Sophie Turner: traumatic scene

[GoldHandTheGood]

Sadly D&D do think this way. It could be that she is assaulted in the TV show but not in the books. D&D have mangled her character horribly and given the torture porn they have indulged in with Theon's character, I wouldn't be surprised. The Cersei rape scene (which they claim was misinterpreted) generated a lot of publicity for the show. They maybe doing the same here.

They could also be doing a take on her Wedding night which was traumatic and very much building up to rape until the end. Instead they could revise the scene having LF assaulting her but stopping short of raping her.

Personally I hope it is something else, or ST's usual disparity between interviews and what actually happens. It could be her reacting to news of Jon's death. He would be her last surviving family member and they could go yo town on her grieving for him.

I highly doubt it will be her reacting to Jon's death, considering she's barely mentioned the guy since season 1, if at all. I think some people need to accept, like with everything in this show, that it'll probably be something that'll offend them in some way, shape, or form. I foresee another shitstorm ala Cersei and Jaime in the sept.

[Annara Snow]

That could be where the books are going, so it might not necessarily lack imagination; it might actually be following the lead of the books to an extent. I know we've had Sophie say the show is deviating with her arc, but I'm dubious as to how much they actually are. For all we know this traumatic scene is the controversial for some chapter in Winds.

She didn't say that the show was deviating from her arc. She just mentioned "now that we're going off the books...", which probably referred to 1) the show generally deviating from the books, plus probably 2) the way season 4 Sansa arc deviated from AFFC in The Mountain and the Viper. Something similar happened when Liam Cunningham mentioning the show deviating from the books, which prompted some fans to misquote him and say that he said Davos' arc in season 5 was different from ADWD, which he never said.

In Sophie's case, it's especially unlikely that she's talking about Sansa's arc deviating from TWOW, since I'm pretty sure she has no clue what happens in TWOW.

[GoldHandTheGood]

She didn't say that the show was deviating from her arc. She just mentioned "now that we're going off the books...", which probably referred to 1) the show generally deviating from the books, plus probably 2) the way season 4 Sansa arc deviated from AFFC in The Mountain and the Viper. Something similar happened when Liam Cunningham mentioning the show deviating from the books, which prompted some fans to misquote him and say that he said Davos' arc in season 5 was different from ADWD, which he never said.

In Sophie's case, it's especially unlikely that she's talking about Sansa's arc deviating from TWOW, since I'm pretty sure she has no clue what happens in TWOW.

Ah I see, thanks for the correction! :)

I thought her knowing that would be strange. Therefore this scene could indeed be the controversial chapter for some in Winds, though who knows at this point.

[UtherSnow]

Where Sansa's arc takes her in S05 is beyond what we have read. Perhaps D&D have been included in GRRM's loop concerning WOW progress, such as potential story arcs. If they take any character we've all formed an attachment with on a journey that doesn't make sense when we read the next book, who will look stupid?

So, what was Sophie saying? Considering her parents watch the show, does anyone seriously think D&D would steer a script towards including a rape scene involving Sophie as Sansa? Like, her Dad's gonna be pleased to see that. Look at the forms of trauma Sansa's had so far in the books, and in the show. They're all based on emotional trauma, not all from physical events. They've already had the near rape earlier. Why repeat it?

I'd be more drawn to Sweetrobin's finale being in Sansa's arms. What would make it more traumatic, especially if no one on set was told, would be for LF to tell Sansa's done the deed as she's taken over giving the boy his lethal doses. Sansa has been trying to bond with Sweetrobin after all. Wouldn't that prove traumatic to Sansa?

LF dashes off to KL to deal with whatever it is he's gone there for. So, what happens to Sansa now? It'd be another time he's left her stranded after all. That would be a turning point for Sansa, perhaps even a breaking point.

Could this be the kind of thing to flip Sansa into Lady Stoneheart, perhaps? I'd be tempted to go with the idea of Brienne meeting Alayne. Podrick may say something to Brienne about resembling Sansa. It's all Brienne would need, she'd get new purpose being Alayne's protector, and keep part of her oath to Catelyn. Maybe they form the idea of Lady Stoneheart (without need of prosthetics), to hunt down Freys and Boltons.

You never know, maybe this 'super traumatic' scene, could it be the discovery of Catelyn's body? In the book, Catelyn's body had deteriorated a lot. That'd be really gruesome to look at. It has been known for drowned people to be discovered many miles away from their last sighting, even out to sea after last being seen far up-river.

