Pecnut Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 How else could he, Ned and a couple of other men defeat 3 of the finest Kingsguard ever known in the seven kingdoms??? All the other men died but Eddard and Howland survived? How could The Sword of the Morning fall just like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzochris01 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I reckon you're right. Either that or he baffled Dayne with net and spear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamba12 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Crannogmen are known for poison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well, it wasn't just a couple other guys. It was 7vs3 and 6 of 7 of those were knights and lords who had trained their entire lives and presumably were not taken to the TOJ for their pleasant company. However, that aside it is still a decent possibility that he tried to warg him causing Arthur some serious confusion/dementia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I believe that GRRM included the scene with Meera Reed ensnaring Bran's direwolf Summer with a net to illustrate that Crannogmen use unconventional methods in battle. This information is enough to explain how Howland Reed helped Ned overcome Arthur Dane at The Tower of Joy. I don't think the use of magic is necessary to explain the defeat of the Sword of the Morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Um, it's called the magic of numbers. 7 vs 3. That's more than a two-one advantage. I don't care how good a knight you are, it's difficult to survive two or three weapons coming at you at once from different directions. That those three Kingsguard knights killed five out of the seven pretty much demonstrates how good you are, and Ned and company were no slouches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 He frog-ed him. http://i.imgur.com/TPuwpX7.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 1 - Gerold was possibly very old by then so all three King's guard were not necessarily super elite like Dayne. These guys serve for life. Doesn't mean that they are the best for life! Not everyone is like Barristan or Bernard Hopkins, by their 40s most warriors have lost a few steps... 2 - For some bizarre reason (honor?!) the King's guard let Ned's men walk right up to them and corner them against the wall of the Tower of Joy. If you have some experience in hand to hand combat, you know that this is not ideal... It's hard to fight effectively against the ropes. 3 - And really, 7 vs 3 are bad odds no matter how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowCastle Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 He frog-ed him. http://i.imgur.com/TPuwpX7.pngLove <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecnut Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Um, it's called the magic of numbers. 7 vs 3. That's more than a two-one advantage. I don't care how good a knight you are, it's difficult to survive two or three weapons coming at you at once from different directions. That those three Kingsguard knights killed five out of the seven pretty much demonstrates how good you are, and Ned and company were no slouches. Oh please... Barristan Selmy killed several goldcloaks while unarmed when he was dismissed from the Kingsguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecnut Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Oh please... Barristan Selmy killed several goldcloaks while unarmed when he was dismissed from the Kingsguard. and that's given his old age! Those 3 were in their prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Oh please... Barristan Selmy killed several goldcloaks while unarmed when he was dismissed from the Kingsguard. Gerold Hightower and Oswell Whent are not Barristan Selmy, and those undefined goldcloaks were not Ned and his party. Additionally, those goldcloaks had orders to arrest Barristan. Barristan had no such restraints placed on him. And as others have pointed out, the goldcloaks are not knights, they are generally commoners with no prior training and no probable experience beyond basic police work against other commoners in Kings Landing. and that's given his old age! Those 3 were in their prime Gerold Hightower was not in his prime, he was very likely well over 50 years old given he was Lord Commander during the reign of Jaeherys II. Simple fact is numbers count for a lot in a fight, chances are Gerold and Oswell were facing two men each. That the 3 KG nearly won in the first place is a testament to their ability; but they are NOT infallible and there is no proof whatsoever that they lost because of magic. Of Ned's party, we know literally nothing about any of their fighting abilities so it's silly to assume they were all Joe Averages with Ned being saved by Dues Ex Magica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzochris01 Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 It's not worth arguing over. We'll find out in due course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vikingkingq Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Oh please... Barristan Selmy killed several goldcloaks while unarmed when he was dismissed from the Kingsguard. Goldcloaks are barely trained policemen. Not veteran knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Oh please... Barristan Selmy killed several goldcloaks while unarmed when he was dismissed from the Kingsguard. Ned Stark, Howland Reed, William Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull and Mark Ryswell, all whom are veteran warriors are stiffer competition than "several" Goldcloaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmnomnomPomelo Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Gerold Hightower had to be really old at that time since he's the uncle of Leyton Hightower. Plus it's never sure that 3 Kingsguards can defeat 7 Northerners.For example Aemon the Dragonknight who told to be a great knight died against 2 Toynes who wanted to kill Aegon IV. Or Sandor Clegane who's a fuckin monster in the terms of strength nearly lost to 2 men of Gregor plus a squire (yes I know he was drunk, but still), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Cold Fingers Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Howland Reed used his magic, Kermit, on Arthur Dayne. JCRB captured the moment beautifully! Dawn & Ice locked in battle; Dawn was about to take down Ice...but Dawn forgot one thing. Dawn is no match for Kermit the Frog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Widow of Coldmoat Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Well, it wasn't just a couple other guys. It was 7vs3 and 6 of 7 of those were knights and lords who had trained their entire lives and presumably were not taken to the TOJ for their pleasant company. However, that aside it is still a decent possibility that he tried to warg him causing Arthur some serious confusion/dementia. We are never given any sort of indication that Howland Reed is a skinchanger, are we? His children don't seem to be, after all. Aside from that, would honorable Ned Stark be so fond of Howland Reed if he used particularly underhanded means to defeat Arthur Dayne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryanfury Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 Dawn and Ice... The Last Hero was a Dayne with Dawn (Lightbringer) who killed the Stark Night's King with the original Ice :idea: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin's Roost Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 yea no magic.just 7x3. also five of the seven died. if he was using magic wouldn't the rest of them live?why would he wait until just ned was left. also Gerold Hightower was like 50 at this point I think. still a good fighter but not top in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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