Melisandre's Agenda ?

[Mrs.Grumpy]

For the last time, she survived the poison thanks to her necklace.

She is a sorceress...? Like do we need to confirm this? She birthed a freaking shadow. You cant do this with cheap tricks!? Yes she makes mistakes sometimes but I think she is really good at magic.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

For the last time, she survived the poison thanks to her necklace.

She is a sorceress...? Like do we need to confirm this? She birthed a freaking shadow. You cant do this with cheap tricks!? Yes she makes mistakes sometimes but I think she is really good at magic.

For the last time? I've never asked, nor seen this question before. Not all of us have been here since before the Wall was built. I don't like you either.

[The Drunkard]

Wasn't it Davos who brought the Others to Stannis and Melisandre's attention through a message brought by a raven from the Wall? Before that it seemed like Dany was trying to help Stannis win the Iron Throne.

The letter Davos read only had information about the wildlings and Mance, but regardless I think it's very unlikely they weren't already aware of the Others in some capacity. The connection between the Others and the Great Other would be hard to miss, the Others are a common legend who, like the Great Other, are associated with ice and darkness, the expression "the Others take [something]" is fairly prevalent and Stannis himself uses it, and Stannis had that vision about men in black fighting frozen things in the snow before ASOS begins. Plus, when they arrive they already have their own nomenclature for the Others and plans to stop them, so I tend to think they were aware, even if Davos didn't play a role in their plans (I don't think he ever even acknowledges the Others or the apocalypse, other than acknowledging that Stannis believes it).

Melisandre was trying to help Stannis win the IT, but seemingly as a means to an end given Stannis' comment about "winning the throne to save the kingdom". The throne and all the politics associated with it didn't interest her whatsoever during ASOS:

There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

A Storm of Swords is pretty far along. I remember her saying these things. I don't think that letter only referenced wildings and Mance, but I would need to check again. You've obviously been here much longer than I and I will respect that. I come here to learn things I don't already know, and if I am wrong I am wrong. I appreciate your comment and taking the time to make it. Thank you.

[SeanF]

Wasn't it Davos who brought the Others to Stannis and Melisandre's attention through a message brought by a raven from the Wall? Before that it seemed like Dany was trying to help Stannis win the Iron Throne.

Melisandre showed Stannis the vision of the Fight at the Fist of the First Men. She also told the Lords and knights who serve Stannis that the fight for Westeros is not "the true battle.". Her and Stannis' original plan was to take the Iron Throne, in order to fight the Others.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Melisandre showed Stannis the vision of the Fight at the Fist of the First Men. She also told the Lords and knights who serve Stannis that the fight for Westeros is not "the true battle.". Her and Stannis' original plan was to take the Iron Throne, in order to fight the Others.

I see a vision of me reading the whole series once again. *sighs*

[Lord Coldhands]

My opinion on it is that she is confused. She came to Stannis because he lives on Dragonstone, and so she believes that he is AAR because she thinks Stannis will make the dragons that are made of stone in the castle will come to life at Stannis' hand. She must not have heard about how Dany got her dragons when she left, and she either has not heard of it or doesn't believe it. That's my theory.

[Faint]

Why would she know what the prevailing view is on Volantis? That movement is a recent occurrence begot by Daenerys birthing dragons. Melisandre has been relatively isolated from news coming out of Essos, first at Dragonstone, then at the Wall, over the last several years. It is not clear whether she even knows of the existence of Daenerys, much less the movement that has sprung up around her.

As for her agenda, we know what her agenda is, we have read through her point-of-view. She is trying to save the world. She is Martin's twisted and contorted version of Gandalf -- only far more entertaining.

[The Drunkard]

A Storm of Swords is pretty far along. I remember her saying these things. I don't think that letter only referenced wildings and Mance, but I would need to check again. You've obviously been here much longer than I and I will respect that. I come here to learn things I don't already know, and if I am wrong I am wrong. I appreciate your comment and taking the time to make it. Thank you.

