The Cultural Influences in Planetos

[Reginald blackfield]

Has nobody noticed the parallel between Leng and Taiwan? Both were former colonies of Yi Ti/China and their settlers are the largest ethnicity on the island, the native Lengii are the native austronesian people's on Taiwan.

Some other ideas:

Sarnor: Aksum

Iron Islands: Norse Kingdom of Mann and the isles

Ghiscari: Arabs, the ancient empire is a parallel to Nabataea, conquered by the Romans, the new ghiscari kingdoms Are the Arab caliphates. Like the Ghiscari the Nabataeans spoke a different language (Aramaic) to later inhabitants of the region

Jogos Nhai: Huns, cranial deformation

The shrinking sea: The Aral Sea

Norvos: None, but the religion has paralls with Sikhism

Lys: Malta or the Balearic Islands

Volantis: Constantinople

Braavos: Venice, Rhodes

Pentos: France

Ibbenese: Neanderthals, very similar appearence, both have a different appeaarence to other humans but are of average intelligence, however unlike the Ibbenese the Neanderthals could breed with other Humans, and most Europeans supposedly have Neanderthal descent.

Hyrkoon: The Amazons of Greek Mythology

Dothraki: Altaic people (Excluding Japanese and Koreans)

Zamettar: Carthage

Summer islanders: west Africa, also Indonesia on account of their architecture

Sothoryos: Africa and South america, geographically Africa, culturally both, ecologically South america.

[Ocelot]

Has nobody noticed the parallel between Leng and Taiwan? Both were former colonies of Yi Ti/China and their settlers are the largest ethnicity on the island, the native Lengii are the native austronesian people's on Taiwan.

Some other ideas:

Sarnor: Aksum

Iron Islands: Norse Kingdom of Mann and the isles

Ghiscari: Arabs, the ancient empire is a parallel to Nabataea, conquered by the Romans, the new ghiscari kingdoms Are the Arab caliphates. Like the Ghiscari the Nabataeans spoke a different language (Aramaic) to later inhabitants of the region

Jogos Nhai: Huns, cranial deformation

The shrinking sea: The Aral Sea

Norvos: None, but the religion has paralls with Sikhism

Lys: Malta or the Balearic Islands

Volantis: Constantinople

Braavos: Venice, Rhodes

Pentos: France

Ibbenese: Neanderthals, very similar appearence, both have a different appeaarence to other humans but are of average intelligence, however unlike the Ibbenese the Neanderthals could breed with other Humans, and most Europeans supposedly have Neanderthal descent.

Hyrkoon: The Amazons of Greek Mythology

Dothraki: Altaic people (Excluding Japanese and Koreans)

Zamettar: Carthage

Summer islanders: west Africa, also Indonesia on account of their architecture

Sothoryos: Africa and South america, geographically Africa, culturally both, ecologically South america.

What similarites do you see b/w Norvoshi religion & Sikhism? Come to think of it, do we know anything about Norvoshi theology? And I really don't see any similarities b/w Pentos & France. France never had city-states (indeed, in the early modern era it became the first true nation-state), it was never a slave society (at least after the Romans left), its economy was based on agriculture, not trade. However, the illustrations of Summer Island temples in TWoiAF do look quite like the old Hindu temples of Indonesia. I know a little about the ancient African kingdom of Aksum--what similarities do you see w/ Sarnor?

[Reginald blackfield]

Norvoshi priests cannot shave their hair, seemingly a dumbed down version of Sikhs not being able to shave theirs. Pentos is France due to its close proximity to westeros, (Britain), also Pentos alone represents the whole of France not several of the free cities. Aksum like Sarnor reached its downfall due to a neighbouring civilisation, Dothraki/Arabs. However neither civilisations actually destroyed them, just severely weakened them, However the downfall of Aksum was much more economic than that of sarnor.

[Reginald blackfield]

(I already posted this topic on the regular forum but this one has some info from WOIAF) So I thought a cool topic would be to talk about the different cultural influences in the world of Ice and Fire. I know this thread has probably been done but I would really like to put my view out there.

