Why did Jaime and Tyrion get along?

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

As we all know, Jaime Lannister isn't and never was a paragon of kindness and decency.

Yet he outclassed both his sister and father in kindness, in how he got along with Tyrion.

Im sure he sometimes teased him or whatever, but he alone seems to have liked or really wasn't ashamed of being related to him at all. Why would that be? Is he just less of a spoiled brat than Cersei, or wasn't quite as close to Joanna?

[C.T. Phipps]

Jaime Lannister loves his family.

Jaime didn't become a complete ass, either, until the Kingslayer business. Then he just became arrogant and cruel to people outside the family.

Tyrion was never cruel or treated him poorly.

It was Cersei and Tywin who loathed Tyrion.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Jaime Lannister loves his family.

Jaime didn't become a complete ass, either, until the Kingslayer business.

Then he just became arrogant and cruel to people outside the family.

Tyrion was never cruel or treated him poorly.

IMO Jaime was utterly justified being a Kingslayer. If he had not, all of Kings Landing would have been burnt to a crisp. Killing Aerys probably was the most decisive thing that prevented that from happening

[C.T. Phipps]

IMO Jaime was utterly justified being a Kingslayer. If he had not, all of Kings Landing would have been burnt to a crisp. Killing Aerys probably was the most decisive thing that prevented that from happening

Jaime was caught in the proverbial rock and a hard place as nothing he could have said at that point wouldn't have sounded like self-justification given his father was sacking the city.

Ned might have understood if Jaime tried but believed this was all a plan by Tywin and Jaime didn't correct him.

But Jaime, who IS arrogant and hates being treated like scum, proceeded to become the monster people called him.

It wasn't the Kingslayer business which made him evil but everything he did thereafter.

[Lord Lannister]

I never got way Jaime just didn't tell the truth of why he killed Aerys.

Ned: You killed the king you swore to protect Kingslayer.

Jaime: He was going to burn everyone to death.

Ned: Oh, I didn't know. That must have been a hard choice. Good job.

[C.T. Phipps]

I never got way Jaime just didn't tell the truth of why he killed Aerys.

Ned: You killed the king you swore to protect Kingslayer.

Jaime: He was going to burn everyone to death.

Ned: Oh, I didn't know. That must have been a hard choice. Good job.

Well, it's sort of like the Freys and the Red Wedding.

"They totally became werewolves and attacked us."

Which, we know, is entirely possible! The Stark children have all the power of warging.

But is completely insane to everyone else.

[DavosBolton]

As we all know, Jaime Lannister isn't and never was a paragon of kindness and decency.

Yet he outclassed both his sister and father in kindness, in how he got along with Tyrion.

Im sure he sometimes teased him or whatever, but he alone seems to have liked or really wasn't ashamed of being related to him at all. Why would that be? Is he just less of a spoiled brat than Cersei, or wasn't quite as close to Joanna?

It seems like ALL the other Lannisters except Tywin and Cersei treated Tyrion with love and respect.

Jaime, Kevan, Tygett, Gerion and Genna all loved and encouraged Tyrion.

[markg171]

Maybe he felt bad for lying about Tysha

[Dofs]

Imo, but in his nature, deep inside, Jaime is a kind and decent man and him treating Tyrion so well, like buying toys, horses, protecting him etc. shows that. He became an ass after the kingslaying, when everyone around him started to resent him and surely for Jaime, who dreamed to become Arthur Dayne, that was very hard to deal with. So in years he became a cynic who tried to not give a fuck about anything, except for his precious Cersei (and him becoming an ass can certainly be credited to her influence as well) and his other family members, who did not start to resent and hate him. If you look closely into his interactions with Brienne before losing his hand, you would notice that his mocking of her is reactive - Brienne actually started to offend him first and continued to do so until they got captured by Vargo Hoat. Jaime actually tried to make up with her but Brienne continued to offend him and this resulted into Jaime attacking her. That was basically the way it was for Jaime on the bigger scale as well - him being an ass was a reaction to people's opinions about him.