[juanml82]

Where Sansa's arc takes her in S05 is beyond what we have read. Perhaps D&D have been included in GRRM's loop concerning WOW progress, such as potential story arcs. If they take any character we've all formed an attachment with on a journey that doesn't make sense when we read the next book, who will look stupid?

So, what was Sophie saying? Considering her parents watch the show, does anyone seriously think D&D would steer a script towards including a rape scene involving Sophie as Sansa? Like, her Dad's gonna be pleased to see that. Look at the forms of trauma Sansa's had so far in the books, and in the show. They're all based on emotional trauma, not all from physical events. They've already had the near rape earlier. Why repeat it?

I'd be more drawn to Sweetrobin's finale being in Sansa's arms. What would make it more traumatic, especially if no one on set was told, would be for LF to tell Sansa's done the deed as she's taken over giving the boy his lethal doses. Sansa has been trying to bond with Sweetrobin after all. Wouldn't that prove traumatic to Sansa?

LF dashes off to KL to deal with whatever it is he's gone there for. So, what happens to Sansa now? It'd be another time he's left her stranded after all. That would be a turning point for Sansa, perhaps even a breaking point.

Could this be the kind of thing to flip Sansa into Lady Stoneheart, perhaps? I'd be tempted to go with the idea of Brienne meeting Alayne. Podrick may say something to Brienne about resembling Sansa. It's all Brienne would need, she'd get new purpose being Alayne's protector, and keep part of her oath to Catelyn. Maybe they form the idea of Lady Stoneheart (without need of prosthetics), to hunt down Freys and Boltons.

You never know, maybe this 'super traumatic' scene, could it be the discovery of Catelyn's body? In the book, Catelyn's body had deteriorated a lot. That'd be really gruesome to look at. It has been known for drowned people to be discovered many miles away from their last sighting, even out to sea after last being seen far up-river.

D&D have read parts, or the entire, draft for TWOW and know where the story is going.

Sophie Turner is an actress. So, not only HBO money making machine won't stop at whatever concerns her parents may or may not have, but (as you say) she has already shot an attempted rape scene, which at the time she called "fun" and "her favorite scene to shoot". I don't think a similar rape scene would be traumatizing for the crew - it would have to be an intimate affair for it to work in such a way.

It's also not traumatic to Sansa. It's traumatic to the crew watching it being shot. Pod would recognize Sansa, so it wouldn't be about Alayne resembling Sansa but about a similar scene to Brienne and Arya. If Sansa orders Pod's death as a result, it might be traumatic, but for those empathizing with Pod, so I don't think it fits the scene Sophie Turner described. It doesn't look like something that feeds her as an actress. I might be wrong there, though.

As for seeing Catelyn's body, if that requires CGI, it wouldn't be seen on set, so I don't know how much traumatic it would be for the crew. IMHO, it has to be something that looks traumatic as seen like it is a theater play. No general context, not necessarily shocking, no CGI or post-production required, etc.

[FireAndBlood.]

So, what was Sophie saying? Considering her parents watch the show, does anyone seriously think D&D would steer a script towards including a rape scene involving Sophie as Sansa? Like, her Dad's gonna be pleased to see that.

Sophie Turner is 18. Why the hell would they care what her parents think? Why would they care what any of the adult cast member's parents think?

[Roose is Azor Ahai]

Sophie Turner is 18. Why the hell would they care what her parents think? Why would they care what any of the adult cast member's parents think?

Agreed. Why would they care if Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's parents are happy about the fact that he has an incestful relationship? They are actors, their parents have no reason to care what they do on set.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

No sexy Belle, I lost hope on that, sigh.

Perfect! :lol: I think Littlefinger is going to save her, he's going to be her knight, and save the day. He's such a good friend to her.

I'm not sure show!LF has in him to save anyone. He's such a bad master of manipulation. :lol: That one time where he let the only witness of his murder without any hint as to what to say. He might "kill" for her, though. They're the best of friends.

Y'all should really watch and read the recent featurette and interview where Michelle Clapton talks about the dress and what SHE says it means (both are linked in a WOTW article from a week or two ago IIRC. I believe it was linked in this thread too). You'll notice that MC, the one who designed the thing, doesn't mention it as being somehow evil. She relates it to Sansa finding independence and power and breaking away from her past in KL.

I imagine reading the real intent behind the design won't do much to slow the avalanche of hack jokes being made here (because they're an unstoppable force in this fandom sadly) BUT still, it is worth knowing what's what, innit?

