The CIA Brutally Tortured and Murdered Captives for No Reason: The Thread

[Shryke]

So the report it out. Kinda.

We have a ridiculously long summary of an even more ridiculously long 6000 page Senate report on the CIA and torture.

Links:

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/12/politics/torture-report/

http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/study2014/sscistudy1.pdf

The conclusion?

About what you'd expect.

The CIA tortured a ton of people in horrible, stomach-turning fashion for no benefit and no real reason then lied about it at every level so they could keep doing it.

A summary of the summary's summary here:

#1: The CIA's use of its enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of

acquiring intelligence or gaining cooperation from detainees.

#2: The CIA's justification for the use of its enhanced interrogation techniques rested on

inaccurate claims of their effectiveness.

#3: The interrogations of CIA detainees were brutal and far worse than the CIA

represented to policymakers and others.

#4: The conditions of confinement for CIA detainees were harsher than the CIA had

represented to policymakers and others.

#5: The CIA repeatedly provided inaccurate information to the Department ofJustice,

impeding a proper legal analysis of the CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program.

#6: The CIA has actively avoided or impeded congressional oversight of the program

#7: The CIA impeded effective White House oversight and decision-making.

#8: The CIA's operation and management of the program complicated, and in some cases

impeded, the national security missions of other Executive Branch agencies.

#9; The CIA impeded oversight by the CIA's Office of Inspector General.

#10: The CIA coordinated the release of classified information to the media, including

inaccurate information concerning the effectiveness of the CIA's enhanced interrogation

techniques.

#11: The CIA was unprepared as it began operating its Detention and Interrogation

Program more than six months after being granted detention authorities.

#12: The CIA's management and operation of its Detention and Interrogation Program

was deeply flawed throughout the program's duration, particularly so in 2002 and early

2003.

#13: Two contract psychologists devised the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques and

played a central role in the operation, assessments, and management of the CIA's

Detention and Interrogation Program. By 2005, the CIA had overwhelmingly outsourced

operations related to the program.

#14: CIA detainees were subjected to coercive interrogation techniques that had not been

approved by the Department of Justice or had not been authorized by CIA Headquarters.

#15: The CIA did not conduct a comprehensive or accurate accounting of the number of

individuals it detained, and held individuals who did not meet the legal standard for

detention. The CIA's claims about the number of detainees held and subjected to its

enhanced Interrogation techniques were inaccurate.

#16: The CIA failed to adequately evaluate the effectiveness of its enhanced interrogation

techniques.

#17: The CIA rarely reprimanded or held personnel accountable for serious and

significant violations, inappropriate activities, and systemic and individual management

failures.

#18: The CIA marginalized and ignored numerous internal critiques, criticisms, and

objections concerning the operation and management of the CIA's Detention and

Interrogation Program.

#19; The CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program was inherently unsustainable and

had effectively ended by 2006 due to unauthorized press disclosures, reduced cooperation

from other nations, and legal and oversight concerns.

#20; The CIA's Detention and Interrogation Program damaged the United States'

standing in the world, and resulted in other significant monetary and non-monetary costs

The reaction from the people who pushed this shit in the first place (the american right) has been about what you'd expect. A combination of being proud of what the CIA did while complaining that no one should have released the information because knowing about what they are proud happened is dangerous for americans.

Read, hurl and discuss. Or, I guess more likely, immediately jump in with an opinion on the issue without reading anything.

[YellowDogJen]

WARNING: HERE THERE BE CURSING.

I'm not surprised, of course. Enough stuff came out during the war that I knew it was a cluster-fuck and that the US was spiriting people away and torturing them. I'm disgusted and horrified, sure, but mostly I'm angry as fuck because of the inhumanity of it, because my tax dollars paid for it, and because torture is fucking un-American as hell and that fuckhead Bush and all his cronies got away with it and will get away with it.

Man, as readers, we have some strong imaginations and the horror of what was done - arrgh. It's awful. And we probably don't know the half of the extent of it.

God, I hate that asshole Bush. I don't hate people, as a rule, but I hate him. I hope to live long enough to piss on his grave. I can go on for hours about the hate I have for what he's done. Fucking un-American son of a bitch. (And he literally is! Hah!)

