Sophie Turner: traumatic scene

[Miss Carnahan]

Many (naive) people did take it as a substantiated rumor if not fact, just because it was in this silly article that reported it as a fact, without naming a source: http://www.christiantoday.com/article/game.of.thrones.season.5.spoilers.myrand.pretend.arya.stark/42929.htm

And this was their "source":

The author of the article (which is pretty bad in itself, the author mixed up Ramsay's girlfriend and Myranda Royce) was simply speculating.

Ah yes, it does seem rather unreliable and crackpot, thanks for the link.

+ when it comes to certain rumors, I sometimes tend to be naive (and I'm sure I'm not the only one, so I suppose speculation should only be encouraged if there's actual proof or reason to believe that it could be true)

I agree that writing an article, simply based on some speculation on the internet (and reddit of all the sources), seems rather silly and rash.

[Miss Carnahan]

BTW, I'm starting to think that the biggest upcoming controversy in TWOW and season 5 will be Sansa not having sex with Littlefinger. This would I'm sure, upset and deeply disappoint many people, since so many seem certain and determined that Sex with Littlefinger (hereinafter: SWLF) is inevitable for Sansa, one way or the other. SWLF has been deemed as necessary for Sansa's development as a character and as a "player". The question is just, what convoluted reason can be found for Sansa to engage in SWLF. :P

If SWLF cannot work out for some reason, the alternative is sex with someone else, but only for manipulation, because that's the only way to imagine Sansa having sex, apparently. I can't even imagine the shock and controversy that would arise if Sansa actually has sex with someone but because she likes them - or, gods forbid, loves them (shock! horror! We can't have any romance in ASOAIF!).

Yes, many some of the unsullied even think that they already had sex in episode 4x08. Never mind that there's no proof or reason for it whatsoever ...

[FreeParking]

Yes, many of the unsullied even think that they already had sex in episode 4x08. Never mind that there's no proof or reason for it whatsoever ...

I am not sure where you got that from. From what I have seen and heard, a few here and there think that, but that vast majority do not.

[Miss Carnahan]

I am not sure where you got that from. From what I have seen and heard, a few here and there think that, but that vast majority do not.

You simply have to read the youtube comments on that particular scene, though I don't talk to a lot of unsullied (only my mother and my sister's boyfriend and they both haven't seen s4 yet, and some people on tumblr), so my comment might have been a bit of a generalization :dunno: sorry, meant no offence

[Gregor Clegane's head]

I don't think it will be a rape scene, I really hope not anyway.

She said before fans would really like where her story is going and rape isn't that, so it's probably something involving murder.

[TeethGrinder]

She's 18. It's time.

[Annara Snow]

She's 18. It's time.

For what?

[juanml82]

Shaking Sweet robin gets murdered by LF and Sansa helps or is in some other way complicit in his death. But personally I think that the story has been hanging the threat of rape over Sansa since the beginning. The hound, Joffrey, the crowd at Myrcella's send off. In the books there is a pretty rapey singer who makes an attempt on the Fingers. This is starting to feel like an inevitability to me and I dread the prospect.

The problem is that the scene was traumatic to the film crew. A cold blooded murder doesn't fit the bill. It has to be an emotional, and very likely, violent scene.

You mean, you read one more of the crazy and ridiculous speculations by fans in the comments on WoTW and other websites. Let's not spread them around as rumors, please. It's bad enough that that ridiculous website Christian-something ran a silly article where they reported the speculation of a really bad WiC writer that Myranda would take over fArya's role as if it were a fact, and then everyone suddenly started talking about it as if it was substantiated in any way and there was an actual source of that nonsense.

I could start a crazy rumor right now by posting some absurd idea of what Sansa could be doing. Only it's hard to make up something sillier than what has already been suggested. FFS, a couple of people in the comments on WotW are now speculating on Sansa and Robin having sex (?! :ack: ), maybe they wanted to come up with something that would prove that Sansa/LF sex is not the most disgusting idea there is. I guess Sansa has to be not just a speculated child murderer but also a pedo child abuser. :rolleyes: Maybe they could throw in some cannibalism, too. Why not, maybe Sansa starts baking children and eating them after luring them to her gingerbread house. :rolleyes:

Well, Show!Robin's age is undermined and the actor playing him should be turning 13 already. It's probably illegal in most countries. Do you wish to ask thirteen years boys how far they'd be willing to go with Sophie Turner?

Snaky comment aside, I certainly wouldn't put it in the same light of a woman abusing a seven years old child.

Why would she be having sex with him if it's just so she can say that he tried to rape her? In that case, she would be telling them he did rape her. Which is a great idea if she wants to ruin the chances of annulment of her marriage to Tyrion (among other things).

And why would she be doing any of that, when all she had to do if she wanted to get rid of him would be to tell the truth about Lysa's murder in episode 4.8?