Oh, I know exactly what she might have meant by the dress. I've watched that interview, as George's one about Sansa learning to play, probably a thousand times. The thing is, sometimes what someone says doesn't translate to the screen. Take Cersei's rape, for one. According to the director, Lena and Nikolaj, consensual. Could you say that from the scene?

Now, of course we know Sansa won't get dark magic training, but It's rather obvious that the change of wardrobe means a new Sansa, and any member that saw that scene didn't think it's about getting independence. It's very much a "Gone to the Dark Side" scene, with all the obvious tropes (Villains wear black, Master of Manipulation). And the thing is, Sansa DOES change her appearance, dying her hair dark and changing dresses in the books, but it's about surviving, not some sort of "manipulating LF's sexuality", which is what Sophie (Btw, love her) said it tried to convey. In short, the scene was one more moment of the writers having to tell us something by actually rubbing it on our faces, rather than letting good storytelling do it.

I don't dislike the scene entirely. I certainly like that Sansa's in charge, but by reducing both the characterization of books!Sansa and books!LF, the moment just doesn't pay off the same way. It might end up in the same ending, which I'm pretty sure, based on both the books and the show, that is Sansa becoming the political genius and a player, sure, but without the right construction of character, it just falls in a series of Tv!Tropes.

[Faceless Man Friday]

Its not really technical. Most people know how inheritance works. Like your mother in law doesnt get your dads estate or your wife doesnt get anything if your sister dies. Middletons arent members of the Royal family, they dont get titles because one of them married a Royal. Pippa Middleton is not in the line of succession. This stuff is well known, well at least in Britain but inheritance is similar in America there just are no titles beyond CEO.

I disagree. I am not talking about mothers-in-law, I am talking about a cousin. Cousins are blood relatives. I know we are not in the middle ages but most modern intestate laws would allow a cousin to inherit your estate if you have no living parents, siblings, aunts or uncles regardless if they are paternal or maternal cousins. The Rules of succession to the English Crown are different from inheritance laws and are presently codified. The show and books are based in a world whose laws appear to approximate the English Common Law from the Middle Ages when the law of primogeniture would normally control who would succeed to Royal and Noble titles. However primogeniture, which favors the male line over the female, did not always apply and the argument could always be made in the appropriate case the that competing legal principle of proximity of blood should take precedence. I believe that was the legal argument raised by supporters of Robert Baratheon in support of his claim to the Iron Throne, ie that he was the closest capable relative to the deceased King, even though he was a cousin through the female line. Similarly, according to the Show, but not the Books, Sansa would be the closest surviving relative of Robbin, even though she is a cousin through the female line. So it is not an impossibility that the show may make Sansa Robbins heir if the Show wanted to kill Robbin off. I also do not think the show would get bogged down in legalisms over succession, especially since the most convincing argument is who has the biggest armies and I can see the Vale rallying behind Sansa. I am not convinced that is the direction they may take and I am not sure if I even like it, but it does remain a possibility.

[Colonel Green]

I believe that was the legal argument raised by supporters of Robert Baratheon in support of his claim to the Iron Throne, ie that he was the closest capable relative to the deceased King, even though he was a cousin through the female line. Similarly, according to the Show, but not the Books, Sansa would be the closest surviving relative of Robbin, even though she is a cousin through the female line. So it is not an impossibility that the show may make Sansa Robbins heir if the Show wanted to kill Robbin off.

In Robert's case the female line was the royal line. It's not a case of "male vs. female", it's "in the line of succession" vs. "not in the line of succession".

[Beric175]

She thinks they're deviating because they are getting beyond sansa's book material. turner doesn't know what's in book 6 but D&D know the broad strokes and it all comes down to that 'controversial' Sansa chapter that's been mentioned here and there. if 'controversial' = LF sexually harrassing sansa then it's likely that the 'traumatic' scene could refer to that or maybe sansa just watches someone die in a horrible way and she is traumatised by that?

NB: I also disagree with the idea that the Theon stuff was torture porn. It was the bare minimum necessary to get around heavily expository dialogue in later seasons à la 'remember when I flayed your manhood, Reek?'

[TheHouseHB]

I think if Sansa is in Winterfell it is to vouch that the Arya that is marrying Ramsey is in fact Arya to the Northern lords. Which, would be traumatic for Sansa because she is betraying a childhood friend to be wedded to a known psychopath. Also, it would be traumatic because she has not seen Theon since he has been turned into Reek that would be a shock to her as well.

[Arkash]

With hints of a massive (in any way) Sansa scene coming ahead in both Winds and season 5, I safely assume it's the same one (with some variables of course, but fundamentaly the same). So I truly think we're gonna be spoiled in a lot of ways concerning Sansa's storyline in season 5.

