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Howland Reed must of used magic at the battle at the Tower of Joy.


Pecnut

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Well, it wasn't just a couple other guys. It was 7vs3 and 6 of 7 of those were knights and lords who had trained their entire lives and presumably were not taken to the TOJ for their pleasant company. However, that aside it is still a decent possibility that he tried to warg him causing Arthur some serious confusion/dementia.


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I believe that GRRM included the scene with Meera Reed ensnaring Bran's direwolf Summer with a net to illustrate that Crannogmen use unconventional methods in battle. This information is enough to explain how Howland Reed helped Ned overcome Arthur Dane at The Tower of Joy. I don't think the use of magic is necessary to explain the defeat of the Sword of the Morning.


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Um, it's called the magic of numbers. 7 vs 3. That's more than a two-one advantage. I don't care how good a knight you are, it's difficult to survive two or three weapons coming at you at once from different directions. That those three Kingsguard knights killed five out of the seven pretty much demonstrates how good you are, and Ned and company were no slouches.


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1 - Gerold was possibly very old by then so all three King's guard were not necessarily super elite like Dayne. These guys serve for life. Doesn't mean that they are the best for life! Not everyone is like Barristan or Bernard Hopkins, by their 40s most warriors have lost a few steps...



2 - For some bizarre reason (honor?!) the King's guard let Ned's men walk right up to them and corner them against the wall of the Tower of Joy. If you have some experience in hand to hand combat, you know that this is not ideal... It's hard to fight effectively against the ropes.



3 - And really, 7 vs 3 are bad odds no matter how you look at it.


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Um, it's called the magic of numbers. 7 vs 3. That's more than a two-one advantage. I don't care how good a knight you are, it's difficult to survive two or three weapons coming at you at once from different directions. That those three Kingsguard knights killed five out of the seven pretty much demonstrates how good you are, and Ned and company were no slouches.

Oh please... Barristan Selmy killed several goldcloaks while unarmed when he was dismissed from the Kingsguard.

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Oh please... Barristan Selmy killed several goldcloaks while unarmed when he was dismissed from the Kingsguard.

Gerold Hightower and Oswell Whent are not Barristan Selmy, and those undefined goldcloaks were not Ned and his party. Additionally, those goldcloaks had orders to arrest Barristan. Barristan had no such restraints placed on him. And as others have pointed out, the goldcloaks are not knights, they are generally commoners with no prior training and no probable experience beyond basic police work against other commoners in Kings Landing.

and that's given his old age! Those 3 were in their prime

Gerold Hightower was not in his prime, he was very likely well over 50 years old given he was Lord Commander during the reign of Jaeherys II.

Simple fact is numbers count for a lot in a fight, chances are Gerold and Oswell were facing two men each. That the 3 KG nearly won in the first place is a testament to their ability; but they are NOT infallible and there is no proof whatsoever that they lost because of magic. Of Ned's party, we know literally nothing about any of their fighting abilities so it's silly to assume they were all Joe Averages with Ned being saved by Dues Ex Magica

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Oh please... Barristan Selmy killed several goldcloaks while unarmed when he was dismissed from the Kingsguard.

Ned Stark, Howland Reed, William Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull and Mark Ryswell, all whom are veteran warriors are stiffer competition than "several" Goldcloaks.

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Gerold Hightower had to be really old at that time since he's the uncle of Leyton Hightower. Plus it's never sure that 3 Kingsguards can defeat 7 Northerners.


For example Aemon the Dragonknight who told to be a great knight died against 2 Toynes who wanted to kill Aegon IV. Or Sandor Clegane who's a fuckin monster in the terms of strength nearly lost to 2 men of Gregor plus a squire (yes I know he was drunk, but still), etc.


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Well, it wasn't just a couple other guys. It was 7vs3 and 6 of 7 of those were knights and lords who had trained their entire lives and presumably were not taken to the TOJ for their pleasant company. However, that aside it is still a decent possibility that he tried to warg him causing Arthur some serious confusion/dementia.

We are never given any sort of indication that Howland Reed is a skinchanger, are we? His children don't seem to be, after all. Aside from that, would honorable Ned Stark be so fond of Howland Reed if he used particularly underhanded means to defeat Arthur Dayne?

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