Melisandre's Agenda ?

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I've been reading the novels again and I'm on Dance With Dragons Dreams & Dust. Its a Tyrion point of view chapter where they're in Volantis. Every 4 out of 5 people there are slaves and they have tattoos.

When Tyrion & Haldon hear a Red Priest speaking they stop to hear what he's saying. It would seem that the followers of the Red God in Volantis believe that its Dany that is Azor Ahai come again, that she is the fulfillment of an ancient prophecy and that she is the prince that was promised.

So....if that's the case, why is Melisandre's point of view so different than all of the other followers of R'hllor? Does anyone have any theories on what her agenda truly is? She must know what they're saying in Volantis. Why did she really come and proclaim that Stannis is Azor Ahai come again. She has to know that Light Bringer should have heat. Why is she creating this lie that she must know she cannot maintain? Is her true agenda Jon Snow? If it is, there must have been an easier way to get to him.

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on this. Is she really a sorceress or is she just good at tricks and glamours? Is it really possible that she is right and everyone else is wrong? The woman is a mystery to me and I cannot figure out what it is she really wants. I can't believe its good, but I can't prove its not either.

[SeanF]

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on this. 1. Is she really a sorceress or is she just good at tricks and glamours? 2. Is it really possible that she is right and everyone else is wrong? The woman is a mystery to me and I cannot figure out what it is she really wants. I can't believe its good, but I can't prove its not either.

1. Yes. We've seen her birth shadow assassins, kill a warg with a thought, take no ill-effects from drinking poison, live without taking food or water, enhance her lifespan way beyond its natural length, glamour Mance Rayder as Rattleshirt, accurately predict the deaths of three kings, and three rangers etc.

But, she's not infallible. We see her make mistakes, and she pretends to have knowledge which she doesn't possess. And, magic is also agonising for her, so she does resort to powders and parlour tricks at times.

2. Most readers think she's misinterpreted the Azhor Ahai prophecy and that it isn't Stannis. We can't know at this stage whether it is Jon Snow, (although Melisandre's point of view hints at this), or Dany (as the Red Priests of Volantis believ).

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I'm not convinced she drank the poison. That could have been a trick. Maybe she just happened to see what Cressen was up to and knew how to counteract the effects of the poison.

Davos is the only one who "saw" her birth the shadow assassin. She accurately predicted the death of 3 kings, that's true, she did that. Why, then the ruse about Light Bringer? If she knows the truth of it, why the illusions? This is what doesn't make sense to me, she seems to know and the acts against her own knowledge. I'm very much looking forward to finding out what her true agenda is. I was hoping more people have a point of view on this.

[SeanF]

I'm not convinced she drank the poison. That could have been a trick. Maybe she just happened to see what Cressen was up to and knew how to counteract the effects of the poison.

Davos is the only one who "saw" her birth the shadow assassin. She accurately predicted the death of 3 kings, that's true, she did that. Why, then the ruse about Light Bringer? If she knows the truth of it, why the illusions? This is what doesn't make sense to me, she seems to know and the acts against her own knowledge. I'm very much looking forward to finding out what her true agenda is. I was hoping more people have a point of view on this.

I think one should assume that she really did drink the wine. Her own POV suggests she needs neither food nor drink to survive any more and has to remember to occasionally eat and drink so as not to spook people. Poison would have no effect on her. Either she's died, and been revived as a wight, or her magical experiments have completely transformed her metabolism.

As to why she resorts to trickery, I'd suggest it's because she's prone to wishful thinking. Having invested so much in Stannis being Azhor Ahai reborn, she wants to force the prophecy to come true.

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I have actually thought she was dead before myself. There are people who say that there are no female Others. I'm not so sure of this. There are definitely female wights so why couldn't there be female Others. If she is one, then, it would be really odd. She seems the embodiment of fire and the Others of ice.