[John Doe]

Imo, but in his nature, deep inside, Jaime is a kind and decent man and him treating Tyrion so well, like buying toys, horses, protecting him etc. shows that. He became an ass after the kingslaying, when everyone around him started to resent him and surely for Jaime, who dreamed to become Arthur Dayne, that was very hard to deal with. So in years he became a cynic who tried to not give a fuck about anything, except for his precious Cersei (and him becoming an ass can certainly be credited to her influence as well) and his other family members, who did not start to resent and hate him. If you look closely into his interactions with Brienne before losing his hand, you would notice that his mocking of her is reactive - Brienne actually started to offend him first and continued to do so until they got captured by Vargo Hoat. Jaime actually tried to make up with her but Brienne continued to offend him and this resulted into Jaime attacking her. That was basically the way it was for Jaime on the bigger scale as well - him being an ass was a reaction to people's opinions about him.

Well put.

[Cubarey]

Okay, besides the incest thing and pushing Brandon out the window how is Jaime ever evil or even morally bad? He killed the Madking because he knew he had to do it, he also knew that telling people what the Madking had planned would not help him as he had no real proof and the charge would seem simply self-serving. He becomes jaded, after that but not evil (except the pushing Brandon out the window bit and even thee he he acts gibbly but he knows the act is not moral).

[C.T. Phipps]

Okay, besides the incest thing and pushing Brandon out the window how is Jaime ever evil or even morally bad? He killed the Madking because he knew he had to do it, he also knew that telling people what the Madking had planned would not help him as he had no real proof and the charge would seem simply self-serving. He becomes jaded, after that but not evil (except the pushing Brandon out the window bit and even thee he he acts gibbly but he knows the act is not moral).

The Brandon and incest bit is pretty damn evil.

[markg171]

I feel like in the books, the more that you learn about him, and the more you get his perspective on things, the more you realize he's been forced to play this mummer's farce of being this cold hearted arrogant bastard. You naturally come to like him.

Whereas in the show, they're trying to force that on us. Subtle changes like the switch from "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" when Roose kills Robb, to "The Lannisters send their regards" are specifically designed in the show to try and make Jaime more likeable. Whereas while reading the book, you realize he's just saying what's expected of him.

Jaime telling Edmure he'll catapult his children into the walls of Riverrun is him playing the part he's been forced to. Jaime smashing Red Ronnet across the face for shaming Brienne is the real Jaime, and the one he always wanted to be.

[James Arryn]

There's a lot of interesting room for discussion here, but I'll just start with this observation.

Both are strongly influenced by both cynicism and romanticism, but in opposing ways.

Tyrion's romanticism affects what he expects from others, but his cynicism informs his expectations of himself. He lies with relative ease, and is talented at deception and intrigue because he doesn't normally hold himself to any particular moral codes that could transcend his survival instinct. But for a man with that kind of cynicism and life experience, he is quite capable of expecting the unrealistic and/or unprecedented from others; Shae, Bronn, Tywin, etc.

Jaime's romanticism affects what he expects from himself and to a degree his twin, but no one else. Little if anything surprises him in other people, and he has almost no faith in anything outside of what he can control. But on the other hand he has romantic expectations of himself. He almost never lies (and on the occasions he does it was under extraordinary pressure and still really seems to bother him) and in spite of a lot of scorn people have for him, most others seem to recognize this in him; Bran's murder is almost immediately acknowledged as not his work because if he had wanted it done, he'd have done it himself, for example.

He repeatedly offers direct, come-out-into-the-open-with-blades-bared solutions to Cersei's dilemmas, and while she seems to enjoy the deception aspect, for Jsime that seems to be the greatest/only part of it he hates. He is used to being misunderstood and never goes out of his way to correct it, but he almost never actively deceives, and when it won't cost his family is capable of shocking honesty in very disadvantageous situations.

The only seeming reason for this behaviour is the still deeply imbedded romantic yearning to be another Arthur Dayne, an expectation he holds for no one beside himself; there is only me.

I think each sees these reflections in the other, with mixtures of admiration and sadness/sympathy.

There's a lot more; both feel constrained and suffocated by Tywin's perception of them/their role, both are intelligent, both are interested in history, both have a certain amount of contempt for the reactions their physical appearance inspires in others, both are monogamous when in love, both are interested in strategy and the motivations of others, both their POV's are pretty constantly sardonic, even/especially in crisis, and both show an ability to see value in some people that most others miss, probably starting with each other.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Jaime never told anyone about Aerys' plan because the Kingsguard keeps the King's secrets.