No worries. I'd definitely read the chapters before trusting me at my word though, heh. Davos III and V are where he chats with Melisandre and first reads the letter, incidentally.

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

I'm very undecided as far as whether or not Melisandre leans toward the "good" side or not. The Edric Storm thing (and probably Shireen on the show--I can't think why else they'd make such changes to the mother/daughter relationship she has with Selyse unless it pertains to this somehow) showed her true colors and I feel like we aren't supposed to forget that. She is bad news.

What gives me pause on condemning her completely though are her attitudes toward Jon and to a lesser extent Davos. She warned Jon, she tried to give him advice, and she even gets along with Ghost and encourages Jon to keep his direwolf with him. With Davos we've seen that she actually cares about his feelings and is actually doing what she can to keep one of his kids safe. She doesn't seem to have anything to gain from this act of kindness so this was a moment with her that stood out to me. There's also her past as a slave--how can she not be seen as sympathetic with that sort of backstory?

Still though, her overall intolerance, her penchant for burning people, her deceptive and duplicitous nature--surely there's something awful lurking underneath it all and I don't just mean her appearance.

Isn't it odd and a little unsettling that her powers are stronger on the Wall? The cold doesn't bother her the way it bothers normal people.

One crackpot theory that I like is that Melisandre is the Female Other who ruled with the Night's King. I'm not sure if this makes Stannis the NK 2.0 but I feel like some of the signs are there.

[Faint]

What, saving the Night's Watch at Castle Black from utter annihilation does not count?

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

What, saving the Night's Watch at Castle Black from utter annihilation does not count?

I'm not sure where you're coming from on this or why the hostility? I am a Stannis fan. I'm wondering what Melisandre's all about. Hence the title of the post.

[Faint]

I'm not sure where you're coming from on this or why the hostility? I am a Stannis fan. I'm wondering what Melisandre's all about. Hence the title of the post.

No, I was referencing the post above mine, with respect to her good deeds. I think her saving the Night's Watch stands many pegs above trying to keep Devan Seaworth alive.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

I'm very undecided as far as whether or not Melisandre leans toward the "good" side or not. The Edric Storm thing (and probably Shireen on the show--I can't think why else they'd make such changes to the mother/daughter relationship she has with Selyse unless it pertains to this somehow) showed her true colors and I feel like we aren't supposed to forget that. She is bad news.

What gives me pause on condemning her completely though are her attitudes toward Jon and to a lesser extent Davos. She warned Jon, she tried to give him advice, and she even gets along with Ghost and encourages Jon to keep his direwolf with him. With Davos we've seen that she actually cares about his feelings and is actually doing what she can to keep one of his kids safe. She doesn't seem to have anything to gain from this act of kindness so this was a moment with her that stood out to me. There's also her past as a slave--how can she not be seen as sympathetic with that sort of backstory?

Still though, her overall intolerance, her penchant for burning people, her deceptive and duplicitous nature--surely there's something awful lurking underneath it all and I don't just mean her appearance.

Isn't it odd and a little unsettling that her powers are stronger on the Wall? The cold doesn't bother her the way it bothers normal people.

One crackpot theory that I like is that Melisandre is the Female Other who ruled with the Night's King. I'm not sure if this makes Stannis the NK 2.0 but I feel like some of the signs are there.

Yeah, it is odd that her powers are stronger at the Wall. Maybe that's one of the reasons she wanted to go there. She's always warm which is odd if you're thinking she's the female that ruled with the Night's King. Odd theory. Interesting though, very interesting.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

My opinion on it is that she is confused. She came to Stannis because he lives on Dragonstone, and so she believes that he is AAR because she thinks Stannis will make the dragons that are made of stone in the castle will come to life at Stannis' hand. She must not have heard about how Dany got her dragons when she left, and she either has not heard of it or doesn't believe it. That's my theory.

It didn't occur to me that she hadn't heard about Dany or her Dragons. That seems hard to believe to me that she would be out of touch with Volantis but its not like they have mass communication.