Westeros

The North: Many people on the Internet believe the north to be based off of medieval Russian or Scandinavia. I however believe that it has many similarities to Celtic culture. For example many of the prominent mythological elements in north culture (such as the Children of the Forest) are based of the Fae. He takes a lot of the events that happened in the medieval Celtic nations [scotland, Ireland, Cornwall, Wales, the Isle of Man and Brittany (region of France)] and translated it into Northern History. It may in some ways resemble medieval Scandinavia yet I feel as if GRRM took most of his inspiration from the medieval celtic nations.

The Iron Islands: This one is easy, I believe GRRM actually said in one of his interviews that he based the Iron Islanders off of the Norse (or Scandinavian or Vikings if you prefer). They have many obvious similarities: they are not an agrarian society, they have a very maritime based society and they terrorized an entire continent for the better part of a century. Even the Kraken, the sigil of house Greyjoy, is based off of the Kraken of Norse Mythology.

The Riverlands: Now this is harder, when getting into the southern areas of Westeros I find GRRM liked to mix up a lot of the medieval european countries. In the Riverlands however I believe that medieval England is most prominent. I base this mainly of the fact that it still has many culturally northern/celtic aspects it is much different, and England much like the Riverlands were attacked by the Iron islanders/Norsemen. That isn't to say that there aren't any english aspects in any of the other regions

The Vale, Westerlands, Reach, Crownlands, and Stormlands: This is where GRRM really decided just to mix medieval Europe all up. Germany, France, Italy, and England all together. One could argue that the Reach is more French than anything else but personally I don't really care all that much. The Stormlands, and the Vale have a more anglo-germanic essence in my mind, while the Westerlands is purely culture, and the Crownlands an mixture of Italy, France, and England (not so much German)

Dorne: Dorne, in my mind at least, resembles Spain. Located in the southern part of each of the continents both Spain and Dorne were "conquered by foreign invaders, taking many of their customs and integrating them into their own culture. Both Dorne and Spain have had many feuds with northern kingdoms like France/Reach.

North of the Wall: I feel like north of the wall is a mixture of Inuit, Celtic, and somewhat Scandinavian, and even less Siberian (not Russian). The climate of north of the wall really dictates several of the cultures GRRM uses for this. He still keeps with the Celtic culture because the cultures of the North, and North of the Wall are similar. However I do believe that there is more Inuit, Scandinavian, and Siberian evident than in the North.

Essos

Valyria: Before I dive into the vast cultural expansion of Essos, I want to touch on the one of the major i building blocks of Essos. Valyria is an accumulation of Eastern and Western Cultures. The Main Cultures I seem to find when trying to figure out what civilizations best represent Valyria, are Rome and Greece, first and foremost. Valyria, much like Rome (and somewhat like Greece) is a large empire and made several advances in technology, however I don't think that Greece and Rome alone describe Valyria. Valyria also resembles medieval european cultures, we know that the Valyrian steel swords resemble those being used centuries later in the seven kingdoms. Valyria is a mixture of Rome, Greece, and medieval Europe aswell as fantasy elements the GRRM decided to put in.

The Free Cities: I think the Free cities (except for Braavos) most represent the warring city-states of ancient Greece. It doesn't matter which is which only that they have similar tactics, advanced technology, and no central government. However I think Valyria was really the one that seemed the most greek, now I would say they are really the most indistinct mixture of Greece, Rome, Byzantium, Ottoman empire, and Persia.

Slavers Bay: Slavers bay, much like the Free cities are very hard to identify. I would say that it would be much like the Free Cities (Greek, Roman, Byzantine, Persian, and Ottoman) but a little different, much like Egypt, medieval India, or evenChina. However overall the difference between them and the Free Cities is slight.

Dothraki: Many say that the Dothraki are said to be solely based upon the Mongol empire, however the mongols were well armored and the dothraki are described as wearing little to no armor. No doubt that they do have many similarities but I would also factor in cultures such early Egyptian, Hittite, or even some native american tribes such as the Lakota, Sioux, Comanche, and Apache. The Weapon of choice for the Dothraki: the arakh (as depicted on the show) is very similar to both the Hittite and Egyptian Kopesh swords. Others say that the Dothraki resemble Huns however this also doesn't make very much sense. The huns, much like the Mongols wore Lamalar armor, much heavier and constricting than the painted vests of the Dothraki. I'm an not saying that the dothraki do not resemble both Hun and Mongol culture but the Hittite, Lakota, Sioux, Comanche, and even the Apache.

