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Keeping Aegon from Daenerys and Viserys?


Isobel Harper

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Err, what? If you have a respectable source that shows that under agnatic primogeniture the line of the eldest son inherits the claim even if they die before being instated as king please quote or link to it.


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Viserys comes first in the line of succession, since Rhaegar died before Aerys and Aerys didn't abdicate. At least officially.

Aerys had three children: Rhaegar, Viserys, and Dany.

Aerys died. Rhaegar became king. Rhaegar died, his son Aegon became king. Aegon died, Viserys became king, as he's the surviving son of Aerys.

The oldest SON of the king takes over. Had Rhaegar become king, then died, leaving a pregnant wife, Viserys would have to wait to find out if the baby was a boy or a girl. If it turned out to be a girl, then Viserys would become king. If a boy, Viserys is simply the uncle of the king.

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Nope, Rhaegar was killed at the Trident. Tywin rushes to King's Landing - Aerys orders to open the gates after being persuaded by Pycelle (so he was alive, though with Martin we cannot be certain) - Tywin sacks the city and Jaime kills Aerys.



Viserys becomes King, unless Facebookless Man is right and the whole line of the firstborn supersedes the second son before the firstborn is actually being instated.


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Any examples in aSoIaF? The counterexample that springs to my mind is Aegon the Unlikely - he had a nephew who by all rights should have been crowned king, but the council chose Aegon instead for practical reasons. But perhaps this is an abnormality...?

Regardless, I don't see how Illyrio and Varys would truly think that Aegon and Viserys would get along and support one another, even initially. Especially if Aegon has a better claim to the throne. I can't imagine Viserys being very happy about it.

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Nope, Rhaegar was killed at the Trident. Tywin rushes to King's Landing - Aerys orders to open the gates after being persuaded by Pycelle (so he was alive, though with Martin we cannot be certain) - Tywin sacks the city and Jaime kills Aerys.

Viserys becomes King, unless Facebookless Man is right and the whole line of the firstborn supersedes the second son before the firstborn is actually being instated.

oops, I'm confused about the timeline. I thought that Rhaegar died after Aerys. Anyhow, wiki cognatic primogeniture: "older sons and their lines come before younger sons and their lines." So yes, the male line of the firstborn son supersedes the second son and his children.

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"older sons and their lines come before younger sons and their lines." So yes, the male line of the firstborn son supersedes the second son and his children.

I know the wiki page (I've never cared for succession laws, but I've asked posters who seemed knowledgable in the matter when I joined this forum and after they discussed it, I thought the matter was settled on Viserys being rightful heir, up to now.) the problem that I'm having is wether you're quoted sentence says that the firstborn male line inherits even if the heir apparent dies before he actually succeeds to the throne. I've looked through the list of heirs apparent that died before succeeding on wikipedia, but I couldn't find a case that fit.

ETA: Okay, it seems you're right.

Bran Ch. 35, Clash.

"Don't be stupid," his cousin said. "The sons of the first son come before the second son. Ser Ryman is next in line, and then Edwyn and Black Walder and Petyr Pimple. And then Aegon and all his sons."

So despite Walder being still alive and lord his second son Emmon does not become heir when his first son Stevron died, but Stevron's eldest son Ryman and since his eldest son Edwyn doesn't have a son yet, Black Walder is next in line.

That's stupid, there'll be a lot of child rulers.

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Illyrio and Varys needed a distraction they did not anticipate Ned and the North rising in revolt that was just a bonus



I believe Daenerys was to wed the horse lord while bringing Illyrio his distraction and a potential ally



With Illyrio's plan everything is about pe



Danny was to bring a threat to the IT, they anticipated Robert and his ego to round up an army and leave Westeros to fight the Dothraki



He probably anticipated ships scattering some guys being captured by slavers and all the stuff we have seen no to mention half the army being wiped out



While Robert's army is away i believe Varys and Illyrio planned on having the Golden Company do what they always do, strike up a Blackfyre Rebellion



I forget the time line but maybe the assination attempt on Dany was ment to bring the Dothraki to Illyrio for revenge where he would use that to his advantage probably not matching up time wise it's been a while



Meanwhile Khal Drogo dies and Dany has Dragon's hatch so she is now a great marriage match for Aegon with her army and Westeros torn in rebellion



Illyrio dispatches Barristan to protect Dany



We all know the rest she gets caught up in war and Tyrion convinces Aegon not to wait any longer so he can kill Cersei and make Tyrion a free man which is clever



Aegon takes the company which i believe the General Harry Strickland knows about the 16 year old plan of Illyrio, Varys and Myles Toyne to put a Blackfyre on the IT




It is important to acknowledge how clever Illyrio and Varys are to give everything a Westeros feeling for Illyrio it is all about perception.