[SeanF]

I'm very undecided as far as whether or not Melisandre leans toward the "good" side or not. The Edric Storm thing (and probably Shireen on the show--I can't think why else they'd make such changes to the mother/daughter relationship she has with Selyse unless it pertains to this somehow) showed her true colors and I feel like we aren't supposed to forget that. She is bad news.

What gives me pause on condemning her completely though are her attitudes toward Jon and to a lesser extent Davos. She warned Jon, she tried to give him advice, and she even gets along with Ghost and encourages Jon to keep his direwolf with him. With Davos we've seen that she actually cares about his feelings and is actually doing what she can to keep one of his kids safe. She doesn't seem to have anything to gain from this act of kindness so this was a moment with her that stood out to me. There's also her past as a slave--how can she not be seen as sympathetic with that sort of backstory?

Still though, her overall intolerance, her penchant for burning people, her deceptive and duplicitous nature--surely there's something awful lurking underneath it all and I don't just mean her appearance.

Isn't it odd and a little unsettling that her powers are stronger on the Wall? The cold doesn't bother her the way it bothers normal people.

One crackpot theory that I like is that Melisandre is the Female Other who ruled with the Night's King. I'm not sure if this makes Stannis the NK 2.0 but I feel like some of the signs are there.

I imagine that the most dreadful things have been done by her, and to her, in her past.

She's performed human sacrifice, and learned the dark arts in Asshai. She was sold into slavery as a child, and made to work as a prostitute. Shadowbinders reputedly mate with demons and beasts, which, as a slave, she may have had no choice in.

[Jon Ahai Targeryan]

its pretty simple really,Mel believes AA is tPtwP.In westeros,the legitimate king after Robert was supposed to be Stannis.So put one plus one together,Mel believes AA is Stanis since he is the rightfull heir to Roberts throne.She came to westeros knowing that the WW had began to make their move hence the king of Westeros coukd the fight against them.In westeros she must have heard if the rumors about the twincest hence supported the next in line,its not like she couldnt kill Joefrey later and instal Stannis as the king but the War of 5 Kings drove her plan to hell.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

No, I was referencing the post above mine, with respect to her good deeds. I think her saving the Night's Watch stands many pegs above trying to keep Devan Seaworth alive.

All I can do is apologize. I didn't realize that. I'm very sorry.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

its pretty simple really,Mel believes AA is tPtwP.In westeros,the legitimate king after Robert was supposed to be Stannis.So put one plus one together,Mel believes AA is Stanis since he is the rightfull heir to Roberts throne.She came to westeros knowing that the WW had began to make their move hence the king of Westeros coukd the fight against them.In westeros she must have heard if the rumors about the twincest hence supported the next in line,its not like she couldnt kill Joefrey later and instal Stannis as the king but the War of 5 Kings drove her plan to hell.

I'd like to believe all of her intentions are good, but I'm just not feeling it. You have a great take on it though! Thank you!

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

Saving Castle Black was in the best interest for Stannis and his cause. It isn't that I don't give her credit it's that to me this isn't necessarily an example of a surprising act of kindness that doesn't seem to have any obvious motive. I just don't see what she gets out of protecting Devan so I'm inclined to take her for her word that she simply felt that Davos had suffered enough. Would the average evil person really give a damn about the feelings a someone they know has worked against them in the past?

So yeah, it's a small thing but it felt significant to me and made me want to reevaluate her as a character.

Oh the female Other hing is totally crackpot, I admit. As far as her body being warm, can't this just be chalked up to magic?

Has Jon ever touched her skin before? I know they've walked arm in arm but I wonder if her body is actually warm to the touch. I also recall something about her radiating heat and maybe even melting any snow or ice she happened to be standing on. Melisandre is the only character who has this effect so to me it suggests that she's doing something extra and it may even be tied into the glamour.

Do any of the other Red Priests radiate heat the way that she does? I want to say no but I'm not sure.I don't recall Tyrion or Victarion making mention of it with Moqorro. I don't recall that for Thoros either.

Could some of the magic she does make her feel intense pain because she is an Other?