nonmen tried)

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It sounds like a soul is imprisoned by the boundaries of flesh, even in death?

I considered that....But what is tortured in the Outside then?

Wouldn't it make more sense that the "soul" is just the sense of identity taken on by the God/Outside (I suspect these might be synonymous) seeing reality from the limited first-person perspective?

So those in Hell are caught up in the delusion that this identity that is in truth only a flesh-encapsulated character for the God is in fact something that persists beyond the body? Once you abandon the identity apart from God/Outside, you "cease" to exist by recollecting Your true nature.

This also suggests that out of any group it's the Cish who escape damnation. The Nonmen failed because they saw the journey toward Oblivion as an individual conquering existence, which is too ego-centric and thus bound to fail as you identify with the illusion you should abandon upon leaving your body.

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The thing about sorcerer salt being the source of Chanv is why would Jekhia be the only source of it? Alot is clearly consumed judging by how most of the Ainoni caste nobility are addicted and I don't think Jekhia has enough dead sorcerers to supply High Ainon for hundreds of years. My guess is that there's a non man mansion there with enough dead to be used. Or they get in from the east. By the way WTF is going on in the east anyway? The only time it's mentioned is that Jekhia has connection there and they have Chanv. If we keep the lord of the rings analogy going it would be Inchoroi worship.

Yea but remember when the Lil boy grabs some (sorcerers salt) and the narrator says that would be his fortune. That's where I got the idea from.

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Isn't earwa hell?

Hmmm, perhaps Earwa is Hell from a Gnostic perspective, and the "souls" in the Outside are parts of God that are suffering phantom-limb syndrome with respect to their entire former bodies. They cling to the concept of flesh as well as individuality, and suffer for it.

Love that last paragraph and agree.

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience."

- Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

“The first piece, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness with the Universe and all its powers and when they realize that at the center of the Universe dwells the Great Spirit and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us.”

- Black Elk of the Oglala Sioux

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Yea but remember when the Lil boy grabs some (sorcerers salt) and the narrator says that would be his fortune. That's where I got the idea from.

Salt was a precious commodity in the ancient world. I really think that's all the narrator means.
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Yea but remember when the Lil boy grabs some (sorcerers salt) and the narrator says that would be his fortune. That's where I got the idea from.

Right but remember no one knows where Chanv comes from, except some people in Jekhia. So how would a random boy in Shimeh know? I think as others have said it's just about salt being valuable.

Any ideas about Eanna? Bakker being Bakker I;m sure he worked out what it's like there but we have very few hints in the story.

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Right but remember no one knows where Chanv comes from, except some people in Jekhia. So how would a random boy in Shimeh know? I think as others have said it's just about salt being valuable.

Any ideas about Eanna? Bakker being Bakker I;m sure he worked out what it's like there but we have very few hints in the story.

You think it's a coincidence that Earwa anagrams to Aware and Eanna anagrams to Anane? I think not.
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Ok didn't notice that, I had to look up Anane and Wikipedia says it's the name of a fallen angel in the book of Enoch, but still what's the significance of any of this? There is a whole tribe of men over there who've been doing God knows what, I figure they'll enter the story at some point.


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Actually, so far as Eanna goes, I don't know that we'll ever learn too much about it aside from a tidbit here and there, perhaps. In one of his interviews (or maybe it was on Zombie Three Seas, not sure), Bakker said that he hadn't really developed Eanna that much (if at all), as it isn't intended to be a significant part of the story beyond its role as a geographical origin of the Five Tribes.



This statement was older, and obviously stuff changes (especially in the writing of a series as epic and sprawling as TSA), so who knows. I do believe we'll learn a thing or two about it at some point, but I don't think it (or the tribe of people that remained there, drawing a blank on their name) will ever become especially important.



I do, however, have a little crackpot that everyone there has already been slaughtered by the Inchoroi, thus their focus on Earwa...


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I do, however, have a little crackpot that everyone there has already been slaughtered by the Inchoroi

Probably not. IIRC we know from the appendix that there is some contact with Eanna in the Earwan land of Jekhia, and that the Jekhian scout of the Skin Eaters is part Xiuhianni (the human tribe that still lives in Eanna). So it`s not that isolated from the Three Seas. I think the reason it doesn`t get mention very often is that there is nothing interesting there, just a wild land inhabited by a primitive tribe of nomads.

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Bakker has said that Eänna will play a role in AE. This was on the TSF.

That was some time ago though, so we don't know that that hasn't been pushed into TSTSNBN. I assume Eänna will play some role in the future of the series, but mainly in the sense that that Xiuhianni, like the rest of humanity, pose a problem if the Consult want to solve the 144,000 problem. I therefore assume the Consult have in some way been active in Eänna, but I think if they'd exterminated the Xiuhianni there we'd have heard about it, so I assume they've made use of them or that they are not numerous enough to be useful.

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