A lot of Americans are so fucking stupid.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

So, who was arrested, awaiting trial in Den Haag? Oh, wait...

[The Mountain That Flies]

None of the report is really a surprise, though the snippets I've had time to read are still difficult. Ultimately, the conclusion that none of these horrible practices actually helped us (I'm American) and have only inflamed our problems is where the real kicker is. We have gained nothing for our sins but more problems.

[Spockydog]

The whole thing is terribly depressing. Another nail in the coffin of the myth that America is some kind of shining beacon that the rest of the world should aspire to.

[IheartIheartTesla]

I am ok with everyone involved in this being prosecuted for war crimes.

The fact that one prisoner died as a result of this makes my stomach churn. The forms of interrogation that approximate rape are little worse. The threats against the inmates children and mother are chilling.

And of course, none of this has any basis in solid science, borrowed heavily from Nazi techniques and gave little to none of valuable intel.

[Spockydog]

I am ok with everyone involved in this being prosecuted for war crimes.

Ain't never gonna happen. Why do you think the US Government refuses to recognise the authority of the International Criminal Court?

[felice]

Ultimately, the conclusion that none of these horrible practices actually helped us... is where the real kicker is.

It really, really isn't. The idea that there could ever be any conceivable justification for those practises is a huge part of the problem.

[Xray the Enforcer]

The whole thing is just unspeakably horrible and depressing and, frankly, thoroughly disgusting. Sanctioned rape and murder -- I hope the perpetrators spend the rest of their miserable lives in jail.

[Jslay427]

I mean, torture is inhumane without a doubt. But so was flying a couple of planes into the world trade. I was under the illusion that since we are the 'good guys' we were better than this. My question is whether other world power governments would allow this if in a similar situation as the US was/is.

[The guy from the Vale]

Ain't never gonna happen. Why do you think the US Government refuses to recognise the authority of the International Criminal Court?

The US still ratified the Geneva Convention Against Torture - and the president signing it was a certain Ronald Raegan. So let me quote the Patron Saint of the US right wing:

“Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution.”

[The Notorious]

The neocons from 2002 and 2006 has really captured the CIA, leading to this and the rush to invade Iraq.

Torturing does not work, yet they keep trying it for 4 years .............. should had spent more resources and energy on beefing up the surveillance apparatus where is is much more effective.

[The guy from the Vale]

The neocons from 2002 and 2006 has really captured the CIA, leading to this and the rush to invade Iraq.

Torturing does not work, yet they keep trying it for 4 years .............. should had spent more resources and energy on beefing up the surveillance apparatus where is is much more effective.

I don't think the surveillance apparatus and the torture regime can really be separated. Both are two sides of the same coin. My country sadly has a lot of experience with that connection.

[The Notorious]

I disagree. Nobody got raped or killed during nsa sweep of meta data.

[The Mance]

I disagree. Nobody got raped or killed during nsa sweep of meta data.

Not during, no. But still, potentially, because of.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Historically, those two activities have been highly correlated.

[The guy from the Vale]

No. But both are the result of an illiberal, anti-democratic thinking that seeks to control people's minds. The main problem of the StaSi wasn't just that it was looking for dissidents, but that it discouraged any discussion of policy between citizens for fear of being imprisoned. The GeStaPo was a rather small force of bureaucrats, but it relied on people spying on each other and reporting to them, leading to the same result. Surveillance leads to self-imposed censorship. It is the antithesis to an open and free society.

There are different ways of gaining information than mass surveillance. They are usually more than good enough, far less expensive, and do not corrode the principles of liberal democracy.

ETA: What The Mance said, too.

[The Notorious]

Not during, no. But still, potentially, because of.

I disagree. It's a different decision process. We are talking about two very different methods of Intel gathering here.

[The guy from the Vale]

Again, two methods that have very strong historical correlation. Both treat people as guilty until proven innocent, both try to control the minds of people, and both corrode the fundament of a democratic society.

[The Notorious]

Yeah I fundamentally disagree with all you claim above but I understand the sentiment.