Sympathy for House Frey

[WTF's a Lommy]

Okay, so I know the Freys are probably the most hated house in all the land and for good reason. But people seem to forget that they were betrayed by Robb, who they had been nothing but loyal to. Robb broke a sacred vow and cast them aside dishonoring and disrespecting them. Then Robb had the audacity/stupidity to actually go back and ask them for help. I can't blame them for being pissed at him and letting the world know their family was not to be used as a doormat. It was also painfully obvious at that point that the Lannisters were going to win. So why not side with the winner over the house that dishonored you? I still don't like them but I just can't think of them as a demonic house of traitors like everyone else seems to. Am I the only one who feels this way?

[WTF's a Lommy]

Sorry about the re-post, thought the first one didn't go through.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Not all Freys were in on the betrayal...but enough of the "higher ups" were...and the North will slowly get their revenge and the North Remembers.

[TallTyrion]

Common mistake, the mods will delete the duplicate.

In terms of the OP, yes the Freys had a legitimate grudge against Robb Stark. That, however, doesn't justify slaughtering him and all his men at dinner. Guest right is serious business in this world.

[SeanF]

. Am I the only one who feels this way?

More or less.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Rat Cook.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Okay, so I know the Freys are probably the most hated house in all the land and for good reason. But people seem to forget that they were betrayed by Robb, who they had been nothing but loyal to.

Do they? Really? Can you maybe back that bold deliberate lie unique view with an example or two?

[Hrulj]

Double post

[Aemond's Eye]

Nobody forgets that Robb had broken his word to marry a Frey - part of the reason he was there was to attempt to make amends. Edmure was marrying Roslin as part of these attempts. So no. Robb breaking his word during justify the slaughter of Robb and his bannermen, especially when he was there, partly, to try to make amends.

[Hrulj]

I support them. I was very glad when Red Wedding hapened. Starks went from blunder to blunder, all of which could have been prevented if they thought about someone else other than themselves.

[TheHouseHB]

I will feel sympathy for them when they all are baked into Frey pies. Even then my sympathy will be limited.

[Mithras]

From the way it seems, Freys are by far the least likely House to go extinct with kazillions of them infesting the Realm. However, George likes his ironies.

[Lord_Pepsi_Cupps]

Some sympathy - there's hardly a worse way to slight a house than to do what Robb did. Particularly to a house with a history of being looked down upon.

It doesn't justify the red wedding of course.

[Bryanfury]

Its not betrayal to break a betrothal. I mean ffs, Robb wasn't even betrothed to a specific person, so technically it wasn't even a broken betrothal, but a broken promise (to marry a granddaughter). Also, the agreement was for the heir to the North to marry a Frey girl, not for the King in the North to do so, so the Freys should have been more than happy to marry into the lord of the Riverlands in exchange. To pretend that the Frey reaction wasn't absurdly overboard, and driven by political pressure just as much as self-perceived personal slights (if not more so), is almost as crazy as the Red Wedding itself

Also we can probably list a hundred ways to slight a house worse than a broken promise to marry. This is literally on the lower end of the "how to insult a house" scale

[Hrulj]

Its not betrayal to break a betrothal. I mean ffs, Robb wasn't even betrothed to a specific person, so technically it wasn't even a broken betrothal, but a broken promise (to marry a granddaughter). Also, the agreement was for the heir to the North to marry a Frey girl, not for the King in the North to do so, so the Freys should have been more than happy to marry into the lord of the Riverlands in exchange. To pretend that the Frey reaction wasn't absurdly overboard, and driven by political pressure just as much as self-perceived personal slights (if not more so), is almost as crazy as the Red Wedding itself

It is a betrayal. He already took his benefit that came from the bethrodal, which is crossing the bridge. He accepted, swore upon Gods that he will accept and fullfil what he promised, and then backed out once he got what he wanted.

[Lord Sapna]

I support them. I was very glad when Red Wedding hapened. Starks went from blunder to blunder, all of which could have been prevented if they thought about someone else other than themselves.

While I wouldn't go as far as to say I support them. Robb had it coming.

The Freys were stuck in a hard place really. They had already fought for Robb before he went and married a random western girl. If the lannisters won they might not be to happy about that. At best they lose some land, at worst they lose their heads with varying degrees in between them. So just staying out isn't an option.

Think of where the twins are. Right at the bottom of Robbs kingdom. By marrying a Frey to him they can count on Robbs support in an attack, well without one of his daughters influencing robb, would Walder be able to count on robb to call his banners every time a southern army attacks the twins. Probably not.

Alternatively of course they could declare support for the realm and denounce robb as king of the north and trident. Honerable yes, but stupid, they would be in wolfs territory and Robbs army would crush them.

So the red wedding happened.

If you look at the other turncloak acts in the series they are not so bloody. Ben plumm leaves dany but without violence just like mance leaves the watch, but Walder had more to lose and less options.

I still think the guys a cunt though.

[Fat Mac]

I just hope the Frey kids survive. They don't deserve death for the douchebaggery of their elders.

Needless to say, blind hatred for the Freys is robbing a lot of fans of some of the most interesting characters in the series. Black Walder, Lame Lothar and Walder Rivers are all cool characters, though they might be despicable as people.

[Lord_Pepsi_Cupps]

Its not betrayal to break a betrothal. I mean ffs, Robb wasn't even betrothed to a specific person, so technically it wasn't even a broken betrothal, but a broken promise (to marry a granddaughter). Also, the agreement was for the heir to the North to marry a Frey girl, not for the King in the North to do so, so the Freys should have been more than happy to marry into the lord of the Riverlands in exchange. To pretend that the Frey reaction wasn't absurdly overboard, and driven by political pressure just as much as self-perceived personal slights (if not more so), is almost as crazy as the Red Wedding itself

Also we can probably list a hundred ways to slight a house worse than a broken promise to marry. This is literally on the lower end of the "how to insult a house" scale

Which is why Lyonel Baratheon (the Laughin Storm) wanted to rebel when Aegon V's son ditched his daughter for Jenny of Oldstones? The only way to appease Baratheon was for Duncan to give up his claim to the crown, for Aegon V's daughter to marry Baratheon's son AND Duncan the Tall also fought him in single combat.

Completely not a big deal...

[Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark]

Robb was blackmailed into accepting the bethrotal by Walder Frey. He had to relieve Riverrun, because he needed Full Strength of North and Riverlands to threaten the crown. After he broke that promise and married Jeyne, it was the Freys who came with the second marriage proposal to Riverrun, not the other way round. So basically that asshole bastard Walder lured Robb and his army, in the name of marriage and then slaughtered them. Those fucking bastards get no sympathy fro me.

[Lord Lannister]

By sheer laws of percentages all the Freys are unlikely to be douches.