Braavos: Nearly every description I've done so far has talked about a mixture of cultures, in Braavos it is the most indistinct of all. Many compare Braavos to Venice, I would agree that it resemble venice but also it has hints of Mongolia, Greek, Ottoman and Roman. Overall however Braavos represents a colder, and less inviting Venice.

Yi Ti: Many speculate that Yi Ti is based on ancient China, and seeing how little info. we have on it I guess I would agree. I think that south-east asian and Indian culture is also visable in the little we heard about Yi Ti. So southern China is the best bet on where it's culture may have derived from.

Asshai: In this rare instance I think GRRM decided to completely create a culture that was just pure Fantasy. I do not believe Asshai actually has any counterpart in the real world.

Others

The Summer Islands: I would have to say the major influences I think GRRM used would be that of the Chiefdoms of Hawaii, Maori, and central african tribes such as the Zande. The forest environment and islands are very reminiscent of the environment found in Hawaii, and New Zealand. Many of the weapons GRRM described are likely based on the war clubs of the Maori and Zande. The Adversity towards slavery is also reminiscent of the Zande.

Ibben: Much like the Wildlings the Ibbeneese culture resembles Inuit, and Siberian culture. They are known as whalers much like the Inuits and often carry axes. Because of the lack of info. I cannot further progress my opinion.

Feel free to include parts of the world I didn't touch on and feel free to post about your disagreement with me.

Mongolian influence on Braavos?

[TheSovereignGrave]

Norvoshi priests cannot shave their hair, seemingly a dumbed down version of Sikhs not being able to shave theirs. Pentos is France due to its close proximity to westeros, (Britain), also Pentos alone represents the whole of France not several of the free cities. Aksum like Sarnor reached its downfall due to a neighbouring civilisation, Dothraki/Arabs. However neither civilisations actually destroyed them, just severely weakened them, However the downfall of Aksum was much more economic than that of sarnor.

I don't see any parallels between the Norvoshi religion and Sikhism at all. Norvoshi priests do not shave, but all he other Norvoshi do. In fact, the priests are the only ones allowed beards; freemen wear only mustaches and slaves/woman shave off all their body hair. Plus the Norvoshi priests practice ritual flagellation, while Sikhism (if my memory serves correctly) explicitly forbids such rituals.

[Reginald blackfield]

That was really it, flagellation seems more in line with dissident medieval churches, in retrospective it is really a mixture of several religions, and speaking of religions:

The Old Gods: Animism, To a lesser extent germanic and celtic mythology although they featured defined pantheons.

The faith of the seven: Roman Catholicism, however it is much more tolerant of other faiths than the medieval Catholic Church was, there is no inquisition, burning old gods worshippers at the stake.

Rh'llor: Theologically it represents Zoroastrianism, Martin confirmed this. But in a historical context it seems to represent Protestantism.

The God of death: the Baha'i faith, the state there is one God only but all other Gods are incarnations of him.

[Baela of Pentos]

Night's Watch, not a cultural influence for Asoiaf but there is one in late 18th century Australia, actually consisted of convicts:

http://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/discover_collections/history_nation/justice/police/index.html

[Maester Mando]

Religions:

Old gods-animistic religions

Faith of the seven-catholicism

Drowned god-viking/norse religions

R'hllor-zoroastrianism

[TheSovereignGrave]

Religions:

Old gods-animistic religions

Faith of the seven-catholicism

Drowned god-viking/norse religions

R'hllor-zoroastrianism

The Ironborn are certainly based on Vikings with most of the pleasant parts removed, but I don't really see any parallels religion-wise.

[Reginald blackfield]

I now see a parallel between the people of Hyrkoon and several ancient Iranian peoples, as stated before, the idea of Warrior women is clearly based on the Amazons of Greek mythology. Many historians identify the Amazons with the Scythian's, an Iranian nomadic civilisation inhabiting the Eurasian steppe from Ukraine to Mongolia. The suffix -abad, as in Bayasabhad is of Persian origin, it is unknown whether this was intended by GRRM or if this is pure coincidence.

[Jon Snoww]

Well, the whole thing is complicated a bit, because Westeros is both the British Isles (in terms of politics, reputation, etc.) and Continental Western Europe (in terms of climates and various cultures) which is why Dorne can be both Wales and Moorish Spain, and how the "Roman" Valyrians can be Norman conquerors.