But it's been such a while since we last had some new Sansa material that in wont bother me that much in the end.

[I'll pay the iron price]

I think it is something to do with euthanasia regarding Sweet Robin

[Rashtibram]

With hints of a massive (in any way) Sansa scene coming ahead in both Winds and season 5, I safely assume it's the same one (with some variables of course, but fundamentaly the same). So I truly think we're gonna be spoiled in a lot of ways concerning Sansa's storyline in season 5.

But it's been such a while since we last had some new Sansa material that in wont bother me that much in the end.

Agreed. A "traumatic scene" also suggests something that had some kind of emotional impact on the actor as well as the character, so coupled with Sophie's comments about how Sansa increasingly explores the power of her sexuality in the coming season, I'm betting on some kind of sexual violence between her and Littlefinger.

[Mr Fixit]

I disagree. I am not talking about mothers-in-law, I am talking about a cousin. Cousins are blood relatives. I know we are not in the middle ages but most modern intestate laws would allow a cousin to inherit your estate if you have no living parents, siblings, aunts or uncles regardless if they are paternal or maternal cousins. The Rules of succession to the English Crown are different from inheritance laws and are presently codified. The show and books are based in a world whose laws appear to approximate the English Common Law from the Middle Ages when the law of primogeniture would normally control who would succeed to Royal and Noble titles. However primogeniture, which favors the male line over the female, did not always apply and the argument could always be made in the appropriate case the that competing legal principle of proximity of blood should take precedence. I believe that was the legal argument raised by supporters of Robert Baratheon in support of his claim to the Iron Throne, ie that he was the closest capable relative to the deceased King, even though he was a cousin through the female line. Similarly, according to the Show, but not the Books, Sansa would be the closest surviving relative of Robbin, even though she is a cousin through the female line. So it is not an impossibility that the show may make Sansa Robbins heir if the Show wanted to kill Robbin off. I also do not think the show would get bogged down in legalisms over succession, especially since the most convincing argument is who has the biggest armies and I can see the Vale rallying behind Sansa. I am not convinced that is the direction they may take and I am not sure if I even like it, but it does remain a possibility.

Worth noting that in the books Cat even proposed to make a distant Royce cousin (it was a Royce, wasn't it?) Robb's heir. Sansa is a closer relative than that with regards to little Robert. Of course, when one strays this far off the beaten path in matters of succession, there are usually no clear answers. The claimant with the strongest support (or army) will find himself at the top.

So yeah, Sansa as the ruler of the Vale isn't out of the realm of possibility. It's an interesting idea.

[Colonel Green]

Worth noting that in the books Cat even proposed to make a distant Royce cousin (it was a Royce, wasn't it?) Robb's heir. Sansa is a closer relative than that with regards to little Robert.

That Royce cousin was a Stark blood claimant.

Admittedly, if you want to bring in TWOIAF, Sansa would have Arryn blood via Lorra Royce, but one rather doubts that will be brought up.

[Mr Fixit]

That Royce cousin was a Stark blood claimant.

True, though there are all kinds of precedents out there. In the end, having friends in all the right places is often more important than blood.

And there are the curious cases of Ladies Hornwood and Dustin. Does anyone know why they rule(d) their respective domains after their husbands' deaths? Shouldn't the lordships have passed to the closest blood relatives? I'm still unclear on this issue.

[Oathbreaker_89]

Its not gonna be a rape scene. Sansa will willingly consent to baelishs advances so she can use his lust/affection against him one day. Sansa is finally learning to play the game....and remember what cersei told "the most dangerous weapon is the one between ur legs" shes gonna use baelishs feelings toward her to get the upper hand on him....why...im not sure yet. But wouldn't that scenario be more shocking than a rape scene?? Sansa sacrifices her virginity to get the upper hand on baelish.

[Le Cygne]

Because Cersei has been presented in the story as such a wise lady... and one would be wise to listen to Cersei... ???

I'm not sure show!LF has in him to save anyone. He's such a bad master of manipulation. :lol: That one time where he let the only witness of his murder without any hint as to what to say.

The man without a plan!

With hints of a massive (in any way) Sansa scene coming ahead in both Winds and season 5, I safely assume it's the same one (with some variables of course, but fundamentaly the same).

Here's the wording:

I'm pretty sure what I said was that I thought the chapter might be controversial in some quarters of the fandom. I guess that means it could well be controversial. But, who knows, my assessment might be wrong.