[SnowHeart]

If she's a sorceress, are we assuming that if she were to die, then her magic and glamours would die with her?

I've just got this image of Stannis stabbing her with lightbringer and the flames being extinguished when she dies, Kind of like a reverse prophecy thing.

[Snark_Tamer]

The surviving poison trick reminded me a lot of Dread Pirate Roberts in Princess Bride--taking small doses of certain poisons defensively so the body doesn't respond as if it's a poison when someone does it. I think she may have something she does (potion or magic) that wards her against poisons.

I see her as really having magic and sight, but not being all that great at interpretation. I'm NOT convinced she knows what the Red Priests in Essos are saying (or that she would believe if she heard) as she's been with Stannis since before all that started. But I think if she heard it all now, she has had too many hints about Jon to change paths. Her position 'supporting Stannis' places her in a position to help Jon--she has to know Jon would not let her help him if she tried to be more direct--he has thus far refused any attempts to push him into non-wall politics.

[sj4iy]

Melisandre's ego is what sets her apart. She believes that she is the Lord's chosen vessel, the one who will find AAR and help him win the battle against the darkness. She may be right, too...but the problem is that instead of reading the truth of what she has seen, she has let her own opinion bias her interpretations of the visions.

I don't believe for one second that she realizes the fraud she is perpetrating...she truly believes in her abilities and that what she has done was proper.

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Actually, I just read this post and it just is staggering! All about Melisandre. You guys should read it too!

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96824-sbm-mel-the-red-star-bleeding-melony-seastar-part-2-has-been-added-on-pg9/

[aryagonnakill#2]

I'm of the opinion she is similar to Beric. We see that she is very single minded and that seems to be the case with both Beric and Uncat. She also does not eat,sleep, or drink like a living person. The shadowbabies also makes me think she is dead. As far as passing the sword off as lightbringer, she actually explains this to us in both the book and the show. She explains how she uses her powders to make people see what are essentially illusions, and that these illusions give a presentation of power that people can see and believe in. She then states that tho this is a lie, it is a lie to make people see the truth. So basically she is so convinced that Stannis is AA and that she has to help him defeat the Others, that she will do anything to convince other people of this, including faking a sword. In her mind, she probably expects Stanns to acquire the real lightbringer at some point.

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If she's a sorceress, are we assuming that if she were to die, then her magic and glamours would die with her?

I've just got this image of Stannis stabbing her with lightbringer and the flames being extinguished when she dies, Kind of like a reverse prophecy thing.

I don't think Stannis has Light Bringer. Maester Aemon didn't think so either. The passage from the Jade Compendium fairly well proves it, but he also has Sam describe it for him and there is no heat. It burns, it shines, but its fire has no heat. In itself, I think that proves that whatever sword it is that Stannis has, it is not LB.

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I'm of the opinion she is similar to Beric. We see that she is very single minded and that seems to be the case with both Beric and Uncat. She also does not eat,sleep, or drink like a living person. The shadowbabies also makes me think she is dead. As far as passing the sword off as lightbringer, she actually explains this to us in both the book and the show. She explains how she uses her powders to make people see what are essentially illusions, and that these illusions give a presentation of power that people can see and believe in. She then states that tho this is a lie, it is a lie to make people see the truth. So basically she is so convinced that Stannis is AA and that she has to help him defeat the Others, that she will do anything to convince other people of this, including faking a sword. In her mind, she probably expects Stanns to acquire the real lightbringer at some point.

You're speaking of that scene when she gets out of the bath when she's speaking with Selyse? I just posted a link to someone else's post about Melisandre that is really amazing. Take a look at it.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^That's a good thread and I think its a good theory but her identity doesn't really explain her agenda so I'm not sure its that relevant to this thread. Her identity is shaped much more by her being a slave and then raised in the red temple of Ashai than it is about her having Targ bastards as parents.