I get that the Free Cities are Italian city-states, but are there any good one-to-one match ups? (Besides Braavos-Venice, I mean)

Well I think Rome itself resembles old Valyria but otherwise no.

[HeWhoMustNotBeUsernamed]

I've been hearing more and more people suggest that Braavos is, in some small way, New York. What with the giant statue, the home for refugees, the theaters and acting troupes, the center of international commerce...

Even I think it's a bit of a stretch (but then again, why do all the parallels have to be medieval?) but it's pretty funny to note.

[Bluetiger]

Titan of Braavos - Colos of Rhodos

Arsenal - Shipyards of Rome and Carthage

City on islands connected by bridges - Venice , Amsterdam , Petersburg

Iron Bank - Venice's merchants and bankers

[Reginald blackfield]

I've been hearing more and more people suggest that Braavos is, in some small way, New York. What with the giant statue, the home for refugees, the theaters and acting troupes, the center of international commerce...

Even I think it's a bit of a stretch (but then again, why do all the parallels have to be medieval?) but it's pretty funny to note.

I never thought of that before, whoever made that made a good link.

[HeWhoMustNotBeUsernamed]

Any thoughts as to the Lhazarene being Nepalese gurkhas? A stretch I know, but:

-Peaceful community of shepherds (eh, farmers, what's the difference)

-Have (at least one) badass fighters in the Red Lamb

That's pretty much it.

[Reginald blackfield]

Any thoughts as to the Lhazarene being Nepalese gurkhas? A stretch I know, but:

-Peaceful community of shepherds (eh, farmers, what's the difference)

-Have (at least one) badass fighters in the Red Lamb

That's pretty much it.

I always thought Lhazar sounded like Lhasa in Tibet, it's near enough to Nepal.

[TheSovereignGrave]

Since Yi Ti seems like china, then asshai could be something like Japan

I don't think so. Really the only connection I see there is that they're geographically close.

I always thought Lhazar sounded like Lhasa in Tibet, it's near enough to Nepal.

Any thoughts as to the Lhazarene being Nepalese gurkhas? A stretch I know, but:

-Peaceful community of shepherds (eh, farmers, what's the difference)

-Have (at least one) badass fighters in the Red Lamb

That's pretty much it.

Honestly I've seen something of a connection between the Lhazareen beliefs and Christianity. They believe in a single God who from what little we've heard seems to be somewhat benevolent (all people are one flock and all that stuff). Plus there's the fact that their God is a Shepherd, which I believe fits in with some depictions of Christ as 'the good Shepherd'. And Lhazar's not particularly mountainous; just hilly if I recall correctly.

[HeWhoMustNotBeUsernamed]

Since Yi Ti seems like china, then asshai could be something like Japan

Could be.

Personally my bet is on Asshai=Persia, if only because of the Zoroastrian-R'hllrism connection. Don't know too much about Persia, so can't say what that will say about Asshai'i culture.

[HeWhoMustNotBeUsernamed]

I don't think so. Really the only connection I see there is that they're geographically close.

Honestly I've seen something of a connection between the Lhazareen beliefs and Christianity. They believe in a single God who from what little we've heard seems to be somewhat benevolent (all people are one flock and all that stuff). Plus there's the fact that their God is a Shepherd, which I believe fits in with some depictions of Christ as 'the good Shepherd'. And Lhazar's not particularly mountainous; just hilly if I recall correctly.

Good points.

I assumed that the people of Andalos were meant to be the Israelis, what with inventing the dominant Western religion, but we didn't really spend any time with them (assuming they're distinct from Rhoynish folk, that is).

And Nepal isn't really known for sheep (not that a tweaking the culture would be impossible for GRRM)

[TheSovereignGrave]

Good points.

I assumed that the people of Andalos were meant to be the Israelis, what with inventing the dominant Western religion, but we didn't really spend any time with them (assuming they're distinct from Rhoynish folk, that is).

And Nepal isn't really known for sheep (not that a tweaking the culture would be impossible for GRRM)

Huh? The Andals are completely distinct from the Rhoynar; they were two completely different societies and cultures and the people don't even look the same.