And that's the problem... "Look, someone is speculating on an online forum. Let's make it into a news article."

I wouldn't be surprised if someone in a few days takes that "Sansa the cannibalistic witch" nonsense I just made up as a joke and writes in an article that "it has been speculated that..."

OMG! Sansa will escape to Skaggos, where she'll lead the van of the Badass Skagosi Unicorn Cavalry and they'll feast on the flesh of the fallen after battle! Make it so!

Just kidding, don't take it seriously.

Ok, what the hell, make it happen!

For what?

Murder, of course. This is Westeros after all :P

[Faceless Man Friday]

Why would she be having sex with him if it's just so she can say that he tried to rape her? In that case, she would be telling them he did rape her. Which is a great idea if she wants to ruin the chances of annulment of her marriage to Tyrion (among other things).

And why would she be doing any of that, when all she had to do if she wanted to get rid of him would be to tell the truth about Lysa's murder in episode 4.8?

Why? She will be using the weapons she has to escape LF dominion over her. In the show the female role-model of a women most in control of her life for an impressionable Sansa is Cersei. Cersei told her that her greatest weapon is her tears and what was between her legs. In her last couple of appearances of last season it seemed Sansa was starting to put that lesson into practice, especially when she was making her new dress and was very coy with LF and when she did not seem revulsed when he kissed her. I believe she is discovering LF weakness and it is her. She can continue to be coy about it and lure him further into her control but if something "Traumatic" is going to happen it seems to me it is going to be either rape or murder and I pick murder. Rape doesn't fit LF and I think would just be too cliche. I believe he will think to the bitter end he is controlling the situation and never realize until it is too late that Sansa played him all along. Of course this is all just my own speculation and you are free to completely disagree. The good thing is that unlike the Books, we only have to wait until next Spring to find out what really happens. :drool:

[Annara Snow]

Why? She will be using the weapons she has to escape LF dominion over her. In the show the female role-model of a women most in control of her life for an impressionable Sansa is Cersei. Cersei told her that her greatest weapon is her tears and what was between her legs. In her last couple of appearances of last season it seemed Sansa was starting to put that lesson into practice, especially when she was making her new dress and was very coy with LF and when she did not seem revulsed when he kissed her. I believe she is discovering LF weakness and it is her. She can continue to be coy about it and lure him further into her control but if something "Traumatic" is going to happen it seems to me it is going to be either rape or murder and I pick murder. Rape doesn't fit LF and I think would just be too cliche. I believe he will think to the bitter end he is controlling the situation and never realize until it is too late that Sansa played him all along. Of course this is all just my own speculation and you are free to completely disagree. The good thing is that unlike the Books, we only have to wait until next Spring to find out what really happens. :drool:

Sorry, but the idea of Sansa controlling or manipulating Littlefinger through actual sex is just ridiculous. How is she going to do it, with some Pod-like virginal sex skills that would make his brain melt? She's a teenage girl with a developing sexuality, who would be massively emotionally affected by her first time - most people are - and who also needs to preserve her virginity for the time for social and political reasons (from having to annul her marriage, to the fact that her reputation depends on it and it would make her "soiled" in the eyes of the society she lives in), he's an adult man with significantly more sexual experience, who doesn't need to worry about his reputation, because he wouldn't be the one the Westerosi society would considered 'soiled' (they would think bad of him if they believed he raped her, but they would still consider Sansa 'soiled' even if she was raped; that's the kind of culture they live in). The only one that could possibly gain power over the other through actual sexual intercourse is Littlefinger, not Sansa.

On the other hand, what does Sansa have to gain by having sex with him? What is he going to trade with her for sex? He is already telling her about his plans, as much as he's ever going to tell her, and claims that he's working to give her her birthright. He already wants to fuck her really badly, why would she let him have what he wants, instead of staying out of reach and letting him desire her without getting what he wants? That would only make him want her more. She doesn't have to do anything at all to manipulate LF sexually, except exist in his vicinity and not openly reject him/not crush his hope and belief that she'll eventually want to be his lover.

