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How exactly did Rhaegar lose to Robert Baratheon?


Pecnut

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How is it that every thread discussing Hammer Time devolves into a slug fest between posters discussing How Robert a douche for sleeping with so many and Rhaegar was some Snow White like Silver Prince for sleeping with only two women? You sleep with two or you sleep with twenty you are betraying and cheating on your spouse anyway.

Because it's hard for the ladies to hate on a silver haired, purple eyed boy band member (for some guys too).

Also this nonsense about Robert being pissed or having more adrenaline than Rhaegar just serves to unfairly discredit Robert's skills. If your adrenaline isn't pumping in a fight to the death then too bad for you.

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You also have to take note of Robert's strength, in his prime he was stronger than even The Mountain.

Even with that considered, it appears, from Rhaegar's great jousting ability (i.e. It seemed as if no lance could touch him) that he was lithe and quick (Which seems generally the build of Targaryens). So the battle was between brute force on one side and on the other, great speed and maneuvering abilities. I'd say it was very closely equal, hard to say who was better if any of them was at all.

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Even with that considered, it appears, from Rhaegar's great jousting ability (i.e. It seemed as if no lance could touch him) that he was lithe and quick (Which seems generally the build of Targaryens). So the battle was between brute force on one side and on the other, great speed and maneuvering abilities. I'd say it was very closely equal, hard to say who was better if any of them was at all.

Rhaegar must have got in some blows, as to make Bobby injured enough to not lead the Army , but not near death {Bobby did send his maesters to Barry},. On the other hand Bobby may have landed only one solid blow,which in the end proved decisive.

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Oh Goodie! A Rhaegar and Robert thread!

In the end, Rhaegar played the harp and had purple eyes and silver hair. Robert can be as tall as he wants. He's already lost to pure beauty. :cool4:

Accurate :lol:

That's something I don't like about the comparisons between Robert and Rhaegar. Personally, those are a bit sexist. If someone says that Arya is more of a woman than Sansa because she's a warrior, shenanigans would ensue. Ditto if someone uses sexuality as a way to measure who is more a women between two adult female characters. I never like this neo-culture of the bros... "yeah, we fuck and smash... we're awesome, we're maaaan". I like masculine men as any other would and delicate guys kill my mood, but being a masculine man doesn't make a man either. It's like the fact Rhaegar was more a scholar and a musician make him less than Robert. Robert fucked everything that moves, so he's more of a men.

Or maybe is because Robert participated in tourneys. Robert angry, Robert smashes. Maybe Rhaegar didn't participate because he knew that some would let him win or worst, some other would praise him even if he ended up in last place. Robert didn't mind as long as he could smash some skulls and be applauded for that. Maybe Rhaegar practised quietly in Dragonstone with Arthur Dayne or some other knight of the KG.

Yes, Robert won and killed Rhaegar but if we consider all we know about them, without any speculations, Rhaegar was the real man while Robert was the boy. Even when they both eventually cheated (technically), Rhaegar didn't let a bunch of kids all over Westeros who probably never got to live three years because they starved. His own children died after he himself was defeated and killed.

Very well put.

I hate this kind of comparison too because it enforces silly gender roles and the type of thinking that supposes a real man drinks bear with breakfast and has a gun on his table, while a guy who reads, likes music and is mostly a family guy is a "sissy". And like you said, just like comparing Arya to Sansa saying that A is better because she's a tough feminist or Sansa is better because she's more feminine, doing that type of comparisons is not alright either.

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Rhaegar must have got in some blows, as to make Bobby injured enough to not lead the Army , but not near death {Bobby did send his maesters to Barry},. On the other hand Bobby may have landed only one solid blow,which in the end proved decisive.

Their levels do not necessarily decide their fates. Jaime is considered the best swordsman alive (after the deaths of the rest of the KG and now that Selmy is super old) but he was sometimes defeated by Loras, who was also good but probably not as good as Jaime. What I want to say is that they were on pretty close levels and I'm unsure who was actually better, but many other factors are in play, when it comes to a real battle.

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Accurate :lol:

Very well put.

I hate this kind of comparison too because it enforces silly gender roles and the type of thinking that supposes a real man drinks bear with breakfast and has a gun on his table, while a guy who reads, likes music and is mostly a family guy is a "sissy". And like you said, just like comparing Arya to Sansa saying that A is better because she's a tough feminist or Sansa is better because she's more feminine, doing that type of comparisons is not alright either.

But those types of posters are also provoked {perhaps unintentionally} by some posters who say Rhaegar sleeping with two women is alright{becoz true luvv} but Robert is a pig and what not. When you {not you you} go down that path, sexist comments are bound to fly.

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Their levels do not necessarily decide their fates. Jaime is considered the best swordsman alive (after the deaths of the rest of the KG and now that Selmy is super old) but he was sometimes defeated by Loras, who was also good but probably not as good as Jaime. What I want to say is that they were on pretty close levels and I'm unsure who was actually better, but many other factors are in play, when it comes to a real battle.

Jaime was unhorsed by Loras in Tourney {where knights used a lance from horseback, not a sword}, but I don't recall them ever crossing swords, not even in practice. Lancing in a tourney is not as tough {although perhaps more skilled task} as sword fighting.

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Robert belongs to the same society Oberyn and many other men do, and according to Cat, it's expected for them to take care of their bastards. And she's not wrong nor is exaggerating:

Roose Bolton

Walder Frey

Hyle Hunt

"Ned Stark"

Gerion Lannister

Ronnet Connington

Auranne's father

Euron (for God's sake... Euron!)

Unless they have a tracker on their semen, which activates after conception, they definitely returned for his children, even if they were fathered by prostitutes after one night stands. Unless of course, you assume all of the mothers are highborns, which I doubt. Obara's mother definitely was not.

Euron kills one of his basterds, and Oberyn beat the mother of one of his childs and took her away from her. But, then, he of course gets the Oberyn bonus...

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Yes, Robert won and killed Rhaegar but if we consider all we know about them, without any speculations, Rhaegar was the real man while Robert was the boy. Even when they both eventually cheated (technically), Rhaegar didn't let a bunch of kids all over Westeros who probably never got to live three years because they starved. His own children died after he himself was defeated and killed.

So you critize someone saying one is more of a man than the other and then do the same thing in the same post... we don't no much about Rhaegar. He might have been a spoiled brat who wanted to play war as well as the hero many people think he is.

And what do you mean by "technically"? They both cheated, that's a fact. The difference is Robert's own wife and children weren't threatened by his whoring.

All Robert abandoned were women he fucked, big deal! He never let these women threat the legal status of his wife. on the other hand Rhaegar abandoned was his wife and children from a legal marriage, this is a big difference

In this scenario Rhaegar is much more like Aegon IV. than Robert.

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