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^That's a good thread and I think its a good theory but her identity doesn't really explain her agenda so I'm not sure its that relevant to this thread. Her identity is shaped much more by her being a slave and then raised in the red temple of Ashai than it is about her having Targ bastards as parents.

It explains that Melisandre herself may not realize fully who she is and how powerfully she may play into her own agenda without even realizing it. I didn't mean to detract from my own thread, I just wanted to give other people the benefit of someone else's pov. I appreciate everyone's opinions here.

[Lord Lannister]

The woman is a mystery to me and I cannot figure out what it is she really wants. I can't believe its good, but I can't prove its not either.

This pretty much sums up Melisandre. Even her POV chapter didn't give that much insight into what makes her tick. She didn't show up on Stannis' doorstep out of selfless devotion to him that's for certain. She seems to recognize the Others are the bad guys so to say, but I'm not entirely sure that R'hlor is on the side of angels as it were either.

[aryagonnakill#2]

^Lol, I hadn't noticed it was your thread. I personally just don't see how her parents can really effect her, I mean she either never knew them or barely knew her mother. I guess there's the whole kingsblood thing, but how would Mel even find out who her parents are? Also, considering her blood is black it may not be useful for anything.

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^Lol, I hadn't noticed it was your thread. I personally just don't see how her parents can really effect her, I mean she either never knew them or barely knew her mother. I guess there's the whole kingsblood thing, but how would Mel even find out who her parents are? Also, considering her blood is black it may not be useful for anything.

Lol, I'm such a standout! NOT! Anyway, she is one of the most intriguing and mysterious people (or creatures) in the series. Anything I can find out about her interests me and I really want to know what other people think of her and what she's really up to. I thought the part of her being the bleeding star with the association of her parents being Bloodraven and Sheira Seastar was pretty thought provoking. If she is the real bleeding star then it bodes really well for Jon being "reborn" as Azor Ahai. I think.....I will never say I know until I read the last page of the last book. Even then, I have a feeling we'll all be speculating about what all of it means for years to come.

[The Drunkard]

Many a priest and priestess before her had been brought down by false visions, by seeing what they wished to see instead of what the Lord of Light had sent.

She sincerely thinks her powers are gifts from R'hllor.

Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R'hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.

She sincerely thinks Stannis is Azor Ahai, R'hllor's champion, and that he has to save the world.

Since reading her sample chapter I've never had any reason to doubt her intentions. Her agenda seems to be exactly what she says it is: she wants to help Stannis stop the apocalypse. Her methods are less up front.

I tend to think that her being the best in her order at reading the flames is the reason she's correctly identified the Others as the main threat, even if her hero is wrong. Benerro seems to think Dany is Azor Ahai, which could be true, but seems oblivious to the Others, focused more on the Triarchs living behind the Black Wall.

[Batbob45]

I think some of her trick are Mysterio like illusions like her glamor (Shadow binding and her fire projective power is one of the few that is not an illusion).

it seem that she is a siren type charactor(saffron) that use her wiles not unlike Cersei for gain.

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Many a priest and priestess before her had been brought down by false visions, by seeing what they wished to see instead of what the Lord of Light had sent.

She sincerely thinks her powers are gifts from R'hllor.

Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R'hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.

She sincerely thinks Stannis is Azor Ahai, R'hllor's champion, and that he has to save the world.

Since reading her sample chapter I've never had any reason to doubt her intentions. Her agenda seems to be exactly what she says it is: she wants to help Stannis stop the apocalypse. Her methods are less up front.

I tend to think that her being the best in her order at reading the flames is the reason she's correctly identified the Others as the main threat, even if her hero is wrong. Benerro seems to think Dany is Azor Ahai, which could be true, but seems oblivious to the Others, focused more on the Triarchs living behind the Black Wall.

Wasn't it Davos who brought the Others to Stannis and Melisandre's attention through a message brought by a raven from the Wall? Before that it seemed like Dany was trying to help Stannis win the Iron Throne.