And Sansa doesn't see Cersei as a role model at all, she hasn't since book 1. During Blackwater, she was thinking to herself that she disagreed with Cersei, or ignoring her advice altogether - there was never any times when she thought to herself afterwards: "Cersei told me that tears are a woman's weapon but what's between my legs is even better. Maybe I should try that. Hey, maybe I start crying now, or offer the Hound to give him my virginity. Maybe Dontos will rescue me sooner if I slep with him. Maybe I should let Tyrion consummate our marriage, pretend I really like him, cry in front of him and ask him to comfort me? He is so needy and wants me, I could manipulate him into siding with me against his family, perhaps? Hm, maybe I should sleep with Petyr now?" There's no evidence whatsoever that it's any different in the show. There's never any point where Sansa thinks that Cersei is someone who should be emulated. In addition, in the book Littlefinger tells her that Cersei is a bad player - she only has her beauty and her name, and can't use any other weapons. LF is teaching her in the book to use her intelligence and perceptiveness to realize what people want, and to use her talent for lying and pretending to manipulate people; in the show, we're supposed to think she's already well on her way to knowing that. And Cersei, with her crass methods is, additionally, now going to prove that nobody should be emulating her, because she's going to fuck up things completely and ruin herself. Sansa is completely different in personality from Cersei, and smart enough to realize that crass methods like Cersei's are not good in any way. If she is going to use anyone from KL other than Littlefinger himself as a role model of political manipulation, it would be the Tyrells, with their fantastic PR (they know how important it is to present a good image and make people love you, something Sansa was aware herself before she even met them! And they know how to make people love them) and scheming far subtler than Cersei's "either kill it, fuck it, of fuck someone to kill it".

As for Sansa not looking repulsed when he kissed her in the show, the screenstill from the scene (a different angle than the one they used in the episode) that can be found online (and has been linked on this forum a few times) shows Sophie Turner looking pretty repulsed. The fact that you don't know how Sansa is feeling during that scene on the show just shows that they are bad at conveying character's emotions and screw up in editing, because they were far more focused on Lysa seeing it and how it would affect the plot. If they had wanted to make it look like Sansa wasn't bothered by LF kissing her, they would have told Sophie to play it like that to begin with.

[Faceless Man Friday]

Annara, you maybe right, see you back here next spring and we will see. :eek:

[Ellfoy]

Snip

:agree: Sansa using sex to manipulate Littlefinger will be for me the biggest let down ever. I want the books to show that girls can accomplishe things without using sex or "acting like a westerosi man" (= martial skills --- > Arya, Brienne, Asha...) and that Cersei was wrong.

I don't agree with people who thinks that Sansa is going to copy Cersei.

[Gregor Clegane's head]

I want Sansa to become like Olenna and NOT like Arianne or Cersei.

[Colonel Green]

TV!Olenna banged her husband into marrying her, so she's not really a great counter-example.

[1234567]

She's 18. It's time.

Sadly D&D do think this way. It could be that she is assaulted in the TV show but not in the books. D&D have mangled her character horribly and given the torture porn they have indulged in with Theon's character, I wouldn't be surprised. The Cersei rape scene (which they claim was misinterpreted) generated a lot of publicity for the show. They maybe doing the same here.

They could also be doing a take on her Wedding night which was traumatic and very much building up to rape until the end. Instead they could revise the scene having LF assaulting her but stopping short of raping her.

Personally I hope it is something else, or ST's usual disparity between interviews and what actually happens. It could be her reacting to news of Jon's death. He would be her last surviving family member and they could go yo town on her grieving for him.

[1234567]

TV!Olenna banged her husband into marrying her, so she's not really a great counter-example.

D&D version: it goes without saying. Actually I am dreading Dorne as it may end up being one large brothel.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Im terrified D and D are going to take away the complexity of Dorne and just make them all like the Martells. I really do not want a Why are the Daynes and Yronwoods white? Discussion. I feel even we get carried away with the liberal Rhyonar influence and ignore the more mainstream Westerosi Dornish.

[FreeParking]

As for Sansa not looking repulsed when he kissed her in the show, the screenstill from the scene (a different angle than the one they used in the episode) that can be found online (and has been linked on this forum a few times) shows Sophie Turner looking pretty repulsed. The fact that you don't know how Sansa is feeling during that scene on the show just shows that they are bad at conveying character's emotions and screw up in editing, because they were far more focused on Lysa seeing it and how it would affect the plot. If they had wanted to make it look like Sansa wasn't bothered by LF kissing her, they would have told Sophie to play it like that to begin with.

The stills are not necessarily from the take that they use. For instance, there is a still of Roose holding the Moat Cailin banner, which we didn't see in the show. I am inclined to think that the take they used for the kiss was not the same one when they took the picture.

[The Reckoner]

The time has come (and so has Littlefinger).

[Annara Snow]

The stills are not necessarily from the take that they use. For instance, there is a still of Roose holding the Moat Cailin banner, which we didn't see in the show. I am inclined to think that the take they used for the kiss was not the same one when they took the picture.

Does that matter? If the argument is "Sansa didn't look bothered by LF kissing her, so that proves the showrunners' intent to show that Sansa is OK with it" - it doesn't, because the reason we didn't see her looking bothered is because we didn't see her face at all! We didn't see her not-bothered either. But to prove that she was actually supposed to be OK with it in the show - which would be a big change from the book - you would have to have evidence that Sophie was instructed to look like she is OK with it. That screenstill proves the opposite. I'm pretty sure they don't tell actors: "Play it in three different ways, we'll decide in editing what, if anything, your character is supposed to be feeling in this situation."