This brings me to Daenerys and the 3 eggs i was puzzled forever on this but the more i fall in love with Illyrio's character the more i realize he had to up authenticate Daenerys to Khal Drogo as an exotic Dragon Princess from across the Narrow sea when really she was dirt poor. I figure the nice clothes, a Knight from Westeros and chest full of eggs for her to display gave her a certain appeal and hyped her Dragon Princess image up a great deal.



We see Illyrio do this with Aegon a lot, he get's Rhaegar's close friend and former hand of the king to raise and train Aegon to me no one would question Jon Connington on Aegon's identity he brings a certain legitimate feeling to Aegon. I have a feeling Aegon was going to be gifted with Blackfyre maybe some dragon eggs and probably one of his mothers hand maidens who is Septa Lemore. Tyrion suspects everyone on the boat with Aegon to be more than they appear to be long and short of it is Illyrio is surrounding Aegon with as many Westerosi nobles as he can to make him appear authentic rather than foreign.



The Golden Company is made up of several names once held in high regard and associated with the Targaryens, the Strongs, Lothstons, Stricklands and most likely Tristan Rivers is the bastard cousin to the Darry's the Targaryen's most loyal house who will probably hld the best claim on Darry.


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There is some serious confusion about triarch Nyessos. He is an elephant and Illyrio supposedly gave him enough gold to buy him eight times over. What did Illyrio require from Nyessos? By that time, they were assuming that Dany was coming to Volantis and fAegon was supposed to give her the GC as a wedding gift.



We should also remember that the Volantene had no idea why the GC broke their contract with Myr, came to Volantis and camped outside the city; much less they had any idea about fAegon.



There is enmity between Volantis and Dany because of her abolitionist campaign. Did Illyrio require Nyessos to not mess with Dany when she comes and even provide transport to Westeros for her army combined with the GC?



This is the most basic explanation and from the talks of various characters, I get that Volantis was supposed to provide the ships for Westeros after the marriage of fAegon and Dany. I am sure that JonCon knew the same. Yet he thought that the gold Illyrio gave to Nyessos for this job is eight times the normal price. Or with this excessive gold, Nyessos had other tasks unknown to JonCon.



We also learn that the Yunkish envoy (Grazdan mo Eraz - the one whose tokar was burned by Drogon) bought Nyessos as well and the only thing he required from him can be to have Volantis join the war against Meereen, which they did.



But Volantis also provided the ships to carry the GC West.



In short, what are we to make from Nyessos being bought by both Illyrio and Grazdan?


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I also think this is it.

You can easily tell that the Dothraki invasion, at least the iteration we see described in the first book, was never meant to succeed. Robert thinks Drogo has 100K men, but he really only offers Viserys 10K. At most he only has 40K. Robert is expecting to face up to 10 times as many fighters as may actually come, assuming they all even make it over.

If Varys actually wanted Robert to lose to the Dothraki, why highball the number so much? If anything he should've lowballed it so Robert isn't as prepared.

So Viserys and Dany are set up to wage an invasion that was never going to succeed, and Robert prevails but is in a much weaker position due to losses, pillaging, whatever. In comes Aegon to save the day.

I agree. But well.. if you believe (as you've stated) that aegon was suppose to "save the day" it still does not make that much sense to [over]prepare Robbie, since then they would probably be able to "fix" it before/without having Aegon being the hero.

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I still do not believe that a Dothraki invasion was really planned by Varys/Illyrio. How does this look? The last Targaryens are bringing "godless savages" to create suffering and make the Realm hate the Targaryens once more but later the son of their beloved prince comes back from the dead to claim the IT. Since the last two Targaryens will have ended in madness and suffering to the Realm, how can fAegon expect to gather support? How will the people and Lords alike believe that fAegon does not have the taint?

Yep! Could not agree more.

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