Yeah... I know.

[ummester]

There's a lot of interesting room for discussion here, but I'll just start with this observation.

Both are strongly influenced by both cynicism and romanticism, but in opposing ways.

Tyrion's romanticism affects what he expects from others, but his cynicism informs his expectations of himself. He lies with relative ease, and is talented at deception and intrigue because he doesn't normally hold himself to any particular moral codes that could transcend his survival instinct. But for a man with that kind of cynicism and life experience, he is quite capable of expecting the unrealistic and/or unprecedented from others; Shae, Bronn, Tywin, etc.

Jaime's romanticism affects what he expects from himself and to a degree his twin, but no one else. Little if anything surprises him, and he has almost no faith in anything outside of what he can control. But on the other hand he has romantic expectations if himself. He almost never lies, and on the occasions he does it was under extraordinary pressure and still really seems to bother him, and in spite of a lot of scorn people have for him, most others seem to recognize this in him; Bran's murder is almost immediately acknowledged as not his work because if he had wanted it done, he'd have done it himself. He repeatedly offers direct, come out into the open with blades bared solutions to Cersei's dilemmas. He is used to being misunderstood and never goes out of his way to correct it, but he almost never actively deceives, and when it won't cost his family is capable of shocking honesty in very disadvantageous situations. The only seeming reason for this is his still imbedded Dayne-idolizing romantic sense of right and wrong as it applies to himself alone.

I think each sees these reflections in the other, with mixtures of admiration and sadness/sympathy.

There's a lot more; both feel constrained and suffocated by Tywin's perception of them/their role, both are intelligent, both are interested in history, both have a certain amount of contempt for the reactions their physical appearance inspires in others, both are monogamous when in love, both are interested in strategy and the motivations of others, both their POV's are pretty constantly sardonic, even/especially in crisis, and both show an ability to see value in some people that most others miss, probably starting with each other.

Agree with most - but Jamie isn't that intelligent. Doesn't make him a bad person but Jamie is not a character I think of in a similar way to Tyrion, LF, Varys, Doran, Arriane etc in the thinking department.

[Mal Malenkirk]

It's perfectly natural to love your brother and feel protective of him, it doesn't really need to be justified. It's just natural instinct not being overruled by some oher concerns. Now speaking of natural instinct misfiring... wanting to fuck your sister, that is a bit more usual and could use investigating. ;)

And a very insightful by James Arryn, kudos.

[James Arryn]

Agree with most - but Jamie isn't that intelligent. Doesn't make him a bad person but Jamie is not a character I think of in a similar way to Tyrion, LF, Varys, Doran, Arriane etc in the thinking department.

I think he is very intelligent, I just think he's underdeveloped. But his inner-thoughts, insights and observations during his Riverlands chapters are as sharp as any we've seen. He doesn't seem to miss a thing, pegs everyone's character almost immediately and adopts differing methods of persuasion with every person he encounters, and only with the BF does he not get what he wants...and even he saw that as a longshot.

Edit: belatedly realizing I'm breaking my general rule of not arguing about my favourite characters because that's where I least trust my objectivity, so I should add that my perceptions is definitely biased, though in fact his flowering intellect is probably the reason he became my favourite chracter.

[Mal Malenkirk]

Agree with most - but Jamie isn't that intelligent. Doesn't make him a bad person but Jamie is not a character I think of in a similar way to Tyrion, LF, Varys, Doran, Arriane etc in the thinking department.

Oh, he's well above average and certainly can stand the comparison to Arianne if you are gonna make it.

In particular he is good at judging people. Tyrion himself in his POV has on a few occasions informed his opionions of people at court based on Jaime's off-hand assessments he would have shared in the past (in his Hand of the King chapters), for example. And the way he solved the stalemate at Riverrun by playing Edmure is pretty damn clever if you ask me.

Cured of his recklessness as he seems to be, he's gonna be very dangerous.

[John Doe]

Agree with most - but Jamie isn't that intelligent. Doesn't make him a bad person but Jamie is not a character I think of in a similar way to Tyrion, LF, Varys, Doran, Arriane etc in the thinking department.

He's pretty smart. Not on par with Varys, LF, and probably Tyrion, but still above average.